The inevitable how would *you* do a Ben Reilly series?

[boots]

just reread spider-verse team up which has the other "modern" take on ben reilly, as the super confident optimist spider-man. i was trying to imagine that book existing alongside asm and couldn't (even as an alt universe book).

so, opening up to you people. marvel have just fired the entire writing roster and recruited from the cbr message boards. pitch your ben reilly concept.

[theoneandonly]

I dont think I have any ideas on Ben in his series expect he may turn out to be like captian atom after his brief monarch phase which was then swept under the rug or like hank pym he may turn to being deluded but regaining sanity perodically or completely unscrupulous but also psychotic like grim reaper or simply ultron wanting to replace humanity with clones subservient to him. I wonder if the recent storyline would have been more appropriately titled as clone wars as that was what it amounted to at the end with one faction of clones fighting for freedom from Bens deluded benevolent form of tyranny and other faction fighting for ben for simply survival. The one clone faction was headed by Otto who is a clone at the same time has the experience of being parker and on the other side is the discarded Ben clone back with a vengeance and ready to clone everone and everything and who also has experience of being peter albeit only through memories. The recent clone conspiracy seemed more like a civil war of clones.

[Huntsman Spider]

I'd do it with inspiration from Marvel Anime: Iron Man's take on Yinsen and Batman's Under the Red Hood story arc. To start with, the Ben Reilly that turned to dust and ash upon his death by the Green Goblin wasn't actually Ben, but a clone rapidly whipped up and loaded with Ben's memories to die in his place while Miles Warren swiped Ben out from under Norman Osborn's nose, intending to use and condition Ben as his secret weapon against Osborn, payback for Osborn manipulating him as well as Peter and Ben (and even Kaine). However, Ben escaped from Warren before the conditioning could fully take and after finding out that Peter had become Spider-Man again, he felt like he had nothing to go back to and so returned to the life of a drifter, trying to find his own place in the world. His journey eventually took him to South America, where he was sheltered by a band of spider worshippers who recognized him as an avatar of the Great Weaver and taught him to find some semblance of inner peace by communing with the Web of Life and his "inner spider," so to speak.

Unfortunately, one day the Temple of the Great Weaver was sacked by Norman Osborn's mercenaries, the War Goblins, using weaponized Parker Industries technology with the Parker Industries logo still attached. In his grief, Ben was swayed by a mysterious someone, privy to Parker Industries' CEO's secret identity, into believing that Peter had turned his back on his responsibilities and thus proven unworthy of calling himself Spider-Man, and that it was time for a true "Superior Spider-Man" to take his place and set things right. Maddened by so much death and devastation around him, and manipulated into placing the blame on his "brother" Peter, Ben schemed to prove himself a better Spider-Man than Peter, taking up the Superior Spider-Man costume (but modified). He also went to the trouble of building an international shadow organization out of criminal gangs he'd taken over by butchering their leadership and funding said organization with technological resources stolen from corporations like Roxxon, Alchemax, Cross, and even Parker and Stark, all for the express purpose of proving that Peter was a failure as Spider-Man by doing what in his mind Peter never had the "courage" to do: permanently put down the scum of the Earth, with Norman Osborn at the top of his list.

Unbeknownst to him, though, his manipulator's real plan was to replace everyone Ben took down with clones loyal to himself so that he could coopt their organizations and resources, and Norman Osborn would be the coup de grace, since with Osborn under his control, he would achieve the ultimate revenge for his beloved's death, and Ben would at that point outlive his usefulness. Of course, with a so-called "True Superior Spider-Man" running loose, that would get the attention of both Peter Parker and Otto Octavius's downloaded consciousness inside the Living Brain, the latter taking special offense to some "pretender" mocking him, while Peter would be trying to figure out if the new Superior Spider-Man was another clone or someone else who'd somehow gained spider-powers like Miles Morales or Miguel O'Hara from 2099. Eventually, Ben's manipulator would similarly manipulate Peter into fighting Ben with a distorted account of Ben's recent actions that obscured his motivations and/or the truth behind said motivations and the manipulator's own role in what had transpired. In the process of that confrontation, Peter and Ben would realize that they'd both been played, though Ben would still go after Osborn, screaming at Peter about how many people Peter was willing to let Osborn hurt, ruin, or kill before he realized he had no choice but to kill Osborn himself, saying that there was "only one cure for monsters like him." Of course, Osborn would have a trap lying in wait for Peter and Ben, just like before, and when the Spider-Men set off the trap, it would explode in all of their faces, with Ben disappearing into the darkness to track down and punish his manipulator, which would be the focus of his solo series, at least for the first arc or so.

[Scott Taylor]

He'd have a vendetta against Norman Osborn for causing all the grief of the second Clone Saga. He'd spend all his time dismantling Norman's schemes and protecting the world from his machinations. So Norman would be the overarching saga here, with the added benefit that we wouldn't have to see Norman over in Peter's book anymore.

Other than that, I'd have him find true love, make peace with Kaine, maybe start teaming him up with other Marvel characters.

[Huntsman Spider]

He'd have a vendetta against Norman Osborn for causing all the grief of the second Clone Saga. He'd spend all his time dismantling Norman's schemes and protecting the world from his machinations. So Norman would be the overarching saga here, with the added benefit that we wouldn't have to see Norman over in Peter's book anymore.

Other than that, I'd have him find true love, make peace with Kaine, maybe start teaming him up with other Marvel characters.

That actually works better than my idea. He could pick up where Kaine left off after Marvel decided to abandon the original intended plotline by Tom DeFalco of Peter eventually finding baby May still alive, just kidnapped to be raised by Osborn as a weapon against Peter, in favor of bringing back Aunt May. Since the end of Superior Spider-Man, which had Osborn "cured" of the Goblin Formula and its attendant madness, Osborn's been busy building a new criminal empire on international arms dealing, using Liz Allan as his puppet CEO for Alchemax, and now even worming his way into actual political power by destabilizing African and Eastern European countries with his mercenaries and weapons dealing. That would definitely be something Ben would be interested in (violently) shutting down, and even more, he could represent the dark side of Spider-Man's newfound "worldwide" status courtesy of Parker Industries, fighting crime and corruption in the international underworld while pursuing Osborn.

I could see him ending up in Madripoor to bust one of Osborn's operations and ending up in an alliance with Jessan Hoan/Tyger Tiger, if not also crossing paths with Laura Kinney/All-New Wolverine, who has her own reasons to be in Madripoor. Then there's him running afoul of Mister Sinister again (see X-Men/Spider-Man #3) and finding out about the clones of him Sinister made in Wolverines #5, plus maybe encountering Miss Sinister/Claudine Renko, who's been unseen in comics since her appearance in Laura's previous ongoing (X-23), which could dovetail into a team-up with Laura as well. Hell, I just really like the idea of Ben encountering the other prominent heroic clone in Marvel Comics and them bonding over learning to be their own people and not be bound by their progenitors or by what their creators intended them to be.

[Vixx]

My never happen story:

I'd close out the Sins stuff with a part 3.. Sins redeemed or something.

First it would start with an expiration date. Sandman style. Primary purpose is tell good stories. Secondary purpose is to clean things up. After which Ben, and his cast, roll back as a recurring charector in the regular books, popping up every so often. He'd lose a lot of his charm over time IMO if he's appearing monthly.

I'd have him based in Seattle or someplace young and hipsterish ... Flying under the radar with a lot of stuff to work through...but optimistic, loving life even if he doesn't understand everything.

I think he'd have a good supporting cast, some from before.

He'd be disappointed in Pete - for a number of reasons; which gives him enough reason to stay away from "his" family - but he'd still connect with one of the spider gang to vent and stay connected. Probally MJ.

He'd fucking hate Norman , and the Jackal. Given half a chance - he'd want to tear Normans brain out his peehole by the spinal column - but in a heroic spider friendly way....

Think I'd offload a lot of the clone baggage onto him - let him dig into the details... So the ASM title can move on.

The kicker - I'd eventually have him cross paths with Gwen. Not a clone.

She fled New York and decided to stay dead... I'd update her a bit to be a bit more dragon tattoo ish. Not too look at, just in attitude.

Turns out she spent a year or three kidnapped, in stasis, drifting in and out of consciousness and haunted by the memories and missing time - but she escaped from a lair....possibly deep in the warehouse where Harry first appeared as the goblin.. She heard them, unable to call out, heard them call each other by their first names... And heard them leave... Leaving her alone in the dark, crying, realizing she's alone and has to save herself..with only the glow and whir of machines mixed with her thoughts as she drifted out of consciousness

She knows Pete is Spider-Man; and just wants to be done with the whole spider drama.. Plus is a bit spooked on Norman and Harry showing up.

Think she'd stay in contact with Liz - whose kept her mouth shut, and helped fund her. She'd do techish work, but kind of off the grid. Liz is the one charector that knows the Goblin curse and could sympothize with Gwen IMO. Think Liz is an unsung bad ass.

She knew her clone - well. "Joyce" is like a version of herself before all the **** happened to her - and she's pretty well adjusted to all this super hero stuff... Her death really hits her ...Digging into her death has made her hate Jackal and tempered her bad feelings for Peter.

She can bond with Ben a bit and work out some of her Peter demons... He'd be familiar but different to her .. Like a better version of Peter ...and provide something she hasn't had in a longtime - safe harbor, family, etc...

She'd update us on the real sins part story - as what we've been told is bullshit.

Together they'd go after taking Norman down piece by piece.. Starting at the edges, but wouldn't play by Peters rule book. They give each other courage and can be brutal if needed... Not Kaine, not cruel .. More like Vic Mackey beating a suspect with a phone book to get a child back type

Eventually the lair she was held in would be discovered - Pete would check it out; and find clues of what went on there... Newspapers from that time, early versions of the equipment may was held in and cloning equipment, different enough from the typical man cave lair discoveries .. Even Harry wouldn't know about this place ....... And he'd find something in the tank that slipped off in her haste to escape ... Something uniquely Gwen - maybe a piece of Jewelry that Was his moms he gave her - and something diffinitive to show she lived - like footsteps and drip marks in the dust... Fingerprints where she crawled out .. Whatever... And it would torture him on why she'd not reach out... He'd start looking for her.

I think she'd find out she was the lynchpin to the cloning efforts - something about her makes that possible... Which is why she's been ground zero for so long, and her clones do really really well - which would help Ben in his research.

Keep the whole thing shrouded in mystery with bits coming out in drive and drabs... Basically hunting Nofmsn in a way that would make Krsven proud...they would (in a comic friendly way) **** him up lol

Don't think they'd "date", they arent at a place where thats feasible ...and would fight it...but if there is a lesson learned from her death it's living these lives takes a toll - and they'd both be a bit battered - but it's their simple desire for the kind of normal human connection - the **** most take for granted on s say to day basis - that makes them gravitate towards each other and provides their depth.

they'd act like they should date (or have dated) and take a bit of comfort in being around each other. They'd laugh, and joke, and be vulnerable around each other ...They clearly lean on each other... Maybe cuddle up when it's rainy - but it's clear the future is a question mark.. No white picket fences and 2.5 kids path right now. (Oh and she'd be cooking breakfast wearing only his hoodie at least once ... If for no other reason that to give a big middle finger to the whole not sleeping together bullshit...maybe they aren't - but they are adults, and Ben would still have stong feelings - he never dated MJ... Plus, stealing favorite clothes is what girls do.)

If she ever came out of the shadows, the modern media would be all over her...Facebook, Twitter, tmz... And I picture her bee lining at Norman as Gwen ( while Ben goes after the goblin at night)...

At the end - it would clear up and out a lot of the residue and dig deep into ASM - usual suspects style ...to streamline line things and provide a jump off point.

Oh - and Norman would wind up poor, talking to himself and lose control of his company.

They've always beaten the goblin - this time they beat Norman. They absolutely fucking crater him.. They break his toys ...and if only for a moment, he's not confident, he's vulnerable, no heirs, no legacy, pathetic. Setting up the story of how he regroups to get it all .. And more... back.

Id also have Ben be the conduit towards Pete and MJ getting back together - not married, but back in sync heading towards something awesome.

When done the clone stuff would be over - an epic threaded just under the surface through the book from ASM #1... But done. Dead. Fucking finished.

Either this or a shitty rehash/mashup of the safe arcs from the last 10 years lol

[Celgress]

First off no supervillain or dark edgy anti-hero Ben. We have Kaine for that role.

Next, I'd move Ben far away from Peter's traditional base like say to Hong Kong, Tokyo or Hawaii. Give him room to establish himself and grow.

[Huntsman Spider]

First off no supervillain or dark edgy anti-hero Ben. We have Kaine for that role.

Next, I'd move Ben far away from Peter's traditional base like say to Hong Kong, Tokyo or Hawaii. Give him room to establish himself and grow.

Ben Reilly in Hawaii sounds like it could be fun, like a superhero version of Hawaii 5-0. Vixx's idea sounds pretty epic, come to think of it, and Ben in Seattle trying to work out his issues and staying under the radar makes me think of James Cameron's Dark Angel (another bioengineered superhuman on the run, trying to survive without drawing too much attention from potential pursuers). The Space Needle would be a wonderful spot to see him perched in those classic Spider-Man poses.

[SilverSpider]

New Start: Ben is searching for ways to fake his identity plastic surgeon, fake papers, and paints his hair red this time. It turns out his informant betrayed him to some of his surviving clone villains who try to kill him. They try to take over Ben's mind, who in turn sees his entire life flash in front of him, suddenly he realizes that the Jackal's torture didn't devalue his life, it was him making the bad decisions because of it. At this moment Ben understands that being ruthless in doing what he believes is good, doesn't make him a good hero, it instead makes him more like Warren. As he fights his way he saves girl Electro's life from falling debries. He can't defeat them all on his own, but he does manage to escape. Determined to rediscover the world, and find new direction Ben sets out to discover the world not as a way of avenging all that wronged him ,rather realizing that he made lots of mistakes, that his life is still his own, and only he can make it right again.

[Aioros22]

Whatever it is I do want to see Ben fight Norman off over old wounds.

[Huntsman Spider]

New Start: Ben is searching for ways to fake his identity plastic surgeon, fake papers, and paints his hair red this time. It turns out his informant betrayed him to some of his surviving clone villains who try to kill him. They try to take over Ben's mind, who in turn sees his entire life flash in front of him, suddenly he realizes that the Jackal's torture didn't devalue his life, it was him making the bad decisions because of it. At this moment Ben understands that being ruthless in doing what he believes is good, doesn't make him a good hero, it instead makes him more like Warren. As he fights his way he saves girl Electro's life from falling debries. He can't defeat them all on his own, but he does manage to escape. Determined to rediscover the world, and find new direction Ben sets out to discover the world not as a way of avenging all that wronged him ,rather realizing that he made lots of mistakes, that his life is still his own, and only he can make it right again.

This is probably going to be one of the best ideas here, that actually works with what happened in The Clone Conspiracy and redeems it somewhat, with Ben coming to an epiphany that his recent actions were the wrong way to try to reclaim his life and sense of self and he needs to figure out what the right way to do that is, at least for himself if no one else. And to go with what Celgress said, it doesn't need to be a "dark and edgy" story; it can easily be a more inspiring, uplifting arc of how someone finds their way back from the darkness and edge. Sort of like how All-New Wolverine is trying to be for Laura Kinney, which reminds me that she and Ben really should meet at some point, and I'm not counting the Scarlet Spiders created by Mister Sinister over in Wolverines #5-6.

[Mister Mets]

I'd have Ben Reilly try to come back to his senses, and balance superhero adventures with existential questions (When he was the Jackal was that the real Ben Reilly? Did he have a nervous breakdown or a malfunction? Is he the equivalent of a man in every way that counts, or something else?)

I'd also have him travel around a lot, given that was the experience he had that differed from Peter's. He would go to places that need superheroes.

[Huntsman Spider]

I'd have Ben Reilly try to come back to his senses, and balance superhero adventures with existential questions (When he was the Jackal was that the real Ben Reilly? Did he have a nervous breakdown or a malfunction? Is he the equivalent of a man in every way that counts, or something else?)

I'd also have him travel around a lot, given that was the experience he had that differed from Peter's. He would go to places that need superheroes.

Your idea, I like, too, and it could have shades of the classic Incredible Hulk TV series, with Ben trying to do good wherever he goes and yet not being able to stay in any one place for long because he's being pursued by a vengeful Kaine.

[stillanerd]

Well, if one the requirements is using the current "Ben Reilly" as he is now, that he still was driven to the point of madness by being constantly killed and re-cloned multiple times by the Jackal, the way I'd approach him would also takes some cues from Red Hood via Batman: Under the Hood, but also the CEO in Spider-Man: Edge of Time video game, and the Vic Mackey character from television series, The Shield.

Now, "Ben Reilly" believes he's still acting on the principle of "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility," right? That's what his whole "I'm bringing dead people back to life through cloning" was supposed to be all about. But let's not also forget that he has memories of wandering the country for five years, meaning he got to see all sorts of people from different walks of life outside of New York. People with different backgrounds, politics, religious beliefs, economic status, etc. Which means he believes he has a better grasp on people, and assumes that Peter's (and his) approach as Spider-Man was hopelessly naive. After all, what did Peter ever do with his "great power" and "responsibility?" He just dressed up in his pajamas and beat up crooks and other costumed weirdos. Even after becoming the CEO of his own company, that's all he's still ever doing. And the result is Peter, after all these years, is still fighting the same bad guys over and over while the people he cares about suffer and die in the cross-hairs. If he really wanted to prevent other deaths like Uncle Ben, then Peter needed to prevent crimes before they even happen. And the best way to do that, is to beat them at their own game.

Thus, "Ben Reilly" sets himself up in Detroit and, with a like minded crew of people he can trust, sets about to break-up the various street gangs and organized criminal operations...and takes them over. The money and weapons he seizes as The Scarlet Spider are used to finance his operations, and also provide funding to schools, hospitals, charities, environmental clean-up, and scientific research. And also the city council and police departments so as they can look the other way. He regulates the selling of drugs to specific areas, with kids being off limits. And any criminal or unsanctioned super villain who violates his rules is punished accordingly. And, he can better hide is anonymity by having multiple people be a "Scarlet Spider" to patrol specific neighborhoods, with their powers derived from tablets giving them low-grade spider-powers for 24 hours. And once this is successful, he can repeat this in other crime-ridden cities, cutting deals with other crime bosses. Those who refuse, he'll eliminate and have their organizations co-opted into his.

Peter Parker protests, "You many think what you're doing is right, Ben, but it's not. The Ben Reilly I know would never have stooped to becoming a criminal, let alone a Michael Corleone wannabe." To which Ben Reilly says, "Always with the jokes, eh Pete? Well, I got news for you, bro: We've been criminals ever since Uncle Ben died! We've taken the law into our own hands ever since we went after that Burglar. For God's sake, we've profited off catching bad guys whenever we sold pictures to the Daily Bugle. We may have the same memories, but at least I've learned to stop lying to myself." Basically, the idea would be to explore and test Peter's notions of "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility," and that if his literal double is capable of this, does that mean he is, too?

[Huntsman Spider]

Hmm, I think this might be the best idea here now. I'm not saying that just to flatter, I'm saying that because I genuinely think so, although I should mention that by the mechanics of superhero conventions, Ben Reilly would have to end up being proven definitively wrong for Peter to seem justified in maintaining his own beliefs, however "naïve." Jason Todd and the CEO both turned out to be unhinged maniacs, and Vic Mackey turned out to be a sociopathic thug and coward who was willing to turn his back on his so-called ethics and principles, such as they were, to avoid getting himself thrown in prison for all he'd done. Of course, Jason Todd did mellow out to the point he was trying to be a hero again, but on his own terms and not exactly caring about Batman's approval or lack thereof, so I could see Ben Reilly, both your version and what canon has presently given us to work with, eventually heading the same way.