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  1. #151
    Astonishing Member Joker's Avatar
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    I wondered if anyone else thought that about [REDACTED] in [REDACTED]'s grave.

  2. #152

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    spoilers:
    I interpreted Roger's "sorry" as "I'm sorry to drag you out of the peace you've found here," and Hellboy taking his hand as a "Yeah, but it had to be done."
    end of spoilers

  3. #153
    Astonishing Member Joker's Avatar
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    spoilers:
    Do you think he's in Roger's body? I wondered if that was the case, but I'm also not sure what Hellboy's corporeal situation in Hell was, exactly.

    He was a physical demon summoned to the Earthly plane. But his body crumbled when he died, yet we see his physical form fall to Hell. Everyone else seems physical in Hell... even if their physical appearance shifts.

    I never worried about it during the book, but now I'm curious. I'm probably over thinking it. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
    end of spoilers

  4. #154
    Mighty Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joker View Post
    spoilers:
    Do you think he's in Roger's body? I wondered if that was the case, but I'm also not sure what Hellboy's corporeal situation in Hell was, exactly.

    He was a physical demon summoned to the Earthly plane. But his body crumbled when he died, yet we see his physical form fall to Hell. Everyone else seems physical in Hell... even if their physical appearance shifts.

    I never worried about it during the book, but now I'm curious. I'm probably over thinking it. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
    end of spoilers
    The meeting with Roger hinted at why Hellboy showed up in Roger's grave, but the reflection in the mirror definitively illustrated that it was Roger's body. It was the same when Johan was possessed by the Lobster, to everyone else he looked like the Lobster but in the reflection of the car window we saw Johan.

    As for whether Hellboy was corporeal in Hell, I'd say that in that realm the spirit is physical so as far as it goes they are solid.

  5. #155
    Incredible Member Kees_L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    The meeting with Roger hinted at why Hellboy showed up in Roger's grave, but the reflection in the mirror definitively illustrated that it was Roger's body. It was the same when Johan was possessed by the Lobster, to everyone else he looked like the Lobster but in the reflection of the car window we saw Johan.

    As for whether Hellboy was corporeal in Hell, I'd say that in that realm the spirit is physical so as far as it goes they are solid.
    Well "corporeal or not corporeal", I think it's more about either leading one's life or losing all capacity to lead in death.

    I think that all the 'normal folk' whom Hellboy encounters in Hell consider themselves all dead and gone as well as no longer capable of leading their own lives.

    Whereas on the other hand Hellboy in Hell encounters some of his kin as well as apparently Satan. And eventhough Hellboy wasn't planning to or wanting to himself, he slays those dead seemingly irreversibly.

    Which makes me wonder whether the storytelling as such, has Hellboy himself be also not really his own living self any longer, in the sense that in Hell all Hellboy wants or has wanted is only rest or the being functionally over and done with at least? Like once he dies (in 'Hellboy: Strange Places') Hellboy's life isn't depicted any longer, but instead only outcomes are.

    And Hellboy re-emerging specifically through the body or grave of Roger (who was destined to help Hellboy in the words of Queen Mab in 'Hellboy: The Fury') makes it so that Hellboy isn't simply back in his own true self as carrying on at his life. Hellboy appears more rather "stolen out of death" by destiny or what pending Doom needing him to.

    To me that seems the case at least. That Hellboy is stolen and not back alive since Hellboy himself wouldn't even WANT to be alive, as he himself considers himself done.
    I think this could be to service the further storytelling a whole lot, as it might show for one that Hellboy and his destiny would and could be two different things, that Hellboy's person could come full circle as well as his destiny - even should they not align or appear to match up?

    EDIT: When I think of how mr Mike Mignola talks about his work, he seems to say he's about comics, not claiming himself 'a writer', he says Hellboy is his thing, allowing him to draw and tell stories about monsters, or that if it weren't for others beside himself, the B.P.R.D. might never have become a title of its own or as explored as it has been. Even within the storytelling it seems mr Mike fleshes out what would be the protagonist in Hellboy next to what would be Hellboy's own person more rather - almost as if Hellboy and other characters would inform mr Mike on what to draw or tell and what not to. As if the storytelling should display itself as a developing thing more rather than anything fashioned or orchestrated perfectly it would seem. Like the titles don't depict anything tailored to suit but something meant to go where it will.
    In this light it could be that Hellboy in Hell comprizes and concludes what Hellboy the comic title amounts to - with however leaving stuff to wonder over - yet now also the B.P.R.D. as a title is set to conclude, with Hellboy having some part in it still. Sounding way too complicated or at least wordy how I say it but on the whole it's striking me as pretty fundamental and unique. Like the stuff of beauty.
    Last edited by Kees_L; 05-13-2018 at 07:10 AM.
    SLINT / Mike Mignola / Walt Whitman / Arthur Louriť / Dr. Pepper

  6. #156
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    I think Mike Mignola brought Hellboy to the end of the story he wanted to tell. I love that he’s dipping back in here and there, because Mike’s Hellboy is the best Hellboy. This final B.P.R.D cycle is supposedly an ending to the overarching story of Hellboy’s world. Whether that’s some great cataclysm or whether it ends with a redemption for the earth, and what part our beloved characters play in that is what we’re here for.

  7. #157
    Mighty Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zerodemon View Post
    I think Mike Mignola brought Hellboy to the end of the story he wanted to tell. I love that he’s dipping back in here and there, because Mike’s Hellboy is the best Hellboy. This final B.P.R.D cycle is supposedly an ending to the overarching story of Hellboy’s world. Whether that’s some great cataclysm or whether it ends with a redemption for the earth, and what part our beloved characters play in that is what we’re here for.
    Yeah, you really get the feeling that with Hellboy back that the train is quickly running out of track. It's a little sad, but also terribly exciting.

  8. #158

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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    Yeah, you really get the feeling that with Hellboy back that the train is quickly running out of track. It's a little sad, but also terribly exciting.
    A 24-year train. Quite a run so far!

  9. #159
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    Am I the only one who's not feeling this? I've loved the entire Mignolaverse with the exception of the Abe series and now this feels just as off. I should be in awe right now but the characters just feel dead. I miss John Arcudi so badly, he knew how to lit the characters on fire. I really hope Mignola takes over. It's not bad but i'm realising it's the story rather than the writing right now that is making me enjoy this arc. I'm still enjoying it and i'm hopeful but I was also hopeful for Abe and looking back it never really improved even with 30 issues. I've also been enjoying Chris Roberson's writing on the other Mignolaverse project. He's not perfect but he reminds me of Arcudi. Maybe he could step in to help?
    Last edited by fred25_ca; 05-15-2018 at 07:31 AM.

  10. #160
    Spectacular Member The Cheat's Avatar
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    Not really enjoying the abrupt endings to the issues. If you're going to publish the story in a serialised fashion, at least make an attempt to structure the series that way, don't just insert 'to be continued' every 20 pages.

  11. #161
    Mighty Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cheat View Post
    Not really enjoying the abrupt endings to the issues. If you're going to publish the story in a serialised fashion, at least make an attempt to structure the series that way, don't just insert 'to be continued' every 20 pages.
    Yeah, that's something I've really felt strongly about with this newest cycle; the pacing in each issue is slightly off making the endings seem unfinished and the various side plots fragmented. It's definitely one of those books that feels like it will read ten times better in trade.

  12. #162
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Thanks for the discussion here. I am a bit lost in some parts as to what is going on (I didn't read the Abe series) and I did not pick up on some subtleties. Also they do a lot of not quite saying what is going on. And sometimes it seems you need every issue memorized.
    But I do want to see how this all ends.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  13. #163
    Incredible Member Kees_L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fred25_ca View Post
    Am I the only one who's not feeling this? I've loved the entire Mignolaverse with the exception of the Abe series and now this feels just as off. I should be in awe right now but the characters just feel dead. I miss John Arcudi so badly, he knew how to lit the characters on fire. I really hope Mignola takes over. It's not bad but i'm realising it's the story rather than the writing right now that is making me enjoy this arc. I'm still enjoying it and i'm hopeful but I was also hopeful for Abe and looking back it never really improved even with 30 issues. I've also been enjoying Chris Roberson's writing on the other Mignolaverse project. He's not perfect but he reminds me of Arcudi. Maybe he could step in to help?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Cheat View Post
    Not really enjoying the abrupt endings to the issues. If you're going to publish the story in a serialised fashion, at least make an attempt to structure the series that way, don't just insert 'to be continued' every 20 pages.
    I've been a steady and complete follower since basically the start. And for both the Hellboy title and the B.P.R.D. title mini-series or one-shots came out as either close-continuity or flashbacks or as spin-off stuff like Lobster / Witchfinder / Frankenstein Underground.

    Some titles straight up by mr Mike without other writers (Hellboy) although some books specifically written for others on art duties (Hellboy, Witchfinder, etc).
    Whereas all B.P.R.D. titles appear creative projects from (often mainstaying) other writers (like Josh Dysart, John Arcudi, Scott Allie) and art talents with Mike Mignola listed as creator but apparently with him as "phone-in" instigator/overseer nonetheless.

    Leading to a steady, captivating and diverse range of books, although as a reader I too have been experiencing weird distance or unstraightforwardness with particularly the steadier or longer running "close-continuity" titles like ongoing B.P.R.D. and Abe Sapien.

    For me it's like one moment I'm closely and lovely painstakingly following Daimio chasing Daryl or a mummie named Panya and the next minute I won't see them for years on end.
    I think I hugely like agent Howards or the strange Varvara but at the same time I'm still half wondering about Daryl or where Liz is or Panya. Plus there's Doom going on. And new kids or new agents seem so new and different.
    Which seems all about what makes Hellboy's World so typical and great. Like I feel NO COMPLAINTS. Yet at the same time I'm not feeling Fenix or Ashley Strode or new Abe one bit plus I weirdly urge doom to take off already. Like if Hellboy's done then bring it on.

    I'm kinda hoping the all encompassing Apocalyptic threat of Death for all is gonna tighten the bond if the title B.P.R.D. and with it Hellboy's world is coming to a close. Like I'm down for the ride with hoping the ending will be something.

    So I'm full of praise for all the Mignola books although I haven't gotten into new Abe or Fenix and much of the latest Bureau bits but I'm hoping I can still manage once the B.P.R.D. will be all wrapped up once and for all.
    Last edited by Kees_L; 05-16-2018 at 06:00 AM.
    SLINT / Mike Mignola / Walt Whitman / Arthur Louriť / Dr. Pepper

  14. #164
    Astonishing Member Joker's Avatar
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    Maybe because it was Allie, I had low expectations going in, but I haven't really had any problems with the book. I'm just curious to see where they're taking things.

    There is a certain amount of not knowing all of what's going on because I didn't read the Abe series. I guess I wish that book was billed as a little more integral than it was. Felt like sort of a side series, but not it seems it's very important going forward. Which I think is a little unfair to readers? Not that I mind the interconnectedness of these books, but.

  15. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joker View Post
    Maybe because it was Allie, I had low expectations going in, but I haven't really had any problems with the book. I'm just curious to see where they're taking things.

    There is a certain amount of not knowing all of what's going on because I didn't read the Abe series. I guess I wish that book was billed as a little more integral than it was. Felt like sort of a side series, but not it seems it's very important going forward. Which I think is a little unfair to readers? Not that I mind the interconnectedness of these books, but.
    That's the reason Dark Horse got those Abe Sapien: Dark and Terrible omnibuses out there as quickly as possible, so people could catch up easily. That's why the second volume came out just prior to the release of the first B.P.R.D.: The Devil You Know trade.

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