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[ExodusCloak]

Why are you acting like Xavier did that himself, when the entity became a being that was separate from him?



"I've developed a life and awareness of my own, quite apart from yours"

It even states they're the same being. Not just once but a few times. It was him even when it developed an awareness of its own while he slept. It stated it was still him.

He didn't destroy it he suppressed his dark side.

[DurararaFTW]

His dream was an absolute failure. And that's why they had a million other mutants with different ethos pop up since.

Cable, Emma, Shaw, Kitty Pryde, Call me Havok, etc...

And saying Xavier is no saint when his death count is bigger then Magneto really?

Xavier's dream and Magnetos dream died in Morrisons run. They were old relics, old farts, caught up in both their own prejuidices and their actions are seen through rose tinted glasses and brainwashing of X-Men - The animated series. Jason Aaron touched on this with Kid Omega as did Morrison.

This is why he even said he failed when Cyclops succeeded in Utopia.

The darkness that Xavier suppresses within him.

Xavier failing and Xavier's dream AKA the mission of the X-Men to help humans and mutants coexist failing are two different things. It was never a race between which leader accomplished what first. Or at least it shouldn't be, they are all X-men, in it together.

[Dum Dum Dugan]

It even states they're the same being. Not just once but a few times. It was him even when it developed an awareness of its own while he slept. It stated it was still him.

He didn't destroy it he suppressed his dark side.

It came from him but developed its own sentience. So saying Xavier himself destroyed those planets is a little misleading. It's like blaming him for Cassandra Nova because she was his mummudrai.

[chaosfist]

Except she does not know it.

And if she wanted BB would be dead now she could have done this a long time ago when she and Dazzler knocked him down.
Of course Emma wants revenge if my wife had been killed by a toxic alien cloud I would want revenge too .

If you really love someone and Emma loved Scott it's impossible do not even think about revenge for a minute. And if it was only about revenge Emma would have killed the Inhumans from the backs of the X-mens when she had a chance.

But the Inhumans have escaped to her this is a perfect opportunity to get revenge.

So revenge is OK? When my friends were killed in Iraq it would have been OK for me to kill any Muslim I came across to get revenge? That's the exact same scenario as here. I mean there were thousands killed in 9-11, we should have got revenge for all those people too. In fact we probably should just eliminate as many Muslims as possible to be safe and get revenge.
This is what you guys are talking about. So next time you feel the need to criticize a dumb redneck talking the crazy stuff I am here remember that you too have the capacity to do the same thing if the situation is right.

[Xelossik]

So revenge is OK? When my friends were killed in Iraq it would have been OK for me to kill any Muslim I came across to get revenge? That's the exact same scenario as here. I mean there were thousands killed in 9-11, we should have got revenge for all those people too. In fact we probably should just eliminate as many Muslims as possible to be safe and get revenge.
This is what you guys are talking about. So next time you feel the need to criticize a dumb redneck talking the crazy stuff I am here remember that you too have the capacity to do the same thing if the situation is right.

Yeah. You are right.
That's wrong. It is hard to read that X-men fans support this kinf of revenge. Especially X-men stories should show that this is wrong.
X-men fan

[dragonmp93]

so revenge is ok? When my friends were killed in iraq it would have been ok for me to kill any muslim i came across to get revenge? That's the exact same scenario as here. I mean there were thousands killed in 9-11, we should have got revenge for all those people too. In fact we probably should just eliminate as many muslims as possible to be safe and get revenge.
This is what you guys are talking about. So next time you feel the need to criticize a dumb redneck talking the crazy stuff i am here remember that you too have the capacity to do the same thing if the situation is right.

Build the wall !!! Build the wall !!!!! Build the wall !!!!!.

[dragonmp93]

Yeah. You are right.
That's wrong. It is hard to read that X-men fans support this kinf of revenge. Especially X-men stories should show that this is wrong.
X-men fan

Well, if the last decade of X-books has teached me something; is that revenge is the right thing to do.

[Xelossik]

Well, if the last decade of X-books has teached me something; is that revenge is the right thing to do.

I think that correct world is: cool(or fun or interesting) not right.
unless i missed some X-men stories.

[People Of The Earth]

Attached the pages if the url doesn't load:

That's the face of evil, alright.
People should just embrace her villainy and move on at this point.

I think the key thing here is that it shows fairly conclusively, though there will always be those who argue with what is shown on panel, that if anyone was "Right" it was Havok.

The heart of the issue on these forums has always seemed to be (from my POV) that X-fans have argued the necessity of doing whatever it takes to stop the cloud while Inhumans supporters have argued that the way the X-Folks have gone about it is counterproductive and wrong. One side saying there is no other way, the other saying that there were other ways and that this option was chosen because due to ill-intent. We see here that by her own admission it was always Emma's intent to kill as many inhumans as possible. That she had built her entire plan with the endgame being slaughter.

The way I see it, and I am confident that other people will argue this to suit their own narratives, if you make a plan that has mass murder as one of its objectives then you had the option of making one that did not. She looked at the options that resulted in less death and she rejected them. Kill Black Bolt at the first opportunity? The majority of other X-Folks, like Storm who insisted repeatedly that she was only willing to go along with it because it wasn't about killing anyone, would turn against her plan and she would end up with only one scalp on her belt. Arrange to have all the Royals killed in Limbo? Couldn't do it herself and the amount of manpower needed to do so would get noticed by the other mutants and again, they turn against her. Talk things out with the Inhumans? Risk the fact they may be reasonable and you have no pretense to throw your entire race into the war that you feel you need to get the manpower to do all the killing you desire.

Havok's statement wasn't about the cross purposes of their people, re: terrigen, causing a conflict. He was pointing out that the fact that that conflict took the form that it did...that it escalated to a War, was due to Emma and by extension Scott. At the end of the day, he was right. The cloud could have been dealt with other ways, the two races could have worked out their disagreement in other ways, there could have been a peaceful resolution to this entire matter...the reason there isn't is not because of the Inhumans. It is because of Emma Frost. She was petty in her desire for revenge and she let that blind her to superior alternatives for resolution. She was evil in that the only form of restitution she would accept for the accidental death of her loved one was the murder of, not one, but many Inhumans.

She put herself above her people. She acted in a way that no morality can justify. She was wrong.

Emma was wrong.

#closethread.

Now, can we talk of the senior X-MEN leadership's failures that led to this point, or is that too soon ?

[dragonmp93]

That's the face of evil, alright.
People should just embrace her villainy and move on at this point.



#closethread.

Now, can we talk of the senior X-MEN leadership's failures that led to this point, or is that too soon ?

Who ?, the Professor's dream being just a dteam ?, Wolverine bowing down to the Avengers ?, Storm being useless ?.

[Fokken]

You guys, Emma can be right and the Inhumans' position can still be understood. It's entirely possible to find the grey area in this conflict.

If I were a mutant I'd fight like hell to destroy that cloud, no matter what, regardless of the consequences or possible retaliation. Let the Inhumans kill me if they must, but not by way of that freakin' cloud! Death by the cloud is a certainty, death by the Inhumans themselves would merely be a battle.

But if I were an Inhuman, particularly a Royal, I wouldn't allow it to be destroyed until as late a humanly possible. It's the lifeblood of the Inhuman population and without it no Inhuman will ever truly be Inhuman. If there's even a one percent chance mutantkind AND Inhumanity could simultaneously be salvage, I would protect it with my army.

I don't get why everyone's having a hard time wrapping their head around BOTH sides. Sure, not every angle has been spelled out well by the writers, but with a little mental assistance, this has been a pretty good story so far. And that's the first time I've said that in a LONG time about a Marvel crossover (and it's not just because I'm biased by my love of mutants and Inhumans, as they've both had sizable roles in recent events--especially the Inhumans).

redrunner97 for the ever-lovin' WIN.

I agree, whole heartedly. Its all a matter of perspective and I've really enjoyed this crossover-- much to my surprise.

[Wiccan]

I've been enjoying the event too, it has been a lot better than I thought. Things don't feel forced or absurd, the X-Men are being treated with respect and I really appreciate that the Nuhumans are actually being written as they should instead of them being like "Well, they're Inhumans, so they're just gonna fight by the Royals side and fuck logic". But I'm still worried about the end, DOX was good until the final issue, and now I find it worst than AVX.

[Knives]

So revenge is OK? When my friends were killed in Iraq it would have been OK for me to kill any Muslim I came across to get revenge? That's the exact same scenario as here. I mean there were thousands killed in 9-11, we should have got revenge for all those people too. In fact we probably should just eliminate as many Muslims as possible to be safe and get revenge.
This is what you guys are talking about. So next time you feel the need to criticize a dumb redneck talking the crazy stuff I am here remember that you too have the capacity to do the same thing if the situation is right.

I'm not saying to kill all the Inhumans and not even Emma should think that way but the royal family is another story. They are the great manipulators and responsible for everything that is happening.

If BB had not detonated the bomb none of this would have happened, they omitted that the mist can kill humans who fail in the transformation, deceived UN members and everything for them to have more inhuman and because of a prophecy so sorry but yes they have much Blood in your hands.

Revenge is also a kind of justice but sometimes it takes people to dark places and not for a minute think that if the situation were otherwise the Inhumans would not do the same since Emma proved that the Inhumans would do anything to protect the mist wen they attacked Scott's illusion of destroying one of the clouds.

I'm sorry for your friends but if you had the opportunity to avenge them against the people who are responsible for it or take them to justice you would not do it? I am not talking about killing innocent Muslims but rather those responsible for the attacks and if I remember correctly the US killed Osama Bin Laden and attacked Iraq with a charge that the country had weapons of mass destruction that were not true.So believe in revenge, fear, hatred, justice, freedom, values all this gets mixed sometimes and the line gets very difficult to trace.

You can condemn Emma morally for wanting revenge but no one can blame her for feeling that way since that a human feeling and anyone who ever really loved could be put in her place.

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