Nightwing #16 preview/Discussion

[yash]

I can see what youre saying, but i think alot of people gave Grayson a chance, hence the disappointment. i hate how nightwing is always running back to the bats its a silly trope that needs to end. Grayson was critically acclaimed by the reviewers, but from the fans, it wasnt put high on a pedastool :/ the reason why i say Grayson was more of a concept or wasnt as popular was because when people think of Dick, they think of Nightwing, not a spy. I agree that rebirth is not generating any buzz similar to Grayson, but Nightwing rebirth is rated higher (but that could all change after this blunder with the pregnancy thing), and nightwing if i am to be completely honest, alot of the buzz is coming from the cameos not really nightwing himself. Honestly if you look at the reviews for !5/16, they were legit saved by the cameos. Rebirth i will agree was nothing like Grayson and it is a little boring, there isnt much to really say about it. Alot of people talk about Shawn or Dick because idk there is literally barely anything to talk about lol there arnt many side characters, the plots arnt really that exciting and its just blah (we can agree to disagree with this if you dont agree). At least with Grayson we got some new ideas right? I did drop Grayson for my own reasons, but im not gonna lie it was pretty entertaining.

I think Grayson was more exciting and innovative, and had a more honest feel to it, but i just think its not what alot of fans wanted is all :/ I think Dick can have a healthy balance of Grayson-esque stuff and being nightwing. But again, its like the writers and the editors can only do one thing at a time and that is what makes it boring. Dick suffers from boring writing. I think having a little Grayson in there would be good for him so i agree with you on that. But i dont think we should revert back to being a spy. There is so much they can do with Dick they just arnt doing. And for me Seeley is not the answer to that problem, in fact personally i think he created more of a problem with rebirth, but thats just me.

you would not have as many people singing high praise for Grayson and asking for more of it if it was not "REALLY" good people were predicting it to lose steam and being done with within 8 issues but it went past all that negativity and brought enough people around that a lot of people were disappointed when grayson was announced to be done with and now you have enough people complaining about the lack of grayson-esque NW run by seeley i think there are just not enough things you can do with NW in a traditional superhero setting all the while keeping him in the batverse because there are certain rules that needs to be followed and their are certain characters that needs to act certainly to keep the batverse consistent i just don't think in an era of relaunchs/next big event there is a lot of things that can be done that are original or can be done better because i don't think outdoing something that batman/spiderman/daredevil have already done well all the while playing by certain rulles that writters of those series did not have is something i don't think is possible and the whole nightwing is more popular argument is not holding up because nightwing is 30 years old grayson is just 20 issues old we are comparing apples and oranges here

[HellHere]

Yessss. Let's trot some globe, shall we?

Very excited for this arc. Haven't really been a huge fan of Shawn, but a line from this issue helped me like her (if only a bit). "I finally had something normal." This version of Dick Grayson went from circus kid, to Robin, to leading the Titans, to Nightwing, to Batman, to Nightwing, to international superspy. He hasn't done "normal" yet at all. granted, I don't think the needs normal, but i think trying it out fits with what I see as a propensity to seek new experiences. Also, a poster from here (can't remember who) mentioned the possibility of Shawn wanting him to leave superheroing behind. While that isn't in the text yet, its an intriguing possibility. Heck, the very existence of his "something normal" juxtaposes his life of high adventure with that of a normal civilian. As a supporting character, Shawn could be used to make a statement about Dick, that he doesn't want a normal life; that he is a hero because he enjoys it; heroing is where he "feels at home."

Yeah, for Shawn doing the mask stuff was a way of rebelling against society (so she's a bit like Mary Grayson (and Raptor) there... thank God Dick wasn't quoting Oedipus Rex) and took her away from her family. But for Dick, doing the mask stuff is part of being in his family. To stop it would be to put a huge gap between himself and everyone else.

[yash]

Yeah, for Shawn doing the mask stuff was a way of rebelling against society (so she's a bit like Mary Grayson (and Raptor) there... thank God Dick wasn't quoting Oedipus Rex) and took her away from her family. But for Dick, doing the mask stuff is part of being in his family. To stop it would be to put a huge gap between himself and everyone else.

that makes it sound like batfamily is full of weirdos lol

[Comicgirl78]

you would not have as many people singing high praise for Grayson and asking for more of it if it was not "REALLY" good people were predicting it to lose steam and being done with within 8 issues but it went past all that negativity and brought enough people around that a lot of people were disappointed when grayson was announced to be done with and now you have enough people complaining about the lack of grayson-esque NW run by seeley i think there are just not enough things you can do with NW in a traditional superhero setting all the while keeping him in the batverse because there are certain rules that needs to be followed and their are certain characters that needs to act certainly to keep the batverse consistent i just don't thing there is a lot of things that can be done that are original or can be done better because i don't think outdoing something that batman/spiderman/daredevil have already done all the while playing by certain rulles that writters of those series had is something i don't think is possible

Idk lol alot of people say certain issues will lose steam, cant really blame them if it comes true.

I dont see much people complaining about the lack of GRayson-esque stuff in rebirth. I see more people complaining about OOC dick and rushed Shawn than anything. You can do alot of things with Nightwing in a traditional setting, his character has a crap ton of arcs and characters they can use, they just choose not to use them. Its the writers/ editors you need to be pointing the fingers at not the character. Dick used to have pretty amazing writing, i think you need to ask yourself what happened to it? I still think the writers and editors were just done with dick by the time they killed him off because they kept just running in circles and smashing into walls. They never branch out with his character while still keep some of his original stuff, like i said its the writers and editors are really limiting themselves here.

Nothing is ever truly original, Dick was pretty much a 007 knock off in Grayson. While entertaining, it was something we've seen before in a different medium. Just like Dixon's ngihtwing was pretty much a Batman knock off. Both great runs, unfortunately for Seeley, Dixon is the one that is on top. Fans want new and exciting, but they also dont want to read a comic about their favorite character, and not recognize that character. I think Seeley is trying to change Dick too much and that is putting people off, whether you agree or not, ive never really seen alot of people complain about Dick this much since Dick got killed off. Grayson/Rebirth is not the answer to fixing dick's writing. I like Seeley but im not gonna give him praise where praise isnt due.

[HellHere]

that makes it sound like batfamily is full of weirdos lol

HDU! They're all very well adjusted. :P

[dropkickjake]

Idk lol alot of people say certain issues will lose steam, cant really blame them if it comes true.

I dont see much people complaining about the lack of GRayson-esque stuff in rebirth. I see more people complaining about OOC dick and rushed Shawn than anything. You can do alot of things with Nightwing in a traditional setting, his character has a crap ton of arcs and characters they can use, they just choose not to use them. Its the writers/ editors you need to be pointing the fingers at not the character. Dick used to have pretty amazing writing, i think you need to ask yourself what happened to it? I still think the writers and editors were just done with dick by the time they killed him off because they kept just running in circles and smashing into walls. They never branch out with his character while still keep some of his original stuff, like i said its the writers and editors are really limiting themselves here.

Nothing is ever truly original, Dick was pretty much a 007 knock off in Grayson. While entertaining, it was something we've seen before in a different medium. Just like Dixon's ngihtwing was pretty much a Batman knock off. Both great runs, unfortunately for Seeley, Dixon is the one that is on top. Fans want new and exciting, but they also dont want to read a comic about their favorite character, and not recognize that character. I think Seeley is trying to change Dick too much and that is putting people off, whether you agree or not, ive never really seen alot of people complain about Dick this much since Dick got killed off. Grayson/Rebirth is not the answer to fixing dick's writing. I like Seeley but im not gonna give him praise where praise isnt due.

You are the first person (in a while) that I've seen saying that Higgins' run was superior to Grayson. There are people on these message boards complaining about the lack of Grayson elements in the Welcome to Bludhaven arc. Also, he wasn't really a 007 clone, just a spy. In terms of personality traits they were pretty different.

Finally, I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but you can quote multiple posts in a single reply. Its pretty helpful when you want to address multiple posts at once.

[gwangung]

You are the first person (in a while) that I've seen saying that Higgins' run was superior to Grayson. There are people on these message boards complaining about the lack of Grayson elements in the Welcome to Bludhaven arc. Also, he wasn't really a 007 clone, just a spy. In terms of personality traits they were pretty different.

Finally, I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but you can quote multiple posts in a single reply. Its pretty helpful when you want to address multiple posts at once.

Well, to be honest, I dropped Nightwing because of the lack of Grayson-esque elements.

I'm not necessarily calling for him to go back to being a spy; I just think Nightwing could have a unique niche moving back and forth from the superhero to the espionage environment. All sorts of ideas here, from being a player to being a handler of deep cover agents, that are being dropped.

[Comicgirl78]

You are the first person (in a while) that I've seen saying that Higgins' run was superior to Grayson. There are people on these message boards complaining about the lack of Grayson elements in the Welcome to Bludhaven arc. Also, he wasn't really a 007 clone, just a spy. In terms of personality traits they were pretty different.

Finally, I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but you can quote multiple posts in a single reply. Its pretty helpful when you want to address multiple posts at once.

I am? Because i was actually told to read only Dixon and Higgins by alot of people. I rate Higgins higher than Seeley, that is me. I know there are others out there who do aswell, but i am speaking for me. Seeley hasnt done anything really impressive to me. I dont see alot people asking for Grayson to come back outside of CBR. And yeah sometimes people reply after i post, so there is that! I usually try to respond to multiple people in one post.

Well, to be honest, I dropped Nightwing because of the lack of Grayson-esque elements.

I'm not necessarily calling for him to go back to being a spy; I just think Nightwing could have a unique niche moving back and forth from the superhero to the espionage environment. All sorts of ideas here, from being a player to being a handler of deep cover agents, that are being dropped.

See yes this! Dick can definitely have elements of being a spy and a superhero at the same time while still maintaining a sense of normalcy. Those are things that will make his run soooo much better. But i dont think Dick should be a player, it diminishes his character. But i do think he should be able to date around and have a pool of peopel to choose from and develop with, but i dont think he should be rushing anything too a serious place like he is with shawn, its a complete turn off lol. Im dropping rebirth because its boring and too soap opera for my taste.

[Assam]

I am? Because i was actually told to read only Dixon and Higgins by alot of people. I rate Higgins higher than Seeley, that is me. I know there are others out there who do aswell, but i am speaking for me. Seeley hasnt done anything really impressive to me. I dont see alot people asking for Grayson to come back outside of CBR. And yeah sometimes people reply after i post, so there is that! I usually try to respond to multiple people in one post.

I think both Higgens and Grayson had terrible runs on Nightwing. There were definitely highs and lows, with the absolute low-point being Dick's time as Renegade.

[HellHere]

I am? Because i was actually told to read only Dixon and Higgins by alot of people.

No offence, but it's a good idea to just ignore anyone telling you to "only" read anything. Read all of it, as much as you can, then make up your mind.

[Comicgirl78]

I think both Higgens and Grayson had terrible runs on Nightwing. There were definitely highs and lows, with the absolute low-point being Dick's time as Renegade.

Grayson was just terrible lol but i think higgin's run was definitely ruined by the crossovers! All Grayson had to do was do a good run, but nope.

No offence, but it's a good idea to just ignore anyone telling you to "only" read anything. Read all of it, as much as you can, then make up your mind.

LOL i did, i read Grayson and Seeley as well

----------------------------------------------------------
BUT GUYS! What if Shawn is mirage and Dick was under a type of subtle mind control this whole time and Shawn isnt real? And the whole love thing was just a ruse to break him? And he actually wasnt in love with anyone. Because i noticed the times when Dick acts OOC is really only around Shawn, so that could be a sign that maybe Shawn is just a form of mind control from mirage to entice Dick and Shawn isnt real because she is just a manifestation of what Mirage wants Dick to see. I hope that makes sense lol

[byrd156]

Yessss. Let's trot some globe, shall we?

Very excited for this arc. Haven't really been a huge fan of Shawn, but a line from this issue helped me like her (if only a bit). "I finally had something normal." This version of Dick Grayson went from circus kid, to Robin, to leading the Titans, to Nightwing, to Batman, to Nightwing, to international superspy. He hasn't done "normal" yet at all. granted, I don't think the needs normal, but i think trying it out fits with what I see as a propensity to seek new experiences. Also, a poster from here (can't remember who) mentioned the possibility of Shawn wanting him to leave superheroing behind. While that isn't in the text yet, its an intriguing possibility. Heck, the very existence of his "something normal" juxtaposes his life of high adventure with that of a normal civilian. As a supporting character, Shawn could be used to make a statement about Dick, that he doesn't want a normal life; that he is a hero because he enjoys it; heroing is where he "feels at home."

As for the pregnancy scare, I thought it was handled particularly well in Dick's inner monologue. Pregnancy is scary and growing up we think of it as "bad." As a young adult it isn't bad so much as just stressful and scary. I thought that was handled well. It does, of course, raise the stakes on her going missing. It also seems like maybe Shawn does have something to hide. I sorta hope so. It would make her a bit more interesting to me.

Damian was great. Stealing the batmobile was great. Can Dick just keep that, please? He needs a way to get around on these globe hoping adventures after all. Just knock out the red bat windshield and put in a blue Nightwing one. I'd love for Damian to tag along for the whole arc, though I understand that its unlikely.

Deathwing. Deathwing might be a really cool rouge. I feel weird typing that. Also, I'm pretty intrigued to see who his boss is.

So very excited for the rogues gauntlet thats about to go down.

That would be pretty awesome if Dick just kept that Batmobile. He really needs some sort of transportation to get around, all he has is parkour and a grappling hook, that would probably take awhile to get around Bludhaven. I kinda wish that Dick would have those wingsuit arms that he had in the animated series. It's a simple addition that doesn't mess with the costume and gives him the ability to glide.

[ayanestar]

lmao ppl hated Higgins run with such a passion especially on this forum, are we now seriously gonna pretend his mess of a run was superior to Seeley and King's? The only people I remember loving it were the same people on tumblr hating on Grayson without even reading it, they literally only read the previews and pretended to know everything about it. Yeah good old times istg tumblr is one of the worst places on the internet nowadays. I can't take this discussion serious anymore lol I'm pretty sure we had the same arguments over and over again in Dick's thread last year.

[yash]

Idk lol alot of people say certain issues will lose steam, cant really blame them if it comes true.

I dont see much people complaining about the lack of GRayson-esque stuff in rebirth. I see more people complaining about OOC dick and rushed Shawn than anything. You can do alot of things with Nightwing in a traditional setting, his character has a crap ton of arcs and characters they can use, they just choose not to use them. Its the writers/ editors you need to be pointing the fingers at not the character. Dick used to have pretty amazing writing, i think you need to ask yourself what happened to it? I still think the writers and editors were just done with dick by the time they killed him off because they kept just running in circles and smashing into walls. They never branch out with his character while still keep some of his original stuff, like i said its the writers and editors are really limiting themselves here.

Nothing is ever truly original, Dick was pretty much a 007 knock off in Grayson. While entertaining, it was something we've seen before in a different medium. Just like Dixon's ngihtwing was pretty much a Batman knock off. Both great runs, unfortunately for Seeley, Dixon is the one that is on top. Fans want new and exciting, but they also dont want to read a comic about their favorite character, and not recognize that character. I think Seeley is trying to change Dick too much and that is putting people off, whether you agree or not, ive never really seen alot of people complain about Dick this much since Dick got killed off. Grayson/Rebirth is not the answer to fixing dick's writing. I like Seeley but im not gonna give him praise where praise isnt due.

I'm not pointing fingers at the character I'm pointing fingers at the identity dick grayson is my favourite character his best solo stories have never been with him as Nightwing and if your idea of nightwing is ansty "im my own man" or serious"bruce and i are not talking" all the while removing the one aspect of devin grayson's run that was well received(she was the one that that made him a player) i don't know what to tell you now if you are receiving your recommendations on tumblr then i not going to try to challenge that monster that place is filled with fat/bald/blue arm pit haired radical feminists that hate everything that is targeted towards appealing to men

[Comicgirl78]

I'm not pointing fingers at the character I'm pointing fingers at the identity dick grayson is my favourite character his best solo stories have never been with him as Nightwing and if your idea of nightwing is ansty "im my own man" or serious"bruce and i are not talking" all the while removing the one aspect of devin grayson's run that was well received(she was the one that that made him a player) i don't know what to tell you now

My idea of Grayson is not angsty, infact, if youve been reading my replies, youd see im not a fan of soap opera angsty dick lol If you want to know my idea of Dick i can message you in private because i have a whole thing about that.

lmao ppl hated Higgins run with such a passion especially on this forum, are we now seriously gonna pretend his mess of a run was superior to Seeley and King's? The only people I remember loving it were the same people on tumblr hating on Grayson without even reading it, they literally only read the previews and pretended to know everything about it. Yeah good old times istg tumblr is one of the worst places on the internet nowadays. I can't take this discussion serious anymore lol I'm pretty sure we had the same arguments over and over again in Dick's thread last year.

nightwing fandom does not revolve around this forum. tumblr is not the worst place, you can get some pretty interest non bias conversations with people on there, Dick has a HUGE fandom there, alot of those people are pretty chill and cool. There are some people who told me to stay away from CBR and i still came, same with reddit and other places.