Nightwing #16 preview/Discussion

[Comicgirl78]

I'm just saying that in the old days - I'm talking the 1980's & 90's - a relationship like this might have formed over a period of 12 issues; which, in comics time, might still have related to a few months. However, in this day and age, and with Seeley having a limited time to tell his story - due to the REBIRTH event climaxing in 2 years time - he doesn't really have that sort of liberty, so yes, he spanned those 2 months in just one issue. A sign of the times.

OH i see! I Agree i wish this relationship would have formed over 10 or 12 issues vs only one. Hmm, Seeley could have done alot more here, i think he was rushing it because he just wanted to get to globe trotting dick something he said he wanted to do since the beginning. We will see though, he could have done the Bludhaven stuff first and introduced Shawn then and then it would have made more sense you know? But we will see, i know Blockbuster will be showing up in Bludhaven soon in #20 i believe so im most excited for that. But yeah Rebirth is just a rushed effort from DC comics to fix the problems of n52, but i dont really think they fixed much tbh. 80s/90s comics is where it was at though xD bring them back!

[oasis1313]

I think I'd like to see Dick dating different girls, maybe have one in every port in the course of his glove-trotting, and not settle down with anybody for awhile. He's only--what?--either 21 or 77, so why not let him play the field?

[Comicgirl78]

I think I'd like to see Dick dating different girls, maybe have one in every port in the course of his glove-trotting, and not settle down with anybody for awhile. He's only--what?--either 21 or 77, so why not let him play the field?

LOL BYE @77 haha

[lorraine]

I'm just saying that in the old days - I'm talking the 1980's & 90's - a relationship like this might have formed over a period of 12 issues; which, in comics time, might still have related to a few months. However, in this day and age, and with Seeley having a limited time to tell his story - due to the REBIRTH event climaxing in 2 years time - he doesn't really have that sort of liberty, so yes, he spanned those 2 months in just one issue. A sign of the times.

You know the funny thing is that I stumbled upon a post complaining about how this whole Rebirth arc is taking ages to resolve. Like 2 years is too long the ones who complained said. Then there are those who complain that the stories are too rushed to be told in two years just like how it is happening in Nightwing and even Batman. I know it's hard to please everyone but I'm very much looking forward to how this Rebirth arc will end. It's not easy for writers to squeeze in everything for 24 or 48 issues in which they had already planned the arcs long before Convergence came to an end. From my own POV, I believe it's not the problem with the story itself but on how the writers use their characters. Character development is very important and I think that's what is lacking not only for Nightwing but pretty much the whole Batfam titles. I can't tell for the others since I'm only keeping in touch with Batman-related stuffs.

On the other hand, I heard Batman Beyond is doing pretty fine.

[Comicgirl78]

You know the funny thing is that I stumbled upon a post complaining about how this whole Rebirth arc is taking ages to resolve. Like 2 years is too long the ones who complained said. Then there are those who complain that the stories are too rushed to be told in two years just like how it is happening in Nightwing and even Batman. I know it's hard to please everyone but I'm very much looking forward to how this Rebirth arc will end. It's not easy for writers to squeeze in everything for 24 or 48 issues in which they had already planned the arcs long before Convergence came to an end. From my own POV, I believe it's not the problem with the story itself but on how the writers use their characters. Character development is very important and I think that's what is lacking not only for Nightwing but pretty much the whole Batfam titles. I can't tell for the others since I'm only keeping in touch with Batman-related stuffs.

On the other hand, I heard Batman Beyond is doing pretty fine.

All of rebirth is slacking in the character development department. Alot of people are complaining about this lol their characters being OOC (have you checked the superman threads? lol its like WW3 in there xD). I think Rebirth should have lasted longer tbh especially if this is supposed to reboot everything, they should have took the time to reboot properly! But, keep in mind that im pretty sure other writers will come in after rebirth to set up their own version of events like they always do, so your favorite character's story is not over yet (or ever tbh) as new writers are constantly being picked up. Idk if cannons will be restarted anytime soon (god i hope they doo lol, im looking at you batgirl), but yeah.

Also, the detective comics is doing extremely well so are titles like Titans and Super sons. I havent heard anything about Batman Beyond though, i might look that up!

[lorraine]

All of rebirth is slacking in the character development department. Alot of people are complaining about this lol their characters being OOC (have you checked the superman threads? lol its like WW3 in there xD). I think Rebirth should have lasted longer tbh especially if this is supposed to reboot everything, they should have took the time to reboot properly! But, keep in mind that im pretty sure other writers will come in after rebirth to set up their own version of events like they always do, so your favorite character's story is not over yet (or ever tbh) as new writers are constantly being picked up. Idk if cannons will be restarted anytime soon (god i hope they doo lol, im looking at you batgirl), but yeah.

Also, the detective comics is doing extremely well so are titles like Titans and Super sons. I havent heard anything about Batman Beyond though, i might look that up!

All in all, Rebirth is a lot more better than N52 and DC hasn't been this good in many years. I guess DC is also very lucky on the timing because Marvel has been suffering from low sales due to the 'Hail Hydra' crap and every bad thing that's going on in CWII. So this give comic readers the chance to choose over DC more. That being said, it's also the Rebirth itself that is bringing DC back to the light.

FYI, Rebirth is not in any way a reboot at all. It's still carrying on from the N52 contuinity. So basically, the N52 is still very much canon. Rebirth is just a relaunch of all the DC titles that combines the N52 contuinity with the pre-Flashpoint elements. That's the simplest way to explain.

And referring back to one of the users who said back in the days relationships took the time to develop over 10 issues, well it's impossible to do it now with Rebirth unless the comic title has solely got to do with romance genre - which of course is none of the case of the mainstream DC lines. It would be absolutely ridiculous to concentrate on Dick's relationship development with a new girlfriend for over 10 issues out of the 48 issues that he has for rebirth.And this is coming from someone who's very fussy about character developments but hey I'm also quite surprised that I'm enjoying what I'm reading. I'm saying this because of that old argument you guys like to bring out about how this relationship is so rushed and that we don't get to see enough development from both camps. I would also like to point that if you're applying this 'rush' thing to Nightwing, then you should also apply it to Batman, 'Tec, or Suicide Squad. Because then everything seems rush but at the same time there are those who are complaining why this rebirth arc is taking too long to answer who are the 3 jokers, whatever happened to that smiley face pin, or where does this superman come from blablabla. I like that they're doing 2 years to solve everything and I don't feel that much rush.

[Comicgirl78]

All in all, Rebirth is a lot more better than N52 and DC hasn't been this good in many years. I guess DC is also very lucky on the timing because Marvel has been suffering from low sales due to the 'Hail Hydra' crap and every bad thing that's going on in CWII. So this give comic readers the chance to choose over DC more. That being said, it's also the Rebirth itself that is bringing DC back to the light.

FYI, Rebirth is not in any way a reboot at all. It's still carrying on from the N52 contuinity. So basically, the N52 is still very much canon. Rebirth is just a relaunch of all the DC titles that combines the N52 contuinity with the pre-Flashpoint elements. That's the simplest way to explain.

And referring back to one of the users who said back in the days relationships took the time to develop over 10 issues, well it's impossible to do it now with Rebirth unless the comic title has solely got to do with romance genre - which of course is none of the case of the mainstream DC lines. It would be absolutely ridiculous to concentrate on Dick's relationship development with a new girlfriend for over 10 issues out of the 48 issues that he has for rebirth.And this is coming from someone who's very fussy about character developments but hey I'm also quite surprised that I'm enjoying what I'm reading. I'm saying this because of that old argument you guys like to bring out about how this relationship is so rushed and that we don't get to see enough development from both camps. I would also like to point that if you're applying this 'rush' thing to Nightwing, then you should also apply it to Batman, 'Tec, or Suicide Squad. Because then everything seems rush but at the same time there are those who are complaining why this rebirth arc is taking too long to answer who are the 3 jokers, whatever happened to that smiley face pin, or where does this superman come from blablabla. I like that they're doing 2, years to solve everything and I don't feel that much rush.

Oh i apply the rush argument to everything i read that is rushed XD. I havent read the batman stuff or suicide squad stuff, but i WAS reading batgirl and let me tell you lol it was WAY worse than nightwing lol but nightwing still is written like he is still a teen kinda like how batgirl is currently written. Both are being written as fandom versions of themselves instead of how they were actually created. Now, DC is great for recreating Dick and Babs that way to draw in the younger generations with the fandom stuff, but like with batgirl, i think nightwing might suffer from that eventually as well (i read this great tumblr post about this, it was actually really good and wasnt at all in any way naggy or pushy).

And you can totally have a relationship develop in the background while having other things happen, its not hard its been done before itll be done again (look at Dick and Kori's relationship, that developed as a side thing and even though that run was longer, it still took the same amount of issues that Dick has of all rebirth to develop). They could have introduced the bludhaven story line first and then move on! It would have made more sense in my mind, because having the bludhaven stuff after the raptor storyline, it makes it seem like Dick didnt learn anything you know? Like he is rushing things :/ I think if people are upset over rushed story lines, let them be upset! DC will never change if the fans dont speak out so i think its good people are a little lacklustered by the rushed storylines and OOC characters and are speaking about it.

Rebirth i was told IS a reboot combining n52 and 50s/60s comic book era (golden age), so idk anymore what rebirth is lol because thats just what i heard, but then again i also heard there is another reboot happening after rebirth!

As for marvel, you dang right DC is gonna profit off that mess LOL i dropped marvel because of hail hydra lol not even gonna lie. But, DC cant profit off being mediocre for long, fans like you mentioned are already starting to speak negatively over the rushed storylines and ooc characters, the rebirth grace period is almost over xD

[lorraine]

Oh i apply the rush argument to everything i read that is rushed XD. I havent read the batman stuff or suicide squad stuff, but i WAS reading batgirl and let me tell you lol it was WAY worse than nightwing lol but nightwing still is written like he is still a teen kinda like how batgirl is currently written. Both are being written as fandom versions of themselves instead of how they were actually created. Now, DC is great for recreating Dick and Babs that way to draw in the younger generations with the fandom stuff, but like with batgirl, i think nightwing might suffer from that eventually as well (i read this great tumblr post about this, it was actually really good and wasnt at all in any way naggy or pushy).

And you can totally have a relationship develop in the background while having other things happen, its not hard its been done before itll be done again (look at Dick and Kori's relationship, that developed as a side thing and even though that run was longer, it still took the same amount of issues that Dick has of all rebirth to develop). They could have introduced the bludhaven story line first and then move on! It would have made more sense in my mind, because having the bludhaven stuff after the raptor storyline, it makes it seem like Dick didnt learn anything you know? Like he is rushing things :/ I think if people are upset over rushed story lines, let them be upset! DC will never change if the fans dont speak out so i think its good people are a little lacklustered by the rushed storylines and OOC characters and are speaking about it.

Rebirth i was told IS a reboot combining n52 and 50s/60s comic book era (golden age), so idk anymore what rebirth is lol because thats just what i heard, but then again i also heard there is another reboot happening after rebirth!

As for marvel, you dang right DC is gonna profit off that mess LOL i dropped marvel because of hail hydra lol not even gonna lie. But, DC cant profit off being mediocre for long, fans like you mentioned are already starting to speak negatively over the rushed storylines and ooc characters, the rebirth grace period is almost over xD

Because Kori and Dick were in the Teen Titans together and were fighting together. So yeah of course there was time for development from being friends to lovers. I don't know how are they going to develop a nobody (a normal civilian let's say) who has a completely different lifestyle with no ties to any superhero duties with a superhero who has to kick ass every night and who has to go around the world fighting for justice. That's why it seems rushed that she knows everything about Dick and that they probably do that fast so that Dick can have a girlfriend. But don't you worry, she's going to be pushed a side as soon as Dick starts his duties internationally because bringing her with him will just drag and degenerate his character. I'm sorry to say this but it's true. I mean she has some good skills but in no way is she a pro in hand-to-hand or anything what superheros do. I sound like a hater but in fact I actually like the idea that Dick has a civilain girlfriend and not only that but also befriends a group of ex-villains with whom they helped each other. Therefore, I wish to see the run-offs more. (yeah i belong to the few voices here who likes them). Like I said, she's just like many other helpless girlfriends who are being used as a lame tool to empower future plots.

Well, i think DC is doing very well with the pace in order to reveal everything about Rebirth. People just need to be patient about it. This summer there's going to be major crossovers to keep up the hype. Dc has learned enough lessons on not to rush things just like how they did with N52. So I don't think their grace period is over yet.

[Comicgirl78]

Because Kori and Dick were in the Teen Titans together and were fighting together. So yeah of course there was time for development from being friends to lovers. I don't know how are they going to develop a nobody (a normal civilian let's say) who has a completely different lifestyle with no ties to any superhero duties with a superhero who has to kick ass every night and who has to go around the world fighting for justice. That's why it seems rushed that she knows everything about Dick and that they probably do that fast so that Dick can have a girlfriend. But don't you worry, she's going to be pushed a side as soon as Dick starts his duties internationally because bringing her with him will just drag and degenerate his character. I'm sorry to say this but it's true. I mean she has some good skills but in no way is she a pro in hand-to-hand or anything what superheros do. I sound like a hater but in fact I actually like the idea that Dick has a civilain girlfriend and not only that but also befriends a group of ex-villains with whom they helped each other. Therefore, I wish to see the run-offs more. (yeah i belong to the few voices here who likes them). Like I said, she's just like many other helpless girlfriends who are being used as a lame tool to empower future plots.

Well, i think DC is doing very well with the pace in order to reveal everything about Rebirth. People just need to be patient about it. This summer there's going to be major crossovers to keep up the hype. Dc has learned enough lessons on not to rush things just like how they did with N52. So I don't think their grace period isn't over yet.

Yeah i know about DickxKori and how it developed, but that is a godo example of good development you know? I think Shawn had more than enough room to develop on her own as a character into a love interest. Seeley didnt HAVE to put them together so quick. Dick is comming back to Bludhaven constantly, there is more than enough room to add more development :/ but i guess its a mute point now since its here, idk if its to stay for the rest of the run (i hope not tbh), but it is. LOL girl its ok to hate, go ahead, if youre not happy with something say it you know ( i consider myself a hater for not liking DickxShawn, but i dont apologise for it no more because to me the forced relationship is a problem). Dont apologise for it! I actually agree with you, i would much rather see Shawn develop with the run offs (i actually was interested in them as well a bit) with their own things without having to be Dick's love interest, she had so much potential that is now being shoved to the side of the sake of being a love interest. I would also LOVE to see dick with a civilian girlfriend with absolutely ZERO ties to his life as a superhero, that means being a villain as well! Shawn is not the answer to me wanting Dick to have a civilian girlfriend! Shawn i never thought she would be a love interest, i always thought she would end up as her own character ( i actually thought in the beginning she came from the batgirl stuff because MAN does she look like one of them girls from that writing lol). I dont mind if Shawn gets written off, but i do mind if she is killed. Do something interesting with her Seeley, turn her into a villain, make her move away to be on her own, make her do something other than just be a plot device (i know i wont get this but a girl can dream no?).

Eh, i think people have been more than patient with REbirth. Like i said, i think rebirth is reaching the end of the grace period (not yet, i think there is still a couple months left, but in comic book time that is short). Alot of problems can be seen very far in advanced, and there probably wouldnt have been such a big hoopla over n52 if people spoke out sooner. But i do think alot of people are holding back on their criticisms just to see DC do well, which is fine, but then again its those same people who turn around and make character expos about how their character was ruined during "so-so's" run. Like SPEAK OUT if you dont like something, its better to nip it in the bud in the beginning when the problem first arises than to wait. Crossovers will be the death of me though. Although, i do like Dick better in his crossovers than he is in his solo runs (that is really sad for me to admit lol), but DC needs to stop relying on cameos and crossovers. They really need to have writers actually focus on their solo stuff and make the character interesting!

[rui no onna]

I guess DC is also very lucky on the timing because Marvel has been suffering from low sales due to the 'Hail Hydra' crap and every bad thing that's going on in CWII. So this give comic readers the chance to choose over DC more. That being said, it's also the Rebirth itself that is bringing DC back to the light.

In fairness, the Hydra!Cap storyline is actually quite decent if not for Nick Spencer's tendency to go heavy handed on the political soapboxing. CW II though, seemed like a jumping off point for a lot of folks. It's not so much the event itself but the tie ins which interrupt the regularly scheduled programming. Here's hoping Marvel would pause the event after event thing after Secret Empire is done.

But yes, DC and quite likely Image and other small pubs, too, are benefiting from Marvel's recent blunders.

[lorraine]

Yeah i know about DickxKori and how it developed, but that is a godo example of good development you know? I think Shawn had more than enough room to develop on her own as a character into a love interest. Seeley didnt HAVE to put them together so quick. Dick is comming back to Bludhaven constantly, there is more than enough room to add more development :/ but i guess its a mute point now since its here, idk if its to stay for the rest of the run (i hope not tbh), but it is. LOL girl its ok to hate, go ahead, if youre not happy with something say it you know ( i consider myself a hater for not liking DickxShawn, but i dont apologise for it no more because to me the forced relationship is a problem). Dont apologise for it! I actually agree with you, i would much rather see Shawn develop with the run offs (i actually was interested in them as well a bit) with their own things without having to be Dick's love interest, she had so much potential that is now being shoved to the side of the sake of being a love interest. I would also LOVE to see dick with a civilian girlfriend with absolutely ZERO ties to his life as a superhero, that means being a villain as well! Shawn is not the answer to me wanting Dick to have a civilian girlfriend! Shawn i never thought she would be a love interest, i always thought she would end up as her own character ( i actually thought in the beginning she came from the batgirl stuff because MAN does she look like one of them girls from that writing lol). I dont mind if Shawn gets written off, but i do mind if she is killed. Do something interesting with her Seeley, turn her into a villain, make her move away to be on her own, make her do something other than just be a plot device (i know i wont get this but a girl can dream no?).

Eh, i think people have been more than patient with REbirth. Like i said, i think rebirth is reaching the end of the grace period (not yet, i think there is still a couple months left, but in comic book time that is short). Alot of problems can be seen very far in advanced, and there probably wouldnt have been such a big hoopla over n52 if people spoke out sooner. But i do think alot of people are holding back on their criticisms just to see DC do well, which is fine, but then again its those same people who turn around and make character expos about how their character was ruined during "so-so's" run. Like SPEAK OUT if you dont like something, its better to nip it in the bud in the beginning when the problem first arises than to wait. Crossovers will be the death of me though. Although, i do like Dick better in his crossovers than he is in his solo runs (that is really sad for me to admit lol), but DC needs to stop relying on cameos and crossovers. They really need to have writers actually focus on their solo stuff and make the character interesting!

OH NO I did not say that I hate her. No no. I really like her and I wish that she could be around more. Sorry if my writing produced some misunderstanding.

Oh and what's the matter with crossovers? For me, they're actually the best. As a matter of fact, the best things to come out of N52 for me were some of the crossovers (seriously Forever Evil was solid).

[Comicgirl78]

OH NO I did not say that I hate her. No no. I really like her and I wish that she could be around more. Sorry if my writing produced some misunderstanding.

Oh and what's the matter with crossovers? For me, they're actually the best. As a matter of fact, the best things to come out of N52 for me were some of the crossovers (seriously Forever Evil was solid).

I didnt mean you hated her, i meant that its ok to have negaive feelings towards something you dont like happening. Like i said before, you can like a character and still not like the direction the writer is going with them. I understood what you were saying, i was just using the word hater because that is the common lingo now a days (hater does not me you hate something, it jut means youre salty over it xD)

NO i LOVE crossovers lol like i said in , Dick is the best in his crossover stuff! But, alot of solo's runs are slacking because the writers have to appeal to the crossovers as well, so we get lackluster writing in the solo stuff. I just wish DC put more time and effort into solo runs equal to the amount of time and effort they put into Crossovers so that fans have a decent solo run to come back to. I hope that made sense lol

[Comicgirl78]

In fairness, the Hydra!Cap storyline is actually quite decent if not for Nick Spencer's tendency to go heavy handed on the political soapboxing. CW II though, seemed like a jumping off point for a lot of folks. It's not so much the event itself but the tie ins which interrupt the regularly scheduled programming. Here's hoping Marvel would pause the event after event thing after Secret Empire is done.

But yes, DC and quite likely Image and other small pubs, too, are benefiting from Marvel's recent blunders.

lol DC better hope Marvel doesnt come back with a bang! DC is putting alot of effort into movies, im worried their comics are gonna slack off because of it like Marvel's did :/

[Netherman14]

All of rebirth is slacking in the character development department. Alot of people are complaining about this lol their characters being OOC (have you checked the superman threads? lol its like WW3 in there xD). I think Rebirth should have lasted longer tbh especially if this is supposed to reboot everything, they should have took the time to reboot properly! But, keep in mind that im pretty sure other writers will come in after rebirth to set up their own version of events like they always do, so your favorite character's story is not over yet (or ever tbh) as new writers are constantly being picked up. Idk if cannons will be restarted anytime soon (god i hope they doo lol, im looking at you batgirl), but yeah.

Also, the detective comics is doing extremely well so are titles like Titans and Super sons. I havent heard anything about Batman Beyond though, i might look that up!

Bumping in myself, because yeah. ****'s fucking hitting the fan over there in our forum.

[Assam]

Bumping in myself, because yeah. ****'s fucking hitting the fan over there in our forum.

I haven't looked at the Superman forum yet since the only characters in that mythos I REALLY like (Matrix and Kon-El), currently aren't around. What's going on?