Clone Conspiracy OMEGA Spoilers and Discussion

[SpiderClops]

If I have to rate this issue...

First story: awesome. But I'm not sure about Lizard Family
Second story: very good.
Third story: awesome.

[AngelJD]

I read the Clone Conspiracy Omega in the morning. In it had a few parts that didn't sit well with me and some parts I did enjoy (I love the part with the Rhino and Spider-Man and how the two was able to bond a bit and how Peter showed great empathy to him which was the highlight of the issue for me). Particularly one area in the comic that got me a little thrown off was the part when Spider-Gwen is talking to Kaine

"Nothing. He just...he acted like that OTHER Gwen was the real one. Or at least, More Real then Me."

First off this left a bad taste in my mouth or was not written the best way. Gwen of Earth-65 has admitted a few times that she is uncomfortable around 616 Peter as he reminds her of the Earth-65 Peter and friend that died in her arms. This is known well for those who read her series and even after Gwen of Earth-65 got better about it all he still haunts her. So the shoe is right now on the other foot now.
Peter just got hit in the emotions and while she was a clone Gwen she was still 'a Gwen' and far more important she had a life that died and he couldn't save once again (just failing to save a life hits Peter so add emotional baggage to that and it's far worse for him).

Now for my personal opinion on her (the Gwen version that just ?died?) is that her being a clone I see her as a different person from the Gwen of 616 that died however while a different person she still had the rights to live with her own life that was ended. She might not be 616 Gwen Stacy original as she/that Gwen has been gone since the bridge but I see her much like like Peters clones (Ben and Kaine) being a brother Gwen's are her sisters and it feels like for each one Peter has been written to failed. This 'sister' of Gwen was possibly the closest to the 616 Gwen due to unaltered memories that would shape Gwen's personality and experiences/reactions. This version of 'Gwen' even self sacrifice (possibly as like Ben 'no dead body before you...no confirmed result thus is open door for her to come back if some writer on a series not even Spider-man related wants to use her for a idea) herself to help Peter. This Gwen was AS real as Gwen of Earth-65. Not the 'original' 616 but still had her own life and had feelings, consciousness, and had the same rights to life, respect, and happiness. So this Gwen was real and she died and Peter is mourning. Mourning is respectful but painful to experience.

Spider-Gwen mourned/s Earth-65 Peter and that makes things uncomfortable for her to interact with 616 Peter and he feels the same way and had now just gotten another pain of loss and guilt.
The part that burns me is that the writer didn't make Gwen of Earth-65 understand that. This is big as she should be best suited to UNDERSTAND this! That Peter isn't an idiot or jerk but somebody in fresh pain and took a psychological hit despite his far longer experiences. Plus treating like the Gwen that was around less than a few hours ago doesn't matter or is fake/not real thus no sympathy when she very much was a real person felt off. Now I can just chalk that up to Gwen not liking the shade Peter tossed at her and thus her feeling disrespected thus her response came merely from being and feeling hurt herself. May you be clone or from another dimension you exist and should be treated as a individual, real, and given respect and a fair shot even if you are similar or very much not alike one that came beforehand in that dimension you are compared to.

Now it feels like in the comics many of the clones died however so did many of the clones possibly did live. Many of them being Parker villains but based on Clone Conspiracy 4 art and what was told many people living in the world are really clones (if they knew this or not as them being clones vs 'cured' by New U is up for grabs) and the presence of Clones living among the public is now public knowledge. It feels like they are now being hunted down feared and hated (which can be a good reason/tie in to X-men/Wolverine/Laura involvement) and treated like they don't matter/fake/don't exist.
Plus anybody involved in the New U matters are taking heat which could get even more messy if their express knowledge and feelings of and how they feel the ones who came from New U were 'real or fake' to them. They might of been "just clones/fake" for some people but other people like for Jonah they were real and he loved and lost them.

To me this can be a fantastic message and talking points/difference of views and ask the question "what makes a life?". This I feel can be explored outside of even the Spider-man comics to other series as other characters can have a difference of opinion of the lives of being who so happen to be born of science/clones and their rights.


Furthermore thinking about it Johan also lost his dad within this same time frame and now lost his job and credibility. We might not only see Peter back to being 'status quo' poor soon but he and Johan will be unfortunate together and as Clone Conspiracy points out Johan was the one who gave Peter a job and a shot in his past but Peter won't be able to help Johan out soon.


I had hoped that this new born from science version of 'Gwen' would have live (and can still reveal that she did (in my head I have a idea/hope how but I know won't happen)). I think a big part of me wanted her to live is seemly because I immediately expect her to die when the title 'Clone Conspiracy' came out and I didn't like feeling I knew where it was already heading just from a title and wanted something different going against my expectation yet positive and well written to happen. I did enjoy Amazing Spider-man 23 issue and her time during Clone Conspiracy 5 so I had a small hope but in the end disappointed that things went basically how I figured it would go.



Now the speech Kaine gave Gwen after her comment was a bit confusing. I didn't understand where it came from or how he somehow knew Earth-65 Gwen Stacy cared what original Earth-616 Gwen Stacy would feel about her based on only her comment. Now considering his response and how the Gwen in Clone Conspiracy seemed interested and called her a superior version it seems to be that Kaine would be mostly right in his statement about how 616 Gwen would feel about 65 Gwen.

[Kurolegacy]

i actually really liked this issue, possibly my favourite of the arc. the PAD story was interesting- it seems like ben might become a peter who takes what he wants rather than waits for permission.

the bit with kaine saying he remembers gwen is confusing as hell, since the kaine i know didn't have peter's memories. if he did, his characterisation in the 90s makes zero sense.

When it comes to Kaine, he has Peter's memories up til college just the clone degeneration messed him up in the head which is why he was always more rash compared to Ben. At least that's how I've always seen it.

[boots]

When it comes to Kaine, he has Peter's memories up til college just the clone degeneration messed him up in the head which is why he was always more rash compared to Ben. At least that's how I've always seen it.

yeah I've seen other people post similar beliefs here but that wasn't the 90s depiction, which made sense with kaine's willingness to kill and his poor man's shakespeare dialogue of the time. giving him peter's memories of family kinda negates his father/son relationship with the jackal.

[SilverSpider]

This story has left me with mixed feelings.
As follows:
-Rhino and Spidey scene was well written, and was very touching. It shows just how much selfcontrol Peter has that after all this mess he doesn't just lash out, but focuses on helping people.
-See Ben even if the whole situation was engineered by you, didn't it feel good to be the hero, maybe you shuld look into that.
-Everyone saw the Lizard family coming, no suprise there, it is horrible, but what choice did Connors have, he knew that Spider-Man was gonna try to save everyone, but as a scientist and crazy lizard person, he coudn't risk waiting for things to unfold.
-As for Spider-Gwen yes Peter was a bit of a jerk, but he has been through emotional hell, I don't believe he was being mean because he was angry, more that he was frustrated. I do believe she overreacted a bit, with that dis she did, it sounded too harsh, That doesn't mean Kain is wrong however Peter is an idiot, a naive, goodwilled idiot.
-So Kain is going after Ben that should be interesting, I hope he cures his own degenaration in the process.

I was disappointed in the Spider-Gwen Peter thing, feel like it could have been handled better. Ben still didn't get his realitycheck that I was hoping for.
But I really digged the Rhino scene.
I would reallly like Parker Industries to survive, I hope that instead of a worldwide company, it would turn into a small business dedicated to research. It would allow Peter for more control over his company, and more time spent on crimefighting, without it hurting the company.

[xpyred]

As much as I dislike Gwen, it would have been "nice" if they did something different with her. Her constant deaths remind me of something Jean Grey once told Cyclops; "all I ever did was die on you" so something to that affect. Seriously - all Gwen dies is die. They may as well give her some of the Phoenix force at this point.

[theoneandonly]

good overall issue with everyone getting set up for the future arcs of the stories but it kind of felt oddly lacking that kingpin never referred to or asked about the fate of jackal given he was so pissed of at him. well O'Connor is giving of chthulu vibes and I woudnt be surprised if we get a arc where he tries to set himself up as god of lizard men whom he shall create.lol. the rhino was quickly brought under control with the empathy peter displayed but I just felt he was looking more like a jumbo. Kaine calling out peter on his naïveté and peter calling him out for his cynicism and distrust which kind of contributed to the situation was the highlight of the issue and too bad it was resolved so soon.

[Spiderfang]

Isn't there one more issue of omega before the new Ben Reilly series is slated to drop? So perhaps he'll get his act together by then, or at least seek out a therapist or have a beating of the minds wit Kaine and/or Spider-Man.

[theoneandonly]

well it was a good issue overall which set up the respective characters for their future arcs. I think the kingpin not inquiring or referring to the jackals fate was strange given he was offended by what he did. Well spiderman empathy towards jumbo er rhino brought a volatile situation under control quickly. Kaine calling out peter for his naiveity and peter calling him out for his cynical approach and distrust was the highlight of the issue for me as it showed the new status quo among the brothers being outs with each other instead of being happy that each one of themof them is alive after superior,spiderverse and the saga with one totally gone off the edge a far cry from the unity and depth of unsaid affection which was shown among them in spiderverse especially the bond between Ben and Kaine where bens sacrifice totally pushed all his buttons and he singlehandedly killed the oldest inheritor who was able to kill a cosmic powered sipder. so sad those days are now far behind. wonder what Kaine has in mind for Ben now that their roles have reversed with Ben becoming the bad boy of the clones. Speaking of Ben didn't he have any other stash apart from the one that got burnt? It also shows what a expert manipulator he has become when he is able to fool his dupe by exactly stating what he had done and Ber taking it as a joke or maybe the god doctor wasn't thinking much clearly after all her harrowing experience.

[boots]

Isn't there one more issue of omega before the new Ben Reilly series is slated to drop? So perhaps he'll get his act together by then, or at least seek out a therapist or have a beating of the minds wit Kaine and/or Spider-Man.

i don't think you can have 2 omega issues

[Spiderfang]

i don't think you can have 2 omega issues

I could have sworn that there would be an CC Omega #1 and things would be ending with CC Omega #2

[Prof. Warren]

I could have sworn that there would be an CC Omega #1 and things would be ending with CC Omega #2

Nope, just the one.

[Kurolegacy]

Isn't there one more issue of omega before the new Ben Reilly series is slated to drop? So perhaps he'll get his act together by then, or at least seek out a therapist or have a beating of the minds wit Kaine and/or Spider-Man.

No it's just that the next issue of ASM has a bonus story that acts as a lead-in to Ben's solo like it's done with Spider-Man 2099, Silk, Spider-Woman, ect.

[Digifiend]

I found it visually repulsive, on a visceral level. Especially since Martha and Billy's faces are not fully reptilian but just scaly while still human. If my reaction was what Slott, Gage and Smith intended then they succeeded.

Yeah - if they're reptilian, why do they still have hair?

Notice that it said "The end...?" - there's probably some sort of follow up coming. That was NOT a happily ever after ending, even if Curt thinks it is.

[AngelJD]

As much as I dislike Gwen, it would have been "nice" if they did something different with her. Her constant deaths remind me of something Jean Grey once told Cyclops; "all I ever did was die on you" so something to that affect. Seriously - all Gwen dies is die. They may as well give her some of the Phoenix force at this point.

I agree.


I'm annoyed with her constant deaths as well in the 616 world. I love many versions of 'Gwen' but to be honest the 616 version of the original Gwen is not one of my favorites in compassion to the many stronger/likable and different varieties of Gwens in the Multiverse (that doesn't mean she can't be if a good writer develops her somehow and the stories works but as of right now she on the lower end of the Gwen least to most favorite versions of Gwen Stacys).

However if you have a Gwen of 616 be born I hope it is not just for one (attempted) good story but something more long term thus more relevant to have her around (and hopefully develop into a stronger character that people can bond with today). Not to be born then kill her instantly again and again. It's getting annoying.
As I wrote I had hoped that this new born from science version of 'Gwen' would have live (and can still reveal that she did (in my head I have a idea/hope how but I know won't happen)). I think a big part of me wanted her to live is seemly because I immediately expect her to die when the title 'Clone Conspiracy' came out and I didn't like feeling I knew where it was already heading just from a title and wanted something different going against my expectation yet positive and well written to happen. I did enjoy Amazing Spider-man 23 issue and her time during Clone Conspiracy 5 so I had a small hope but in the end disappointed that things went basically how I figured it would go.

Now somehow if that aspect can be used as a storyline somehow with the "Phoenix Force" then maybe some comic logic/powers could happen.
Like the reason this 616 Gwen dies all the time is because that is her power/curse (placed on her in purpose or by accident) by either a cosmic being or a god like magic user (thus develop a reason why a 616 Gwen always dies or if the first 616 Gwen truly comes back her death having more value then just to remove her again and again). A death and rebirth that she openly accepts for the fate of the Earth somehow.

I don't know much about the "Phoenix Force". Could this "Phoenix Force' be used in a good storyline somehow that can make (the original) 616 Gwen's death and consistent 'rebirth' relevant and important for the 616 universe and characters? Where her death is not a tragedy but a necessary (but out of mercy from the writers 616 Gwen would be granted 24 hours time before dying and reborn randomly in the future again and again)? I came into comics around 2014 and I only know it's linked to the X-men series and since it's called "Phoenix Force" I figured it has to do with the circle of life, death, rebirth, repeat.