CBR's exclusive announcement: Jay Garrick returns in Flash #22

[Cybak]

Also important is the large empty white space. Could they have whited out other characters?

[Troian]

I really, really wish DC would stop with the fingerless glove looks

Oh my god yes.

[ShinySephiroth]

Oh its not quite Eobard at all, some would say it would Rival him...

Yeah, that's another great point. With "Jay's" face being blanked out I'm very much leaning toward that not being Jay on the cover.

[Jadeb]

Yeah, that's another great point. With "Jay's" face being blanked out I'm very much leaning toward that not being Jay on the cover.

I'm hoping that's just because they don't want to reveal how old he is.

[Jody Garland]

Huh. I might need to reread that, but didn't he just say "My tendons are tearing...I'm not gonna be fast enough for this"? I mean, I've always thought everyone knew that Jay wasn't as fast as the other Flashes. That's not about his age, that's just the limits of his superspeed. Plus, I could see that line coming out of a young man's mouth just as easily.

You're right, after double checking. That's what I get for going off of half-decade old memories.

[jsainfinity]

How's this as a solution to the whole JSA issue?

In 1951, Johnny Thunder uses the Thunderbolt to send the JSA (and their loved ones) into 'Limbo'. In reality though, the Thunderbolt simply sends them to a parallel universe/pocket universe/alternate timeline/whatever. The JSA lived their lives in this other dimension, where time worked differently than it did on Earth 0. Around 1963 in this dimension (by which time it was '10 years ago' on Earth 0), Barry Allen accidentally ended up entering this other universe and teaming up with Jay (basically 'The Flash of Two Worlds' story). More team-ups ensued, including some full-fledged JLA-JSA team-ups for a short-while. But then, the dimension was inexplicably cut-off from Earth 0 fully, and the Earth 0 heroes lost all memory of encountering the JSA. Another decade or two passed, the JSA's kids grew up and they themselves went into semi-retirement. And now, its around 1986 in their dimension, and they are re-emerging to rejoin Earth 0. And its revealed that the Thunderbolt was actually aware of Manhattan's tampering and how it would erase the JSA from history so it sent them into Limbo (along with a younger doppelganger/construct of Johnny himself) while the real Johnny was stuck on Earth 0 and barely remembered the JSA, let alone why he sent them away. And Manhattan learned that the Earth 0 heroes had accessed this other dimension and managed to erase their memories of it and cut off their access to the dimension, but wasn't able to penetrate the dimension itself thanks to the Thunderbolt.

This way, I think you can preserve a lot of JSA history, or at least the trappings of it, while keeping things relatively simple. In a way you can re-canonize all the old Earth 2 stories. You can have the JSA grow older and be in their fifties or sixties, and with kids, but still not be pushing 100 as they would in real-time. And the mere fact that they are 'forgotten legends' from WW2 on Earth 0 would give them their own niche and sense of uniqueness.

This is a GREAT solution!

[ShinySephiroth]

Sorry - where can I read about Johnny Thunder hiding the JSA in limbo? And from what I'm gathering from what you guys are saying... are there inconsistencies with that event I'm unfamiliar with and later team-ups i.e. the Crisis on Multiple Earths trades?

[MajorHoy]

Sorry - where can I read about Johnny Thunder hiding the JSA in limbo? And from what I'm gathering from what you guys are saying... are there inconsistencies with that event I'm unfamiliar with and later team-ups i.e. the Crisis on Multiple Earths trades?

The bit about "Johnny Thunder hiding the JSA" came up on a page or two of the DC Universe: Rebirth one-shot last May when Wally (still in the Speed Force) contacted old Johnny in a nursing home trying to find the rest of the JSA. Beyond that, I'm not aware of any further in-story mentions.
As to "inconsistencies" between that happening and later events from the past, well, the Earth's past has been changed/rearranged/merged/restarted multiple times, and each time there have been things left out (and then sometimes later brought back).

[Waterfall]

I think Williamson has brought solid, good, storytelling and a real sense fun and optimism back to the book, which had been missing for a long time, as well as a strong appreciation and understanding of the mythos and the cast.

Safe storytelling has been a thing since the beginning of New52. Sure, Venditti screwed up but Williamson didn't do anything new. Also "solid" part is really debatable.

I look for that in a good run more then I do a writer bringing in radical changes or needing to throw their own ideas into the mythos. It's very much a "Flash: Rebirth" run.

Barry has no "modern" roots. Using Wally West's cast isn't good at all. He should try building a sidecast for Barry and Barry only.

Heart's no Zolomon but I think he served the role Williamson used him in very effectively and worked in the story well. Plus, his costume and name are pretty cool .

Reaaaaallly??? What's his role? He was supposed to be Punisher type of character when he failed at every aspect of it. He was supposed to be sympathetic, but he came across obnoxious.

"I'm doing this for Barry! You will thank me later!" - "Hahaha, why do you care about Meena anyways!"
"I'm bringing justice! Bad people shouldn't get away!" - "Oh, those innocent speedsters? They were wasting away their powers, anyways!"

He was such a dumbass and everything; the obvious rip off from Zolomon, the lame powers--"I can be at two places at once!!" Flash can do this since frigging Silver Age, the lame reveal (who didn't guess his identity??), the obvious hints of him becoming the Jason Todd of Flashfamily, even though he doesn't even deserve it...Gah! He's the most annoying Flash villain ever, and Flash has a villain named Abra Kadabra. He was nothing but a costume and name. Take that away and he adds NOTHING to already overcrowded Speedsters clan. I hate how people can't defend August beyond "b-but he has a cool name and costume!" How superficial, it's actually a great representation of Williamson's run: NO DEPTH AT ALL.

I can't wait for someone to kill him honestly.

[GlennSimpson]

Sorry - where can I read about Johnny Thunder hiding the JSA in limbo? And from what I'm gathering from what you guys are saying... are there inconsistencies with that event I'm unfamiliar with and later team-ups i.e. the Crisis on Multiple Earths trades?

The mention of Johnny hiding the JSA was in the DC Universe: Rebirth special. As for the stories in the Crisis on Multiple Earths trades, those happened in a previous version of DC's history. When DC did their "New 52" revamp back in 2011, they mostly started-over on their history. So for the current Justice League, those old team-ups never happened.

[Blackest Knight]

I'm still waiting to see if we have any confirmation that Jay will be reappearing in an actual story, not just a single view of him on a variant cover.

Oh please. DC sent out a press release to CBR, Newarama and other outlets announcing this issue was the return of Jay Garrick.

No, this is not the same as Mark Waid's "Return of Barry Allen" story from 1992-93. That was a gimmick to try and boost sales. This is the Rebirth of Jay Garrick which leads into JSA Rebirth. And as we have seen 100% of the time with every single Rebirth title, when DC says it's a particular character's Rebirth? Then no, it is not a gimmick, a trick, a feint or a lie. Every single Rebirth has indeed featured the Rebirth of the character as promised.

I've been reading your posts about how disappointed you've been in Rebirth. You have every right to your opinion--just as I have every right to disagree with you. And this spurious allegation you're throwing around willy-nilly in this thread I've started is, in my humble opinion, nothing more than the ranting of a disgruntled fan venting his displeasure with Rebirth not meeting your particular expectations.

This Rebirth is for real and yes, that is the real Jay Garrick. I'd bet my next paycheck on it. Why don't you start a thread to tell everyone how much you don't like Rebirth because DC isn't doing it the way you want them to?

Because that's what is underlying your skepticism: your own personal dislike of Rebirth, with no evidence to definitively back-up your bizarre and absurd claim that DC and Geoff Johns are actually lying to us when they send out a press release about an issue of Flash featuring Jay.

[Frontier]

Safe storytelling has been a thing since the beginning of New52. Sure, Venditti screwed up but Williamson didn't do anything new. Also "solid" part is really debatable.

And I'm not really bothered by "safe" stories so long as I'm enjoying them and their well-told, which I feel they have been in The Flash under Williamson. We'll just have to agree to disagree about the quality.

Barry has no "modern" roots. Using Wally West's cast isn't good at all. He should try building a sidecast for Barry and Barry only.

I don't think he's really used Wally's cast that much, and when he has it's been in relation to Wally II. Frankly I think Barry is far less encroaching on Wally's territory right now then he has been before.

Reaaaaallly??? What's his role? He was supposed to be Punisher type of character when he failed at every aspect of it. He was supposed to be sympathetic, but he came across obnoxious.

"I'm doing this for Barry! You will thank me later!" - "Hahaha, why do you care about Meena anyways!"
"I'm bringing justice! Bad people shouldn't get away!" - "Oh, those innocent speedsters? They were wasting away their powers, anyways!"

He was such a dumbass and everything; the obvious rip off from Zolomon, the lame powers--"I can be at two places at once!!" Flash can do this since frigging Silver Age, the lame reveal (who didn't guess his identity??), the obvious hints of him becoming the Jason Todd of Flashfamily, even though he doesn't even deserve it...Gah! He's the most annoying Flash villain ever, and Flash has a villain named Abra Kadabra. He was nothing but a costume and name. Take that away and he adds NOTHING to already overcrowded Speedsters clan. I hate how people can't defend August beyond "b-but he has a cool name and costume!" How superficial, it's actually a great representation of Williamson's run: NO DEPTH AT ALL.

I can't wait for someone to kill him honestly.

I thought he worked well as a red herring partner for Barry as they built-up to Wally II becoming a new Kid Flash and emphasizing why The Flash needs a partner, and while it was obvious he was Godspeed I thought the reveal was fairly well handled and it worked well in creating a Speedster villain who made a good contrast with Barry.

Again, I thought August was used well in the arc and served his purpose well, but agree to disagree.

[richalex]

That really looks more like The Rival to me than it does Jay. But It would be nice if it was Jay.

[Blackest Knight]

That really looks more like The Rival to me than it does Jay. But It would be nice if it was Jay.

He's returning from presumably the Speed Force--either that or somewhere/somewhen manifested by Doctor Manhattan. Hence, he is glowing. And they're announcing the issue as Jay's return.

It baffles me that anyone would doubt a Rebirth issue as absolute zero of the Rebirth reintroductions have been red herrings. I could understand fans being frustrated that it isn't a full-on JSA Rebirth (yet). But this is a good start. I see no reason to start doubting or being paranoid that it's a trick. There's no evidence to support that outside of people "sensing" or "feeling" like it might be. Feelings are not facts, folks.

[MajorHoy]

. . . It baffles me that anyone would doubt a Rebirth issue as absolute zero of the Rebirth reintroductions have been red herrings. I could understand fans being frustrated that it isn't a full-on JSA Rebirth (yet). But this is a good start. I see no reason to start doubting or being paranoid that it's a trick. There's no evidence to support that outside of people "sensing" or "feeling" like it might be. Feelings are not facts, folks.

Which is why I'm waiting until Jay is actually appearing in a story (not just a cover) before I get too excited.

FACTS . . . not just hints.