History of Asgardians on Earth

[ElliotJA]

Just how long have humans known of and revered the Asgardians? I know that in the real world it's only been several thousand years, but there are some indicates that in Marvel, it's been considerably longer. Each Ragnarok cycle lasts several thousand mortal years. In THOR: AGES OF THUNDER it's stated that there have been at least 23 cycles; this would push Asgardian activity back a long way into prehistory, and the same book indicates that humans already lived on Earth and acknowledged Asgard by the third cycle.

Interestingly, Marvel's old Conan comics had the human Nordheimr of the Hyborian Age, circa 10,000 BCE, frequently invoke Ymir, Woden, Thor and Balder. These stories are canon, as they occurred in the distant past of Reality-616. And a recent story showed Odin employing the forces of Heven to discourage Asgardians from wreaking havoc on Earth at a time when humans were still not very far removed from apes and hunted mammoths. Whether this is before or after the Hyborian Age, I'm unsure, but I'm personally inclined to place it before. And there were human civilizations on Earth many thousands of years prior to the Hyborian Age that could have had knowledge of Asgard.

[KingsLeadHat]

To my knowledge it's never been stated. That said, the Elder Gods have existed since the Earth formed 4 billion years ago, so Marvel gods have existed since the beginning. As far as I know, we still have no idea when the Asgardian's started with Buri in terms of a specific date, but it obviously happened long after the Elder Gods formed from the Demiurge.

[ElliotJA]

To my knowledge it's never been stated. That said, the Elder Gods have existed since the Earth formed 4 billion years ago, so Marvel gods have existed since the beginning. As far as I know, we still have no idea when the Asgardian's started with Buri in terms of a specific date, but it obviously happened long after the Elder Gods formed from the Demiurge.

It was presumably within or near the time of the evolution of humanity. That's when the Asgardians came into existence; precisely how long humans have been aware of them is another matter, though it has to have been a LOT further back in time than in reality.

[ZNOP]

It was presumably within or near the time of the evolution of humanity. That's when the Asgardians came into existence; precisely how long humans have been aware of them is another matter, though it has to have been a LOT further back in time than in reality.

Journey Into Mystery #83 (1962)

[ElliotJA]

Has anyone here read AGES OF THUNDER? Is it canon to Earth-616?

[ElliotJA]

A possible obstacle to the idea that the Asgardians have been known and worshipped on Earth for many tens of thousands of years (if not longer) is that the vampire lord Varnae, who was born some time in the era of King Kull of Valusia (circa 20,000 BCE), was immune to faith in the gods of Asgard, because according to him, they were born long after his time. But if there have been as many cycles of Ragnarok as AGES OF THUNDER implies, all lasting several thousand years, then Odin, Thor and the rest must have existed in some form long before Varnae's birth.

[ElliotJA]

One theory I've considered is that the Ragnarok cycles specified in AGES OF THUNDER were not properly in synch with mortal history. Their versions of Asgard and the gods may have lived and died eons before 16,000 BCE (which some sources state to be when they first became known and worshipped by humanity), but the Midgard/Earth they interacted with was one many thousands of years in their future, closer to recorded history (though still probably prior to the current cycle). Perhaps the different cycles even overlapped in Earth-time, so multiple versions of the gods could have been active at the same time. Opinions?

[JudicatorPrime]

I'd like to think that if you're going to hold to an Earth-centric view of the origins of gods, the Asgardians came to Earth sometime after the Elder Gods, which pre-date all but the most microbial life on Earth and humanity. But if you can accept that there are planets, sentient beings and civilizations that pre-date Earth by billions and billions of years, it only stands to reason that there are/were pantheons of gods who thrived well before Earth's Elder Gods...and perhaps, the Asgardians are counted in those ranks. They are not native to Earth, but came here at some point in time, perhaps as their divine mission to serve/nurture/save the crown jewel of the multiverse (Earth).

[JudicatorPrime]

And yes, I'm saying that Asgardians are the Earth's first cosmically illegal immigrants.

[Ravin' Ray]

They are not native to Earth, but came here at some point in time, perhaps as their divine mission to serve/nurture/save the crown jewel of the multiverse (Earth).

I recall the 80's Deluxe Handbook stated that they are not native to Asgard but originated on Earth and then migrated there, perhaps in a way explaining their lack of true immortality.

[KingsLeadHat]

At least going by Marvel continuity up till the late 80's, the Asgardian's (and all other pantheons) are descended from the Elder Gods, so they all have roots on Earth. What's unclear is when the children of the Elder Gods became those pantheons we're familiar with and when they moved to adjacent dimensions like Asgard and Olympus. I'd suspect that Buri was born on Earth, perhaps as part of the first generation after the original Elder Gods.

[ElliotJA]

So could the Asgardians of earlier cycles (pre-16,000 BCE) have time travelled to a future Earth?

Also, in the Hyborian Age of 13,000-9,000 BCE, the Nordheimr were divided into the neighbouring kingdoms of Aesgaard and Vanaheim, dominated by the tribes of the Aesir and Vanir people, respectively. What could be the exact relationship between these places and peoples and the Asgard and Vanaheim, and Aesir and Vanir, of the Nine Worlds? We know that Odin existed at this time, and other Asgardian deities too. Why would humans have named themselves and their territories after celestial beings and places? Remember, all the Conan material is canon to Earth-616, even if they can't actually refer to it anymore.

[JKtheMac]

Has anyone here read AGES OF THUNDER? Is it canon to Earth-616?

Coincidently I read it yesterday. I have been playing catchup with the minis. I didn't take the cycles too seriously. Mainly because I find the Ragnarok cycle idea kind of annoying through overuse. At least the Disassembled story (pretty much a disconnected mini with a couple of tiny references to cannon to tie it in), tried to break out of it. The minis are the worst for this. It seems everyone that ever pitches a story to Marvel pitches a Ragnarok story. Maybe it wouldn't be too bad but having read far too many of the minis and one-shots in one day, I was beginning to feel like I was stuck in a Ragnaork cycle of my own.

I still hold onto the Sepent Crown idea. The gods were formed right there in that story with an approximate date. For a portentously narrated explanation watch this. Not safe for work!

How much is still cannon is questionable, but I suspect some of the writers and editors still hold to it. Or at least appreciated the story. For example Thor Annual #10 seems to be the inspiration for Aaron's Thor God of thunder.

[JKtheMac]

The all important panels from Thor Annual #10:

Thor-Annual-10.jpg

In the preceding pages Demogorge 'God Eater', has flown up to the sun, which has burned off (turning him back into Atum) and projected outwards 'godstuff' which goes on to inspire mankind to make the gods in his image. Such that the pantheons are shaped by the mind of man at the very beginning of mankind's emergence.

The beauty of this origin is that Thor gets a promotion. Odin is of the pantheons, but his mother Gaea is one of the earliest elder gods who also gave birth to Atum. Thor is technically higher on the cosmic scale than Odin.

[ElliotJA]

That is indeed how it happened.