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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackest Knight View Post
    Maybe there will be. Maybe there won't.

    They killed off New 52 Superman when they brought back Lois and Clark from pre-Flashpoint.
    But they also now have 2 Wally Wests.
    And we're still waiting to see what happens in the final issue of Earth 2 next month.

    My point is, we don't yet know which of the 2 options--keep both in continuity or eliminate one of them--they will end up going with.

    Let's not assume the worst. The cover looks great and it's plotted by Geoff Johns so whichever method they go with, I feel confident most fans will be happy.
    I assume the worst because Johns is attached to this... since it means its going to be pandering to his personal head canon like it always does because DC does not have the balls to tell him how destructive and idiotic some of his ideas are.

    Also, from his previous run on the JSA, it just cemented why this team needed to be on another planet. The Justice League leaves nothing for them to do other than put out small fires and mentor a bunch of up and coming heroes who aren't big enough for the Teen Titans.

    As for Wally West... that was a fundamental mistake done by DC thinking their readers are so stupid they just jump on the bandwagon with the same name as the thing they've been asking about for years. And yet, now that the real Wally is back... I am kinda wating for the Titans book to actually move past that. You wanted a focus on Wally West of old, do a mini-series or add him to the Flash book, dont let him suck out everything from a team book composed of mostly under-developed characters.

    I don't disagree with Lee, multiple Earths should mean multiple versions of the different characters. And I agree that Earth 2 was mostly ruined after James Robinson departed... I'm feeling it right now again with Abnett at the wheel, but I really do fear DC is just going to throw it all in the fire once more just so Johns can have his sandbox back.

  2. #17
    Incredible Member Jadeb's Avatar
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    The rebooted Earth-2 mythology was never going to stick in the long-term. Even if it had been good, there's too much attachment to the original versions and their importance to the history of the DC universe. Some creator was going to bring them back, sooner or later. The process was just sped up by the largely superficial connections of the new characters to the old ones.

  3. #18
    Fantastic Member sustainentropy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    I prefer the idea of Jay Garrick existing in another universe. But they cocked up the entire Earth 2 mythos really badly after James Robinson quit the title, so for me it's a relief to get a "back to basics" JSA on Earth 0.

    It should also be noted that we don't know how old this Jay Garrick will be. If he was in some sort of stasis since the 1950s then he should only be in his 30s.
    Well if he's been in the speed force since Johnny Thunderbolt zapped the JSA there in the 50's he should still be his young self.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sustainentropy View Post
    Well if he's been in the speed force since Johnny Thunderbolt zapped the JSA there in the 50's he should still be his young self.
    Yes. That's exactly what I just said.

  5. #20
    D*mned Prince of Gotham JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    I assume the worst because Johns is attached to this... since it means its going to be pandering to his personal head canon like it always does because DC does not have the balls to tell him how destructive and idiotic some of his ideas are.

    Also, from his previous run on the JSA, it just cemented why this team needed to be on another planet. The Justice League leaves nothing for them to do other than put out small fires and mentor a bunch of up and coming heroes who aren't big enough for the Teen Titans.

    As for Wally West... that was a fundamental mistake done by DC thinking their readers are so stupid they just jump on the bandwagon with the same name as the thing they've been asking about for years. And yet, now that the real Wally is back... I am kinda wating for the Titans book to actually move past that. You wanted a focus on Wally West of old, do a mini-series or add him to the Flash book, dont let him suck out everything from a team book composed of mostly under-developed characters.

    I don't disagree with Lee, multiple Earths should mean multiple versions of the different characters. And I agree that Earth 2 was mostly ruined after James Robinson departed... I'm feeling it right now again with Abnett at the wheel, but I really do fear DC is just going to throw it all in the fire once more just so Johns can have his sandbox back.
    As much as I'd like to see the Earth 2 stick around because I think Abnett has been doing a decent job at getting it back on track I have to agree with you with the bolded part. I have this gut feeling that Earth 2: Society will wrap up with those versions of the characters as the Wonders of a new Earth 2 but we'll never see that Earth 2 again. I really don't believe DC plans to try and placate both sets of fans there at all because Johns will likely deem Earth 2 as one of the mistakes of the N52 that needs to be corrected by restoring the "real" JSA to the current universe. (Just a note: I am looking forward to seeing a JSA Rebirth even though it might not sound like it with that last bit.)
    Last edited by JasonTodd428; 02-24-2017 at 05:12 PM.
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  6. #21
    Mighty Member Blackest Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadeb View Post
    The rebooted Earth-2 mythology was never going to stick in the long-term. Even if it had been good, there's too much attachment to the original versions and their importance to the history of the DC universe. Some creator was going to bring them back, sooner or later. The process was just sped up by the largely superficial connections of the new characters to the old ones.
    Precisely.

    It's the same thing with the teen X-Men from 1963. Sooner or later, they're goin' bye-bye.

    Fans overwhelmingly prefer the originals to the replacements 90% of the time (yes, I know there are exceptions to this rule which is why I said 90% ).

  7. #22
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    I assume the worst because Johns is attached to this... since it means its going to be pandering to his personal head canon like it always does because DC does not have the balls to tell him how destructive and idiotic some of his ideas are.

    Also, from his previous run on the JSA, it just cemented why this team needed to be on another planet. The Justice League leaves nothing for them to do other than put out small fires and mentor a bunch of up and coming heroes who aren't big enough for the Teen Titans.
    Is this really something we can peg on Johns, or is he and the company just doing what they think the fans want? From what I've seen, JSA fans seem to want the post-Crisis status quo back, or at least get versions of the characters closer to their classic selves and less like the New 52 Earth-2 versions.

    I mean, I totally agree that the JSA should be on their own separate Earth regardless of which version of themselves they resemble, but I don't think that's whats gonna sell for whatever reason that I don't really understand.

  8. #23
    D*mned Prince of Gotham JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Is this really something we can peg on Johns, or is he and the company just doing what they think the fans want? From what I've seen, JSA fans seem to want the post-Crisis status quo back, or at least get versions of the characters closer to their classic selves and less like the New 52 Earth-2 versions.

    I mean, I totally agree that the JSA should be on their own separate Earth regardless of which version of themselves they resemble, but I don't think that's whats gonna sell for whatever reason that I don't really understand.
    I'm a JSA fan who happens to like the Earth 2 versions of the characters too. I happen to think that both versions can co-exist, like the two Wally's do, and I would actually love to see that happen. The thing is I don't really believe that it's going to happen that way. DC has people clammering for the more classic take and so that's likely what we will end up with. I just hope that fans put there money where their mouths are and support the book.
    Last edited by JasonTodd428; 02-24-2017 at 05:30 PM.
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    Oh my goodness gracious! I've been bamboozled!

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  9. #24
    Mighty Member Blackest Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonTodd428 View Post
    I'm a JSA fan who happens to like the Earth 2 versions of the characters too. I happen to think that both versions can co-exist, like the two Wally's do, and I would actually love to see that happen. The thing is I don't really believe that it's going to happen that way. DC has people clammering for the more classic take and so that's likely what we will end up with. I just hope that fans put there money where their mouths are and support the book.
    Given what was established in Multiversity, it would not be a stretch to have the Earth 2 book just remain one of the 52 Earths with its alternate versions of heroes.

    Then just keep the classic JSA as on Earth 0.

    Hell, that's even easier than having 2 Wally Wests on the same Earth.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sustainentropy View Post
    Well if he's been in the speed force since Johnny Thunderbolt zapped the JSA there in the 50's he should still be his young self.
    It's hard to see the appeal of a young(er) Jay on the main Earth with Wally, Barry, other Wally, the Professor and Mary Ann, etc. I like an older Jay, sure, but an older Jay provides decades of experience and a view that few DC characters can. He has a role with his experience. Same for Alan.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonTodd428 View Post
    I'm a JSA fan who happens to like the Earth 2 versions of the characters too. I happen to think that both versions can co-exist, like the two Wally's do, and I would actually love to see that happen. The thing is I don't really believe that it's going to happen that way. DC has people clammering for the more classic take and so that's likely what we will end up with. I just hope that fans put there money where their mouths are and support the book.
    Me, too. Since we have multiple dupes of the JL around various alternate Earths, is it really a problem to have a second Jay, Alan, and Carter? If the books don't sell, then don't publish them. However, getting rid of them (by eradicating the current Earth 2 heroes and planet) would be a mistake. Minis and guest appearances can work.

  11. #26
    Mighty Member Blackest Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    It's hard to see the appeal of a young(er) Jay on the main Earth with Wally, Barry, other Wally, the Professor and Mary Ann, etc. I like an older Jay, sure, but an older Jay provides decades of experience and a view that few DC characters can. He has a role with his experience. Same for Alan.
    If Jay was in his 20s or 30s during World War II, then he'd be in his 40s or 50s when the JSA was hidden by Johnny's magic thunderbolt in the 1950s. The same with all members of the JSA.

    Me, too. Since we have multiple dupes of the JL around various alternate Earths, is it really a problem to have a second Jay, Alan, and Carter? If the books don't sell, then don't publish them. However, getting rid of them (by eradicating the current Earth 2 heroes and planet) would be a mistake. Minis and guest appearances can work.
    Exactly. Keep them all around for all the fans. Certainly, the CW DC shows have proven that almost any hero or villain no matter how obscure can be put to good use in a storyline.

    I think Cousin Wally is working out very well as the new Kid Flash in both Teen Titans and The Flash. No reason the New 52 Earth 2 wonders can't find similar success in DC Rebirth.

  12. #27

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    Most exciting news I've read all day. Can't wait!

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadeb View Post
    While you can't tell much from silhouette, it looks like this is a younger Jay. At least the costume tweaks suggest that.

    I really, really wish DC would stop with the fingerless glove looks, but it's great to have Jay back.
    I don't know about that. I mean, Jay never really looked out of shape:


  14. #29
    D*mned Prince of Gotham JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackest Knight View Post
    If Jay was in his 20s or 30s during World War II, then he'd be in his 40s or 50s when the JSA was hidden by Johnny's magic thunderbolt in the 1950s. The same with all members of the JSA.
    Was Jay hidden by Johnny's magic thunderbolt though is the question. Jay's helmet seems to have been floating around in the Speed Force in that issue of Flash and that made me wonder if it's possible Jay was somehow pulled into it even though he has no connection to it. Would that even be possible?

    Exactly. Keep them all around for all the fans. Certainly, the CW DC shows have proven that almost any hero or villain no matter how obscure can be put to good use in a storyline.

    I think Cousin Wally is working out very well as the new Kid Flash in both Teen Titans and The Flash. No reason the New 52 Earth 2 wonders can't find similar success in DC Rebirth.
    I'd really like it if you turn out to be right because I think it could work out and I would happily buy both books if that happened.
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    Oh my goodness gracious! I've been bamboozled!

    When we hit our lowest point, we are open to the greatest change. AVATAR AANG

  15. #30
    Thrashing Like a Maniac! Gotham Thrasher's Avatar
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    I think (hoping) that we re going to get both the newer jsa (the current Earth 2) and older JSA. Covergence showed that both version exist side by side so this way fans of both (or one or the other) will get their cake and get to eat it too. I'm an old school JSA fan but I'm liking Abnett's run on Earth 2 so I hope that we get to keep both.
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