Nightwing #16 preview/Discussion

[yash]

I think Seeley could have appeased both sides of the fan base, but he dropped the ball on Bludhaven. I think there definitely is way to balance it out. I mean you can have some spy stuff in Bludhaven, and then you can have an on going spy subplot and vice versa. I like the alternating arcs, but if youre gonna do that it needs to be consistent. Like you cant just only put your best foot forward with the spy stuff and slack on bludhaven and vice versa. because i think that will cause fans to drop you know? I think itd be better to incorporate both themes in every arc. and to have the arcs connect through out, maybe some arcs can focus more on a certain theme than others. i wouldnt mind having Cass and Tim back.



Well, Bludhaven was supposed to be what gotham was to batman. But like i said, it never really got established. Dixon's run was pretty good, but outside of that Bludhaven is kinda boring. I know Dick has lived in other places, but alot of people liked him in Bludhaven, so i think its fair to assume that Bludhaven was supposed to be Dick's home and the editors treat Bludhaven as such. I think if a writer did Bludhaven right, it would be more a fan favorite to the Grayson people, but you cant appease everyone. Thats why were talking about combining the two popular ideas into one which can def be done. We just need a GOOD writer to combine the two in a way that makes sense. A good writer can take a boring concept and transform it into something great, thats what nightwing's solo run needs, thats what Bludhaven needs.

I mean idk i can only speak for myself but the BLudhaven arc was just bad lol but i have seen alot of people talking about dick being OOC. I really want his blocbkuster arc to wow me, but i also said i wanted Bludhaven to wow me and look where that got me lol. I just wish we got more established side characters and such, that would have made the arc more enjoyable.



Too alot of fans, bludhaven is apart of his character. Its the whole reason why people were calling for him to return to bludhaven in rebirth, if there wasnt such a big outcry for it, Dick would stll be doing grayson stuff. No writer outside of Dixon really has been able to write a good Bludhaven story and establish dick there. Bludhaven has alot of untapped potential for Dick but for some reason the writers never use it. I do agree on the being given and job and his side characters though. The job thing was a little much for me as i think dick would be more suited as a humanitarian or something not to do with Social Work. I could see him starting his own charity or something, but i cant see him actually holding down a 9-5 job. His side characters were almost non existent and boring. There was legit nothing added to the bludhaven arc to make it interesting. Even the villain was boring. But thats what im talking about though, Bludhaven is just written boring because the writers are just lazy with it. Seeley could have done something Grand with bludhaven but he didnt, thats on him. Like i said there is so much untapped potential there, the writers just need to use it. But i think the fact that rebirth is leading up to that huge cross over event, that is probably the reason they didnt have established side characters and boring plots :/ Im hoping they will do a new cannon after rebirth, but idk

you are factually wrong if you think we went from Grayson to NW because there was big enough outcry for it lol like i said Grayson was selling well it was a critically acclaimed book the only reason we are getting NW is because DC wanted to do a line wide dc reboot called a rebirth where we are going to have an old status quo for all of the characters with Titans and JSA and everything in between there is no titans without NW hence the revisiting like why would you cancel a book that is critical and commercial success and is generating a good buzz unless you have an objective bigger then Grayson well they did they wanted a line vise revisitation of the past because they dropped the ball with the new 52 so they did a reboot simple really

[Comicgirl78]

you are factually wrong if you think we went from Grayson to NW because there was big enough outcry for it lol like i said Grayson was selling well it was a critically acclaimed book the only reason we are getting NW is because DC wanted to do a line wide dc reboot called a rebirth where we are going to have an old status quo for all of the characters with Titans and JSA and everything in between there is no titans without NW hence the revisiting like why would you cancel a book that is critical and commercial success and is generating a good buzz unless you have an objective bigger then Grayson well they did they wanted a line vise revisitation of the past because they dropped the ball with the new 52 so they did a reboot simple really

Im not factually wrong, alot of people wanted dick back in his costume and in bludhaven, whether or not that is the true reason why he is backin bludhaven, idk, but i know the part about fans wanting him there is true. Grayson was selling well, but that doesnt mean people dint want him back. Like i said, when people think of Dick they think of Nightwing not a Spy. Grayson no doubt has a good fan following, but from what ive been reading, alot of people preferred for him to be back in bludhaven. Rebirth was meant to fix the mess that was n52 but its not lol especially considering the events in n52 still happened and elements of Grayson are still alive in rebirth. Im sure they will reboot again after rebirth :/

[JasonTodd428]

you are factually wrong if you think we went from Grayson to NW because there was big enough outcry for it lol like i said Grayson was selling well it was a critically acclaimed book the only reason we are getting NW is because DC wanted to do a line wide dc reboot called a rebirth where we are going to have an old status quo for all of the characters with Titans and JSA and everything in between there is no titans without NW hence the revisiting like why would you cancel a book that is critical and commercial success and is generating a good buzz unless you have an objective bigger then Grayson well they did they wanted a line vise revisitation of the past because they dropped the ball with the new 52 so they did a reboot simple really

Nostalgia is exactly why they suddenly shoved Dick back in the Nightwing even though Grayson was doing decent numbers, was critically acclaimed and the writers had a long run planned. It's also why Dick is back in a Titans book again with one of his old teams, why the suit he wears now is blue, why Deathstroke's history with Dick and the Titans is back and why Nightwing has returned to Bludhaven. Grayson wasn't scrapped because of any kind of fan outcry; it was scrapped because of Rebirth just as a lot of storylines were scrapped or rushed to a conclusion right before the N52 happened.

[Alycat]

Its twice now that Dick has been yanked from being something better than Nightwing ( Batman and Agent 37) to go back. It sucks too, since those are his best runs. I have no clue why people want him back in Bludhaven outside of nostalgia and familiarity. It should've stayed dead and buried like it did after being bombed Pre-52. Nightwing fans are quite the divided bunch, but at least most of us should agree that the blue suit is better than the red.

[yash]

Its twice now that Dick has been yanked from being something better than Nightwing ( Batman and Agent 37) to go back. It sucks too, since those are his best runs. I have no clue why people want him back in Bludhaven outside of nostalgia and familiarity. It should've stayed dead and buried like it did after being bombed Pre-52. Nightwing fans are quite the divided bunch, but at least most of us should agree that the blue suit is better than the red.

you would be surprised there are enough "robin is red therefore nightwing should be red" people out there and i don't know if i should laugh or shake my head lol (sigh..head shake)

[JasonTodd428]

Its twice now that Dick has been yanked from being something better than Nightwing ( Batman and Agent 37) to go back. It sucks too, since those are his best runs. I have no clue why people want him back in Bludhaven outside of nostalgia and familiarity. It should've stayed dead and buried like it did after being bombed Pre-52. Nightwing fans are quite the divided bunch, but at least most of us should agree that the blue suit is better than the red.

It's massively annoying. Every time they start to do something that pushes the character they yank it away and shove him back in the Nightwing suit again.

[HellHere]

but at least most of us should agree that the blue suit is better than the red.

The blues the grown up colour. That red suit all I saw was "Dick is never getting anywhere so don't even bother thinking about it."

[yash]

The blues the grown up colour. That red suit all I saw was "Dick is never getting anywhere so don't even bother thinking about it."

i think they thought it made him look dark and edgy because dc post new 52 were in a dark and edgy mode when marvel with their wannabe political commentary is a more fun place then you know something just went wrong

[jules]

I think if a writer did Bludhaven right, it would be more a fan favorite to the Grayson people, but you cant appease everyone. Thats why were talking about combining the two popular ideas into one which can def be done. We just need a GOOD writer to combine the two in a way that makes sense.

I appreciate that you don't see it that way, but I believe we already have one.

I'm not particularly nostalgic for Bludhaven, even though I was reading the Dixon run as it came out, and appreciating that Dick had a solo title of his own. I think it's a dreadful, far too on-the-nose name, and it never aspired to be more than a smaller, worse Gotham that Batman didn't interfere in too often. So I was ambivalent about bringing it back, and actually appreciated Seeley's approach in that first arc, playing deconstructionist tour guide. The city's there, but reworked slightly to nod in the direction of Dick's personality by giving it more bright lights and glitter, as well as its seedy side. It still has its docks, it's still a former whaling town (and we get a cheeky little nod in that direction with the reappearance of Orca.) Already the city seems to have a bit more personality.

I just wish we got more established side characters and such, that would have made the arc more enjoyable.

By more established, do you mean characters from Dick's Bludhaven past? Because we got almost all his Dixon era rogues gallery other than Blockbuster, Lady Vic and Torque... and I was half convinced we were getting Torque too when the detail about how all the victims' heads had been turned came up. Since Nice got away, that still might get revisited. Or it might just have been a nod in his general direction. Sure, a lot of those former supporting villains didn't get much panel time or development, but they didn't in the Dixon days either, and Seeley added odd little details that helped to flesh them out. And I'm still highly amused that he took a character from a Hostess ad and made Pigeon fit into the DC universe proper.

Or do you mean new characters with the potential to be ongoing? Because I'd say that the cynical female detective is definitely a keeper. Nice may have been a very obvious villain, but once revealed he's a very striking and creepy image, walking around with a belt laden with masks, putting on the "face" of the person he's selected as his next victim.

All of that made it enjoyable to me. There's really a lot more going on than just a romance with Shawn, and at least some of it looks like spadework to lay foundations for the future. I prefer the spy stuff, now that Grayson has shown me how well that sits on Dick, but I'm a lot more interested in revisiting Bludhaven in between times as a result of this last story arc than I was before it started.

No writer outside of Dixon really has been able to write a good Bludhaven story and establish dick there.

Until Seeley I'm not sure any writer has even tried. Almost the first thing Devin Grayson did was to blow it up, and push Dick away. There wasn't really any need to drop Chemo on the city - he was already gone.

[Godlike13]

You guys hear about how they might be doing a Nightwing movie. Ya, nobody championed Grayson more then me (and ill continue to sing its praises to anybody that listens), but just from a branding perspective its in DC's best interest to make Nightwing work. It was always enviable that DC was gonna have to bring Grayson and Nightwing together.

[WonderNight]

It's massively annoying. Every time they start to do something that pushes the character they yank it away and shove him back in the Nightwing suit again.

dc should take the 3 best things from dickbats and grayson and build nightwing off of that. So what do you feel are the 3 best thing from dickbats and grayson?

[dietrich]

Ehh, there seems to be a huge split with people liking and not liking damian.

are you saying you just dont like him or you are indifferent to him? Like he does nothing for you?

Just like with The Batman. Like father like son.

[yash]

dc should take the 3 best things from dickbats and grayson and build nightwing off of that. So what do you feel are the 3 best thing from dickbats and grayson?

globe trotting is an obvious and Hypnos is definitely something i want and also Mr Minos he can be a unique villan that could very well be a threat in the larger dcu

[Drako]

globe trotting is an obvious and Hypnos is definitely something i want and also Mr Minos he can be a unique villan that could very well be a threat in the larger dcu

Mr Minos is dead tho.
Don't think Seeley and King had anymore plans for him even in Grayson.

[Lady Nightwing]

dc should take the 3 best things from dickbats and grayson and build nightwing off of that. So what do you feel are the 3 best thing from dickbats and grayson?

Speaking of Dickbats! James Jr. would be a stellar villain for the Nightwing movie. Pretty much adapt The Black Mirror to suit Nightwing.

As for the 3 things I'd keep:

1) Dicks new cast outside of the Batman family. Midnighter, Tiger etc.

2) Helena as a love interest. That romance had so much potential. Helena was a very complicated and nuanced character and the UST between her and Dick was palpable. I think it would translate very well on the big screen.

3. The fish out of water scenario.