Worst of Humanity in the X-Books

[Punch Dimension.]

That was a great run of issues. I wish we still had those threads.

[Zelena]

While the X-Men have faced their share of evil mutants, mutates, dimensional entities, and other powerful enemies, they've also fought against a number of baseline humans. I'm curious who people think are the nastiest flatscans the X-Men have ever had to deal with.

Please limit this to baseline humans ONLY. No mutates or others who've been artificially enhanced IE Pierce or Sinister.
…

I'm tired of this 'us' versus 'them' philosophy…

[Ulfhammer]

While the X-Men have faced their share of evil mutants, mutates, dimensional entities, and other powerful enemies, they've also fought against a number of baseline humans. I'm curious who people think are the nastiest flatscans the X-Men have ever had to deal with.

Mutants (and other Super Humans) are by far there own worst enemy. All the atrocities of baseline humans over all the years of publishing combined can't even begin to hold a candle to what Cassandra Nova was able to accomplish in a single day, or Scarlet Witch with a few words. Sinister, Apocalypse and Magneto's antics over the years have caused misery and fear for the X-Men and fueled the fire of humanities darker responses. Just the implications of a mutant like Franklin Richards existing should scare the crap out of anyone who needs to maintain a stable society. People complain about needing more gun control. Imagine a small group of individuals with no oversight that each control more power than the world's collective nuclear stockpile.

This is worrying about a stubbed toes while one is in the grips of a massive heart attack.

If we must focus on humans, I'd suggest the U-Men are the worst. At least the majority of other mutant hate groups claim to be protecting there own species from violent and malicious mutants with incredible powers, a legitimate concern given the history of mutants in the 616. The U-Men however are motivated to kill and dismember mutants, entirely for their own self advancement and to serve their deranged agenda.

[Zero Hunter]

Thinking about it I am surprised Marvel has not done a big x-books crossover with someone uniting all the mutant hate groups into one force and really going hard after the mutants. Some of those groups did have pretty advanced tech and could be a real threat if they were untied. Imagine a group made up The Friends of Humanity, The Right, The Purifiers, the Reavers, and the Church of Humanity members. It would be a great way to bring back Graydon Creed and Donald Pierce in a big way.

[Tycon]

Mutants (and other Super Humans) are by far there own worst enemy. All the atrocities of baseline humans over all the years of publishing combined can't even begin to hold a candle to what Cassandra Nova was able to accomplish in a single day, or Scarlet Witch with a few words. Sinister, Apocalypse and Magneto's antics over the years have caused misery and fear for the X-Men and fueled the fire of humanities darker responses. Just the implications of a mutant like Franklin Richards existing should scare the crap out of anyone who needs to maintain a stable society. People complain about needing more gun control. Imagine a small group of individuals with no oversight that each control more power than the world's collective nuclear stockpile.

This is worrying about a stubbed toes while one is in the grips of a massive heart attack.

If we must focus on humans, I'd suggest the U-Men are the worst. At least the majority of other mutant hate groups claim to be protecting there own species from violent and malicious mutants with incredible powers, a legitimate concern given the history of mutants in the 616. The U-Men however are motivated to kill and dismember mutants, entirely for their own self advancement and to serve their deranged agenda.

Cassandra Nova isn’t a mutant.

Scarlet Witch isn’t a mutant.

Sentinels are a human creation.

Purifiers, Bastion, Orchis, Leper Queen, Reavers, U-Men, Graydon Creed, General Callahan, MRD, The Right, and the Friends of Humanity all helped bring the X-Men, and mutants in general, to their lowest points.

These are all facts. Do with them what you want.

[Ulfhammer]

Cassandra Nova isn’t a mutant.

Her psionic powers IIRC came from Charles. Close enough for government work.

Scarlet Witch isn’t a mutant.

Sure she is.

Sentinels are a human creation.

So are mutants. Not sure that's relevant.

Purifiers, Bastion, Orchis, Leper Queen, Reavers, U-Men, Graydon Creed, General Callahan, MRD, The Right, and the Friends of Humanity all helped bring the X-Men, and mutants in general, to their lowest points.

Several of which would not have mattered nearly as much if Genosha and M-Day hadn't happened. Both event perpetrated by, well for the sake of argument, non-humans.

[Huntsman Spider]

Thinking about it I am surprised Marvel has not done a big x-books crossover with someone uniting all the mutant hate groups into one force and really going hard after the mutants. Some of those groups did have pretty advanced tech and could be a real threat if they were untied. Imagine a group made up The Friends of Humanity, The Right, The Purifiers, the Reavers, and the Church of Humanity members. It would be a great way to bring back Graydon Creed and Donald Pierce in a big way.

With all the mutants united on Krakoa, I could see an alliance similar to the one you're suggesting. Of course, given that Krakoa is an actual sovereign nation-state now . . . I'm thinking the alliance would have to be secretly masterminded by someone in the UN who really, really hates the idea of having to recognize mutants as members of a sovereign nation. The goal would be more to destabilize and undermine Krakoa through this alliance and compel some kind of World War X that this person believes will end in either the destruction of mutants or at least the destruction of Krakoa. Plenty of room for it to backfire on the would-be mastermind, though it could also be fodder for the human world powers to declare war on Krakoa and mutants as a whole.

[Lapsus]

Interesting thread. Aside of bad Magneto's propaganda, humans always was, are and will be the main thorn in the mutantkind side. Demons and terrorist groups go and gone away, but the hatred and prejudice of humans is eternal.

Which is a shame and shows a total lack of imagination from the writers.

Almost all X-men conflicts which deal with human-mutant topic have been: evil mutant hates humans and evil human hates mutants. They could explore more themes like:

• Powerfull mutant who doesnt want to increase the number of mutants, "why be just another mutant in krakoa when i can become a god between humans" (the big fish in a small pond, in the land of the blind the one-eye man is king ect...)

• Mutant who despise his mutation and wish to be normal.
- Cyclops: "dont worry Shitface everyone is welcome in krakoa, just remember, mutant and proud" "Yeah sure"

• The ethics of forcing the mutation in humans, if you are born with powers or want to regain them after the M day, its ok, but imagine that you are ok with your normal life and then the next phoenix sperg hits you. Now you are Flyhead the best friend of Shitface.

• Humans who worship mutants, why not? not just support but actual devotion like a cult. Let's be honest, we are idiots, i could actually see many of us wanting Magneto for president.

• Governments and private companies who want to exploit mutants and their gene (Weapon X) or even turning humans in mutant weapons.

• Mutants who work for the government instead of the inhuman scary sentinel, they could be shady and compite with the x-men.

I don't argue that the should be no more discrimination but just reducing everything to human vs mutant is tiresome. Humanity is too complex to be reduced like that, mutants included.

In my opinion, Mutants still lack the alien feel to alienate the humans in unified front, especially when they are part of a shared universe. The grimmdark theme of a possible war would work better in a separate continuity without the rest of the Marvel Universe

[Tycon]

Her psionic powers IIRC came from Charles. Close enough for government work.

She's a M U M M U N D R A I. For how many people on this site talk about Morrison's run to death, it's surprising how much isn't known about it. What she did wasn't the fault of any mutant.

Sure she is.

No, she isn't. Unless you've got the latest retcon on deck.

So are mutants. Not sure that's relevant.

Mutants are a genetic evolution of humans, while Sentinels were created to kill Mutants.

Several of which would not have mattered nearly as much if Genosha and M-Day hadn't happened. Both event perpetrated by, well for the sake of argument, non-humans.

Unless I'm mistaken, Genosha was blown up because Nova got her hands on a Master Mold (which, if you read my third response on this post, you know why that falls on anti-mutant sentiment).

[Ulfhammer]

She's a M U M M U N D R A I. For how many people on this site talk about Morrison's run to death, it's surprising how much isn't known about it. What she did wasn't the fault of any mutant.

I'm pretty sure that also means she's not human. Wasn't your point that humans were responsible for the greatest level of mutant oppression? Would she have ever even existed in the 616 without Charles? Whatever.

No, she isn't. Unless you've got the latest retcon on deck.

That's exactly my point. The retcons were shenanigans. Her long history is clear. This will be corrected before long. Besides, wasn't she still considered a mutant during House of M? Or was it Children's Crusade? Maybe both. At this point its academic.

Mutants are a genetic evolution of humans, while Sentinels were created to kill Mutants.

Mutants have been adapted, or press ganged by mutants to kill other mutants. Sentinels have been used by Mutants as well. Mutants didn't need to invent weapons to kill humans. Most were already born with them.

Unless I'm mistaken, Genosha was blown up because Nova got her hands on a Master Mold (which, if you read my third response on this post, you know why that falls on anti-mutant sentiment).

Who's idea was it though? It was hers, not Trask's. And why did she do it? Sibling rivalry with Charles. Not exactly the standard human supremacy agenda.

At the end of the day the two worst crimes perpetrated against mutants weren't committed by humans. All the pain and misery humans brought seems like a small thing in comparison to M-Day and Genosha. Not for the X-Men perhaps, but I do think that's true for the mutant population in general.

[lordozone]

William Stryker. He is the worst not because of his bodycount, but because of his extremism: the others humans antagonists can doubt, can negociate. But Stryke think he has a divine mission, and never doubt of his righteousness. He is the worst because you can't argue or negociate with him, it's not just hate it's a divine mission. And he has the charisma, the words, to convince his followers. The other humans ennemies are lead by hate or fear and even if it's very hard you can try to talk discuss and appease, but him, it's a divine mission and you can't negociate with faith.

[Chris0013]

I'm tired of this 'us' versus 'them' philosophy…

This has been my argument for years...if it is meant to mirror the real world....100% of any race are not racist...it is a small percentage.

That's exactly my point. The retcons were shenanigans. Her long history is clear. This will be corrected before long. Besides, wasn't she still considered a mutant during House of M? Or was it Children's Crusade? Maybe both. At this point its academic.

She was a mutant at the time of House of M when she did it and at the time of Children's Crusade when Scott brought the X-Men to kill her...even though she was going to repower all mutants. She stopped being a mutant in the Uncanny Avengers book on Counter-Earth.

[BroHomo]

This has been my argument for years...if it is meant to mirror the real world....100% of any race are not racist...it is a small percentage.



She was a mutant at the time of House of M when she did it and at the time of Children's Crusade when Scott brought the X-Men to kill her...even though she was going to repower all mutants. She stopped being a mutant in the Uncanny Avengers book on Counter-Earth.

You know that's not how retcons work right?

[Chris0013]

You know that's not how retcons work right?

My point is...until she wasn't a mutant..she was always treated as a mutant. She even considered herself a mutant. So to have someone come along after the fact and say "oh..she's not a mutant now" in no way changes her motivations at the time.

[BroHomo]

My point is...until she wasn't a mutant..she was always treated as a mutant. She even considered herself a mutant. So to have someone come along after the fact and say "oh..she's not a mutant now" in no way changes her motivations at the time.

But it does change the fact she doesn't have/never had an X-Gene...for that matter neither does Cassandra Nova. HENCE! they ain't mutants