Clone Conspiracy OMEGA Spoilers and Discussion

[Frontier]

I found it visually repulsive, on a visceral level. Especially since Martha and Billy's faces are not fully reptilian but just scaly while still human. If my reaction was what Slott, Gage and Smith intended then they succeeded.

Y'know, I thought Marvel had put that family through enough at this point, after already having killed them off and having Curt eat his own son, but I guess I was wrong. ...

[Kurolegacy]

In what way? "Feeling worse," maybe. No one got out of this mentally or emotionally unscathed but I'm not sure how that's a bad thing from a story perspective.

I think the epilogue gave sufficient weight to the emotional toll that this storyline inflicted. It was a solid end cap that left all the players in interesting places.

The Rhino is emotionally crushed but he's going to try and honor Oksana's memory by not giving in to rage. The empathy Peter showed to Aleksei was great and their moment together as Peter was able to calm him down - and perhaps give himself a reminder about how to cope with tragedy - was excellent.

Spider-Man's conversation with PI worker Jerry's wife was gut-wrenching and would be enough to burden anyone with a lifetime's worth of guilt. A great scene that - painfully - didn't let Peter off the hook for the part he played in these events, even if his actions were well-intentioned.

I also love that Kaine is going after Ben and that his time in Loomworld is done (at least for now). Slott really writes Kaine well, making his gruff cynicism stand in stark contrast to Peter's more naive outlook. Kaine's a total hard ass and I can't wait to see how PAD handles him in Ben's book.

And as for The Lizard...oh boy! It looks like we'll be seeing more of the Connors down the line and it ought to be a doozy of a story when we do. I thought Shed was about as dark as things could get for The Lizard but this new development might end up topping it. Although to be fair, The Lizard is probably happier than he's ever been!

As for the other stories, I enjoyed PAD and Bagley's brief bit with Ben. Nice set-up that emphasizes the fact that Ben does not regard himself as a villain in any way. In his mind, the goals he was working for were just and he bears no guilt - simple as that. I'm definitely interested to find out what kind of journey PAD has mapped out for him (and for Kaine).

And the final story with Kingpin repaying his debt to Spidey (but likely just using him as a pawn, despite his professions of generosity) by handing him the intel he needs to find Osborn was excellent. Immonen's art on these four pages has me drooling in anticipation for his run. It's going to be damn pretty, that's for sure.

No I mean they are literally worse off than when they were before this story:

Ben has essentially gone from a hero who was considered to not only be worthy of the Spider-Man mantle but also the man Kaine wished to live up to to an unhinged megalomaniac who's deluded himself into thinking that playing God is alright and when things go wrong with that, is perfectly fine with unleashing a zombie plague on the world. Not only has he lost all sense in the value of life, but he kidnapped innocent people and replaced them with clones even if they had been able to be helped by New U's technology. Also he's now gone from a perfect clone to a degenerated clone the likes of how Kaine used to be.

Kaine is now back to his previous status of dying due to the clone degeneration because Slott for some reason decided to retcon that it had been the Other who was maintaining him rather than the anti-Venom cure from Spider-Island. So while alive (which we've known he was for over a year), he's now lost his future and is choosing to hunt down Ben rather than find a cure. I'm honestly hoping that PAD figures some way to fix the both of them within the Scarlet Spider series.

Peter is at the start of his company falling apart. Between the use of the webware in the previous issue and the reaction from his employee's wife, the people aren't going to be too happy with Parker Industries in the near future. On top of that, he had to lose his loved ones all over again.

Jameson has not only lost his family for the second time but has also now lost his job at the Fact Channel, being blamed for the outbreak that occured over the airway.

Lizard has clearly lost his mind, essentially preserving his family in such an inhumane way that they aren't even themselves anymore. Just looking at the way that his wife and son are acting in the final page, it's clear that his turning the into lizard hybrids has done more harm to them than good. It's akin to someone having their dead love taxidurmined and keeping the body, talking to it as if that person is still there.

[Ravin' Ray]

Y'know, I thought Marvel had put that family through enough at this point, after already having killed them off and having Curt eat his own son, but I guess I was wrong. ...

And the expression on their faces! It's a smile that's not a smile. I just… ARGHH! And even though they're clones, the fact that they either consented to this, or the "cure" did something to their minds… makes my skin crawl.

[Prof. Warren]

I found it visually repulsive, on a visceral level. Especially since Martha and Billy's faces are not fully reptilian but just scaly while still human. If my reaction was what Slott, Gage and Smith intended then they succeeded.

Well, it's definitely meant to be horrific so if you were repulsed then I suppose it had the desired effect.

I know I definitely found it to be pretty disturbing myself!

[Scarlet Spider-Man]

I called it on the Lizard family!

[Prof. Warren]

No I mean they are literally worse off than when they were before this story:

Ben has essentially gone from a hero who was considered to not only be worthy of the Spider-Man mantle but also the man Kaine wished to live up to to an unhinged megalomaniac who's deluded himself into thinking that playing God is alright and when things go wrong with that, is perfectly fine with unleashing a zombie plague on the world. Not only has he lost all sense in the value of life, but he kidnapped innocent people and replaced them with clones even if they had been able to be helped by New U's technology. Also he's now gone from a perfect clone to a degenerated clone the likes of how Kaine used to be.

"Kidnapped innocent people?" I'm not sure about that. He took people who willingly went to New U for help and put them in stasis and gave them clone replacements. Not the nicest thing to do but also not quite as nefarious as kidnapping. And from his perspective, Ben would likely say he values life more than most other people as he believes he's found a way to conquer death itself. I think being a clone - and not just a clone but a clone many times removed from the original copy - I think he needs to believe that a clone is every bit as valid as the original and his plan was an effort to prove that.

As for being a degenerated clone, that's not an insurmountable problem. He can easily be 'fixed' with a single story, if that's what writers want to do.

Kaine is now back to his previous status of dying due to the clone degeneration because Slott for some reason decided to retcon that it had been the Other who was maintaining him rather than the anti-Venom cure from Spider-Island. So while alive (which we've known he was for over a year), he's now lost his future and is choosing to hunt down Ben rather than find a cure. I'm honestly hoping that PAD figures some way to fix the both of them within the Scarlet Spider series.

As to whether Kaine will continue to hunt Ben rather than find a cure, we'll see. PAD could well have answers to both Ben and Kaine's problems. It's not as though it'd be all that hard for a writer to introduce a solution. Their status at the end of Omega is not the end of their journey.

Peter is at the start of his company falling apart. Between the use of the webware in the previous issue and the reaction from his employee's wife, the people aren't going to be too happy with Parker Industries in the near future. On top of that, he had to lose his loved ones all over again.

Well, it looked like Parker Industries was definitely over once before but then it bounced back in a big way. So this could be the prelude to it ending or it could be just a bump in the road. As I don't believe PI was ever meant to be a permanent part of the book, of course at some point something will occur to undo it. Maybe this is the start of that, maybe not. But either way, if PI does tank eventually, it's fine. Not fun for Peter, no, but if everything went his way all the time, that wouldn't be a very interesting book to follow.

And yeah, he had to lose people again but this was a story that was going to inevitably inflict some pain on characters.

Jameson has not only lost his family for the second time but has also now lost his job at the Fact Channel, being blamed for the outbreak that occured over the airway.

Do we know that JJJ lost his job at the Fact Channel? I wouldn't doubt it but if that was in the story I must've missed it. If he did, he'll just end up somewhere else. I don't think anyone's too attached to his Fact Channel job. I miss him being the Mayor, personally.

As for his personal loss, that's part of the heartbreak of this story - no one emerged unscathed.

Lizard has clearly lost his mind, essentially preserving his family in such an inhumane way that they aren't even themselves anymore. Just looking at the way that his wife and son are acting in the final page, it's clear that his turning the into lizard hybrids has done more harm to them than good. It's akin to someone having their dead love taxidurmined and keeping the body, talking to it as if that person is still there.

Yeah, the Connors are definitely in a very disturbing place. It's creepy and horrific but I don't think happy endings were ever in the cards for the Connors. I'm curious to see what story comes out of this status quo for them.

CC was a story designed to put its characters through an emotional wringer. The fact that it left most of them in a broken, damaged state was just the way the story was meant to go. Not a 'feel good' Spidey tale, no, but I think a fairly compelling one, all told.

[Frontier]

"
Do we know that JJJ lost his job at the Fact Channel? I wouldn't doubt it but if that was in the story I must've missed it. If he did, he'll just end up somewhere else. I don't think anyone's too attached to his Fact Channel job. I miss him being the Mayor, personally.

As for his personal loss, that's part of the heartbreak of this story - no one emerged unscathed.

It was shown in Silk that he lost his job, just as Cindy was quitting.

From the sounds of it he's also ruined his chances of ever telling the news again, which probably rules out going back to the Bugle which is where I would really prefer seeing him back in, given the stuff with the Fact Channel was just chasing the trail of the Bugle. But hey, there's Renew Your Vows .

Yeah, the Connors are definitely in a very disturbing place. It's creepy and horrific but I don't think happy endings were ever in the cards for the Connors. I'm curious to see what story comes out of this status quo for them.

Well, yeah, since Marvel could never leave them alone...and after Curt ate Billy, the only place to go for the Lizard was probably down.

[Kurolegacy]

"Kidnapped innocent people?" I'm not sure about that. He took people who willingly went to New U for help and put them in stasis and gave them clone replacements. Not the nicest thing to do but also not quite as nefarious as kidnapping. And from his perspective, Ben would likely say he values life more than most other people as he believes he's found a way to conquer death itself. I think being a clone - and not just a clone but a clone many times removed from the original copy - I think he needs to believe that a clone is every bit as valid as the original and his plan was an effort to prove that.

As for being a degenerated clone, that's not an insurmountable problem. He can easily be 'fixed' with a single story, if that's what writers want to do.

Except the people who had come to New U had come there for help with their conditions. Putting them into a cryofreeze and replacing them with a clone does qualify as kidnapping as he lured them in with a false promise and took them against their will.

Also in Ben putting these clones in the place of the originals, he's essentially going against his entire epiphany of being a clone but also his own person by shoving them into a role of someone while they are unaware that they aren't that person.

Do we know that JJJ lost his job at the Fact Channel? I wouldn't doubt it but if that was in the story I must've missed it. If he did, he'll just end up somewhere else. I don't think anyone's too attached to his Fact Channel job. I miss him being the Mayor, personally.

As for his personal loss, that's part of the heartbreak of this story - no one emerged unscathed.

It was revealed in Silk that he was fired from the Fact Channel after all that happened.

[rward777]

No I mean they are literally worse off than when they were before this story:

Ben has essentially gone from a hero who was considered to not only be worthy of the Spider-Man mantle but also the man Kaine wished to live up to to an unhinged megalomaniac who's deluded himself into thinking that playing God is alright and when things go wrong with that, is perfectly fine with unleashing a zombie plague on the world. Not only has he lost all sense in the value of life, but he kidnapped innocent people and replaced them with clones even if they had been able to be helped by New U's technology. Also he's now gone from a perfect clone to a degenerated clone the likes of how Kaine used to be.

Kaine is now back to his previous status of dying due to the clone degeneration because Slott for some reason decided to retcon that it had been the Other who was maintaining him rather than the anti-Venom cure from Spider-Island. So while alive (which we've known he was for over a year), he's now lost his future and is choosing to hunt down Ben rather than find a cure. I'm honestly hoping that PAD figures some way to fix the both of them within the Scarlet Spider series.

Peter is at the start of his company falling apart. Between the use of the webware in the previous issue and the reaction from his employee's wife, the people aren't going to be too happy with Parker Industries in the near future. On top of that, he had to lose his loved ones all over again.

Jameson has not only lost his family for the second time but has also now lost his job at the Fact Channel, being blamed for the outbreak that occured over the airway.

Lizard has clearly lost his mind, essentially preserving his family in such an inhumane way that they aren't even themselves anymore. Just looking at the way that his wife and son are acting in the final page, it's clear that his turning the into lizard hybrids has done more harm to them than good. It's akin to someone having their dead love taxidurmined and keeping the body, talking to it as if that person is still there.

To lose a company started by his #2 enemy.

[Prof. Warren]

Except the people who had come to New U had come there for help with their conditions. Putting them into a cryofreeze and replacing them with a clone does qualify as kidnapping as he lured them in with a false promise and took them against their will.

From Ben's point of view, he's still fulfilling his promise to help these people. If they're in cyrofreeze and their clones think they're the original, where's the harm - from Ben's perspective. I'm not saying he's right - only that he ultimately can still view himself as helping those who came to New U.

Also in Ben putting these clones in the place of the originals, he's essentially going against his entire epiphany of being a clone but also his own person by shoving them into a role of someone while they are unaware that they aren't that person.

This is consistent with Ben's view that there is no difference between his clones and the originals, that the difference was so seamless as to be meaningless. You can say he was wrong to believe this but his argument was that his cloning technique was so advanced that it was a rebirth of the exact person and not simply a clone.

Also, the people he cloned (save for Warren) were all people who had died, so there wasn't two of the same walking around. There wasn't a need for any of them to be "their own person", separate from another copy. They were clones but still the same unique individuals they were before.

It was revealed in Silk that he was fired from the Fact Channel after all that happened.

Cool. I don't follow Silk so I wasn't aware. Thanks for the info! Wonder where JJJ will go next?

[Ianbarreilles]

I'm glad spider gwen realized 616 Peter is a jerk maybe she should hookup with kaine? I still think kaine should've been the one to get the new scarlet spider man title I honestly would've liked that I kinda would like to see kaine and spider gwen appear together at some point.

[Prof. Warren]

I'm glad spider gwen realized 616 Peter is a jerk maybe she should hookup with kaine? I still think kaine should've been the one to get the new scarlet spider man title I honestly would've liked that I kinda would like to see kaine and spider gwen appear together at some point.

I wouldn't say she realized he's a "jerk." Kaine said Peter was an idiot not to regard Spider-Gwen as being as "real" as the 616 Gwen but SG herself I think just recognized that Peter's feeling for "his" Gwen would always be a barrier as to how he saw her.

I do like the relationship between Kaine and SG - hopefully they haven't seen the last of each other.

[Vegeta]

I called it on the Lizard family!

Well it was kinda obvious, this is Dr. Curt Connors, 99% of his solutions are "well, maybe if we combine it with some reptile DNA..."

Also, did "Ben" just throw one of those two guys harassing Rita into a bullet? Guess that's at least one non-clone he has killed.

The issue was better than expected, but not good enough to elevate the event that preceded it.

[MagSeven]

Well it was kinda obvious, this is Dr. Curt Connors, 99% of his solutions are "well, maybe if we combine it with some reptile DNA..."

Also, did "Ben" just throw one of those two guys harassing Rita into a bullet? Guess that's at least one non-clone he has killed.

The issue was better than expected, but not good enough to elevate the event that preceded it.

Man this Pizza is soggy when you reheat it in the microwave. Hey, grab that reptile DNA, I've got an idea.

[boots]

i actually really liked this issue, possibly my favourite of the arc. the PAD story was interesting- it seems like ben might become a peter who takes what he wants rather than waits for permission.

the bit with kaine saying he remembers gwen is confusing as hell, since the kaine i know didn't have peter's memories. if he did, his characterisation in the 90s makes zero sense.