How much Pre-COIE canon should be reinstated into the REBIRTH DCU?

[Buried Alien]

Much discussion is going on about the REBIRTH DCU reinstating vast portions of Pre-FLASHPOINT DC lore that was deleted during the New 52, but how much Pre-COIE material do you think can/will also be reinstated?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

A lot of Pre-COIE canon was already reinstated in the DCU after Infinite Crisis, like Wonder Woman being remade a founding member of the JLA and a lot of those Silver and Bronze Age stories being referenced. So, if they bring back what was canon Pre-Flashpoint, a lot of it will be bringing back Pre-Crisis canon as well. Should they bring in more? Absolutely

[Maxi]

How much I think should be reinstated: Everything.

How much I think THEY WILL reinstate: Everything that doesn't contradict current canon. Characters that were introduced again for the first time during The New 52 and Rebirth (Cassandra, Steph, etc.) won't have their previous histories back.

[phantom1592]

What do we consider Pre-COIE history anymore? It’s weird because so much of post-crisis is really rewritten Pre-crisis. We lost all of Dick Grayson as Robin… We lost all of Barry Allen as Flash… but those stories and histories have post-crisis/Pre-flashpoint equivalents… so if we see Dick as Robin which continuity is it really?

The only things I can really think of were the TRULY outrageous stuff that would contradict the current canon to the point that they probably won’t include it anyway.

What I would like to see return… and may actually have a chance.

Clark Kent = Superboy. We have a current superboy showing a pre-teen kryptonian with powers on earth before he hit 18… I would love to bring back the original Superboy concept even if many of his stories were too far fetched or cheesy. Toss in the connection to Legion of Superheroes for extra points.

Earth 1/Earth 2 Justice Society. I was glad that JSA didn’t get completely ditched when the earths merged… but I was never a huge fan of them being the ‘old guys’ and the inspirations for the current heroes. I much prefer Flash, Green Lantern and Superman having become their own heroes and the JSA just being another worlds’ counterparts for wacky team ups. This may happen as they’re already used to the idea of E2 being it’s own comic not connected with the E1’s WW2.

With that, I’d love for E2 Hawkman to be the archeologist/Egyptian prince and E1 to be a Thangarian space cop.

I’d love a complete reinstatement of Green Lantern’s history as opposed to the cut and paste that happened post Rebirth… but I don’t see that happening.

Barry was faster than light originally, and blew the speed force away, but I don’t think they’ll bring that back…

I want the original Robin to have worn that original Robin Costume and Batman to have had his Yellow Oval/Blue and Grey years. Even if it’s in the past and they’ve upgraded since then… I HATE seeing the past just erased because it’s not popular today. Classic Batman and Robin are Classic.

Actually that goes for all the costumes. Superman and Batman wore the trunks, Green Arrow had the Errol Flynn beard, they may not wear them NOW… (mores the pity,) but it’s still part of their history.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

Just keep Superman as the first public hero. The JSA can have their own Earth (or operate in secret, the way Rebirth #1 seemed to be setting it up).

[phantom1592]

Just keep Superman as the first public hero. The JSA can have their own Earth (or operate in secret, the way Rebirth #1 seemed to be setting it up).

First public hero never meant anything to me honestly. I always feel that limits creativity if you can't write anyone being around longer than superman. Now Superman should be the gold standard for the DC hero. Arguably the best, strongest, fastest most trustworthy to citizens of the Earth.... but if they want to have Batman around earlier or write in a Guardian that operated a dozen years ago or something, I certainly don't take offense at Superman not being the first out of the gate.

[RedWhiteAndBlueSupes]

A lot of Pre-COIE canon was already reinstated in the DCU after Infinite Crisis, like Wonder Woman being remade a founding member of the JLA and a lot of those Silver and Bronze Age stories being referenced. So, if they bring back what was canon Pre-Flashpoint, a lot of it will be bringing back Pre-Crisis canon as well. Should they bring in more? Absolutely

Well we know they will end up bringing back the pre-flashpoint verse to the forefront, so at the very minimum it will be Post-Infinite Crisis levels of restoration, which frankly satisfied me. But Johns has said that (regarding rebirth) that there "has to be this ambilical cord going back to Action Comics #1". I would not be surprised at all if Johns took this opportunity to reinstate a lot of stuff.

How much I think should be reinstated: Everything.

How much I think THEY WILL reinstate: Everything that doesn't contradict current canon. Characters that were introduced again for the first time during The New 52 and Rebirth (Cassandra, Steph, etc.) won't have their previous histories back.

I think it will be everything that doesn't contradict Pre-Flashpoint canon. Jim Lee has said Johns story "takes the New 52 and seats it in the continuity that preceded it". Characters like Duke Thomas, or Nuwally, anybody introduced during the New 52 will be unchanged, Bar-Torr may return to menace the Flash family but it will be a completely separate character rather than some version of Bart Allen. From an editorial perspective I would be surprised in they didn't restore Cassandra and Stephanie and Barbara. Usually when the big 2 open up the Pandora's Box of continuity it usually applies line wide. You can't fully restore Batman and Nightwing if you don't fully restore Barbara and Stephanie etc. And Babs/Steph can still carry on from they're direction from New 52/Rebirth, they're retroactively restored continuity wouldn't be a deterrant to keeping Barbara as Batgirl or whatever they decide to do.

[RedWhiteAndBlueSupes]

Much discussion is going on about the REBIRTH DCU reinstating vast portions of Pre-FLASHPOINT DC lore that was deleted during the New 52, but how much Pre-COIE material do you think can/will also be reinstated?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

oh and BTW Barry Allen is my favorite Dc character and if anything the Flash family should be 100% restored, the 1956-1986 Silver/Bronze age Barry Allen is the gold standard for me, and Barry just doesn't appeal if he doesn't have the Flash family behind him. I was stoked when he reappeared in Final Crisis. And Everything From Final Crisis to Flashpoint was awesome, but the New 52 pretty much ruined Barry Allen for me. Give me my Barry Allen back DC!

I want the original Robin to have worn that original Robin Costume and Batman to have had his Yellow Oval/Blue and Grey years. Even if it’s in the past and they’ve upgraded since then… I HATE seeing the past just erased because it’s not popular today. Classic Batman and Robin are Classic.

Oh yeah that is a huge deal for me, it's totally impossible to restore previous canon and use stupid revisionist costumes. But never fear Dc seems to get that, at least Johns does. Actually I'm pretty sure the yellow oval "New Look" costume was shown in the Batman title Recently, although what issue exactly alludes me. (Of course it was cleverly shown from the waist up

Actually that goes for all the costumes. Superman and Batman wore the trunks, Green Arrow had the Errol Flynn beard, they may not wear them NOW… (mores the pity,) but it’s still part of their history.

Dc needs to get over they're weird trunks phobia, they've clearly lost the war anyway at this point, enough is enough. I could understand if Batman originally wore a long overcoat and fedora with white wingtips why they might want to update it, but c'mon, the trunks are fine. I get why Dc doesn't want to use the Elf costume on Damian(doesn't fit his character, it's kind of exclusive to Dick, lot's of reasons. all fine and good.) But I agree with Atomic Man that DC editorial definitely seems to have a "don't use classic costumes until "X" date or until "X" event happens kind of mandate in place.

[Dr. Poison]

My hopes are that the original Earth 2 is back so that the JSA can keep their Trinity, Robin, Huntress, and Power Girl along with their World War II history.

[krazijoe]

I wonder if the heroes will be injected with all the memories from their pre whatever history...

[Calvinr]

As much as they can, aslong as it makes sense with what's happening currently, I see no problem bringing back as much of pre-crisis as applicable, e.g. Supergirl death in Coie will most likely be left in the archives as it would just make her current situation all the more confusing lol

[bat39]

Where it can fit into existing continuity with minimal retcons - sure, why not.

This was a discussion we were having over on the Superman board actually. What criteria really need to be met for a story to 'count' in current continuity? According to me, if you can show a flashback depicting a scene from, say, Detective Comics # 27 in a modern comic, and thus have the story 'count' as part of current canon, without every single minute detail of the story having to match up 100% with current continuity.

With Superman, I think a lot of Silver Age/Bronze Age stuff can easily fit into current continuity (post-Reborn) into the 'pre-marriage' era. Now obviously, some stuff can't fit. For instance, stories which feature Lex Luthor as a super-villain and publicly known criminal (unless there's some retcon which can justify it). Or stories featuring Supergirl. But something like the Sand-Superman Saga for instance MIGHT be able to fit in (if you allow for the idea that Clark spent some time as a WGBS news anchor and Kryptonite was briefly eradicated from earth).

To an extent, this is already the norm. Post-COIE, a good 75% or so of Pre-COIE material was still in canon. This number increased after Infinite Crisis. Hell, even in the New 52, it was kinda implied that some of the Silver Age JLA stories happened in the last five years (with Cyborg instead of Martian Manhunter).

[KoriandrJean]

... (snip) ...Actually I'm pretty sure the yellow oval "New Look" costume was shown in the Batman title Recently, although what issue exactly alludes me. (Of course it was cleverly shown from the waist up

Dc needs to get over they're weird trunks phobia, they've clearly lost the war anyway at this point, enough is enough. I could understand if Batman originally wore a long overcoat and fedora with white wingtips why they might want to update it, but c'mon, the trunks are fine. ... (snip) ...

No, they are not. They're gone and they're not coming back.

[Zainu]

Everything. Just--everything.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

No, they are not. They're gone and they're not coming back.

Actually, they did come back: Batman Annual #1

Deathstroke also came back wearing his trunks on the outside in the most recent issue of Deathstroke.