Is DC still treating Wally West badly?

[Buried Alien]

I am all for that!

BohemiaDrinker expressed reservations about the Speed Force being a "place," but it wouldn't be so much a place as a state of being, with actual physical location being irrelevant. For the purposes of our perceptions from images on a printed page, though, it would appear to us (as readers) as a "place," even though it would not actually be a physical location. The laws of physics and time-space wouldn't necessarily apply in there.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Atlanta96]

Nu Wally isn't popular so they can't promote white version without completely overshadowing other. If he never existed Barry and Wally still could have found a balance.

I doubt that, let's not forget that DC really doesn't want Wally overshadowing Barry either. I don't think they'd want Ginger Wally to be popular or important under any circumstances as long as Barry is around. Because let's face it, they're putting a LOT of effort into making Barry a big deal. Cant have his former sidekick making him look inferior or replaceable, can we?

[skyvolt2000]

I don't think it's Barry problem, not anymore. It's new52 Wally being a very poor replacement problem. He's not popular within TV show fandom, he's not popular in comics so they can't swallow back what they spit and just let the character's mainstream appeal rot.

This is not a Barry issue.

This falls on DC management and fans. For YEARS Dc (and Marvel) has been able to toss out crap and fans ate it up no matter what. Even if they whined and complained. Be it events or the death march that the Tim Drake era has dealt with.

So they thought they could get rid of Wally and toss out a racist stereotype and get away with it. They found out wrong.

They thought they could do as little with him and get away with it. They found out wrong.

This company does not care about main steam appeal.

See Static.
See John Stewart.
See Young Justice.
See Vixen.
See Tim Drake.
See Blue Beetle.
See 90% of the guys who appeared in cartoons and tv shows who are MIA in comics.

So why should fake Wally get a pass? Because to some he's diversity done right? While Static isn't?

He is not popular with fandom because he's another black kid that needs a white savior to save him and deadbeat dad trope. Something everyone is tired of.

And you see who they are dumping him on now don't you-Deathstroke home to Mr Priest. That is NOT by accident. You saw what he did for Steel, Black Panther & Stroke.

[Stanlos]

Ok, we were all excited when Wally West returned last May, especially since he was the star of the hugely important Rebirth Special and got to reunite with the original Titans. But it's almost 9 months later, and now that the hype has died down let's look at how he's actually being used.

His only recurring role is in Titans, where he is now a supporting character and no longer the main focus. I think it's a pretty damn good book but it's been rightfully criticized for pacing issues, characterization issues, and artistic failings. Many readers understandably dislike it, so for many Wally fans there isn't a single good book featuring the character at the moment.

For some reason Wally is relegated to a single monthly book while Barry is in 2 bimonthly books, and even the less popular Nu Wally West gets to appear in 3 issues a month on average. Ginger Wally has only been in 2 issues of the main Flash so far despite his name actually being the Flash, and a very big deal being made of his return and reunion with Barry. If he's supposed to have an expanded role in the DCU they're not doing a very good job setting it up, he's gotten very little development since his return.

In outside media, the only notable adaptation of the character is on the Flash TV show which, in my opinion, fails to live up to the greatness of the character and is arguably more of a Nu Wally adaptation anyway. Ginger Wally has little to no presence in cartoons, videogames, live action films, and animated films. Yes Young Justice season 3 is coming up but it's a long ways off and who knows how he'll actually be treated this time? The DCEU Barry Allen, based on the ComicCon footage, seems to be at least partially inspired by Wally's personality, making me fear he won't appear in the DCEU either unless it's another radically different adaptation.

It's nice that the character is back at all, but looking at how he's being treated he still doesn't seem to be valued at DC the way Barry and Nu Wally are. He still seems like an afterthought only around to appease longtime readers while they don't actually do anything with him. Is anyone really satisfied with Wally West at the moment?

I have felt that all DC did was pull a NetherRealm/MortalKombat on Wally, i.e., they merely changed his name to Barry and put a buzz cut on. It was kind of weird with both Barry and Hal in that they were "brought back" only to be interpreted nearly exactly the same as Wally and Kyle. It was kinda bizarre.

[Buried Alien]

I have felt that all DC did was pull a NetherRealm/MortalKombat on Wally, i.e., they merely changed his name to Barry and put a buzz cut on. It was kind of weird with both Barry and Hal in that they were "brought back" only to be interpreted nearly exactly the same as Wally and Kyle. It was kinda bizarre.

Do you mean in the comics or in other media? I haven't seen all the DC animated movies yet, but in the comics, Barry and Hal have not been characterized as anything similar to 90s Wally and Kyle.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Waterfall]

Barry was very similar to Wally during Origins and I would argue he's still written very similar to Wally outside of his own book.

[Buried Alien]

Barry was very similar to Wally during Origins and I would argue he's still written very similar to Wally outside of his own book.

The only time I sense this is when Barry interacts with Vic (Cyborg), and I've always chalked that up to Vic sort of being forced into the Justice League when he was, for most of his existence, a Titan, and interacted with Wally. I think the writers were trying to re-create that Wally/Vic dynamic, but forgot that Barry isn't Wally and didn't have the same relationship with Vic.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[FlashEarthOne]

Do you mean in the comics or in other media? I haven't seen all the DC animated movies yet, but in the comics, Barry and Hal have not been characterized as anything similar to 90s Wally and Kyle.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

They haven't in the animated movies or comics. In costume there isn't that much difference between Barry and Wally. Barry in Flashpoint Paradox, JL: Doom, JL: War and the other movies is written with a focus on Barry being Barry. People will always see what they want to see expecially if it makes their favorite seem more important.

[FlashEarthOne]

The only time I sense this is when Barry interacts with Vic (Cyborg), and I've always chalked that up to Vic sort of being forced into the Justice League when he was, for most of his existence, a Titan, and interacted with Wally. I think the writers were trying to re-create that Wally/Vic dynamic, but forgot that Barry isn't Wally and didn't have the same relationship with Vic.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I agree completely. Barry having a sense of humor doesn't mean he is being written like Wally. When in costume Barry and Wally have more similarities than differences... Barry's sense of humor shows up more when he is in costume. People don't seem to get that. That is probably why some people thought that YJ Barry was being written like Wally. Their differences show up more when out of costume and you aren't going to see that as much in other books such as Justice League. Plus... in Williamson we may finally have the writer who can give Barry his modern incarnation that he never had in the Silver/Bronze age. So you should expect some change... just as Wally had many different personalities under his different writers.

[Atlanta96]

Serious question, why do so many Wally West fans tolerate his terrible treatment? I have no idea how anyone can be happy with his current position, or how any criticism of how he's being handled is written off or ignored by people who supposedly like him. If you're a fan of this character, why wouldn't you want these issues to be addressed?

[skyvolt2000]

Serious question, why do so many Wally West fans tolerate his terrible treatment? I have no idea how anyone can be happy with his current position, or how any criticism of how he's being handled is written off or ignored by people who supposedly like him. If you're a fan of this character, why wouldn't you want these issues to be addressed?

For years and I do mean YEARS what have we heard? If you don't buy it, you send the message that NO ONE wants it. Or if you are a REAL fan you support CRAP no matter what.

And it's mainly lead by certain sets of folks-(mind you this does not apply to all)

The folks who HATE the character in question-a trait mainly seen with minority characters. Take New 52 Static Shock-the WORST and POSTER CHILD of how bad New 52 was. Never mind the drama caused by Harvey Richards & McDaniel-if you were a Milestone fan, Static fan or BLACK it was you job to support it-quality be DAMN.

The folks who look at sales and try to QUESTION your fan card-see Green Lantern. Hal fans tried to bully John fans to support that book and said John fans were not real fans for not supporting the franchise no matter what. Yet many of those Hal fans lead the charge in pure hatred towards Kyle & John. Much like the mistreatment of Wally-John fans took a stand and left. Thus the less than stellar sells.

The folks who FEAR the fate of their favorite if they don't support the book. See X-Men. As bad as X-Men vs Inhumans was-it still SOLD. If X-Men fans were really serious they would leave the Inhuman fans alone and stop buying the books.
Or they fear a Duke Thomas will take Tim's place.

The folks who are taking a wait and see attitude of lets see how this ends before I go off badly. This tends to the majority of folks. If after a year nothing changes than it's time to leave or act like Stephanie Brown fans towards Dan.

However the REALITY of it is it does not matter with this company. It gets to a point of when you are more than willing to RUIN or get rid of popular characters for pets (no I am not talking Duke-because Tim will be back)-why even bother complaining.

It's easier to take your money else where.

Be like John Stewart fans-take our money and go. If more folks did that than attack other fanbases-Dc might get the HINT.

[Atlanta96]

For years and I do mean YEARS what have we heard? If you don't buy it, you send the message that NO ONE wants it. Or if you are a REAL fan you support CRAP no matter what.

And it's mainly lead by certain sets of folks-(mind you this does not apply to all)

The folks who HATE the character in question-a trait mainly seen with minority characters. Take New 52 Static Shock-the WORST and POSTER CHILD of how bad New 52 was. Never mind the drama caused by Harvey Richards & McDaniel-if you were a Milestone fan, Static fan or BLACK it was you job to support it-quality be DAMN.

The folks who look at sales and try to QUESTION your fan card-see Green Lantern. Hal fans tried to bully John fans to support that book and said John fans were not real fans for not supporting the franchise no matter what. Yet many of those Hal fans lead the charge in pure hatred towards Kyle & John. Much like the mistreatment of Wally-John fans took a stand and left. Thus the less than stellar sells.

The folks who FEAR the fate of their favorite if they don't support the book. See X-Men. As bad as X-Men vs Inhumans was-it still SOLD. If X-Men fans were really serious they would leave the Inhuman fans alone and stop buying the books.
Or they fear a Duke Thomas will take Tim's place.

The folks who are taking a wait and see attitude of lets see how this ends before I go off badly. This tends to the majority of folks. If after a year nothing changes than it's time to leave or act like Stephanie Brown fans towards Dan.

However the REALITY of it is it does not matter with this company. It gets to a point of when you are more than willing to RUIN or get rid of popular characters for pets (no I am not talking Duke-because Tim will be back)-why even bother complaining.

It's easier to take your money else where.

Be like John Stewart fans-take our money and go. If more folks did that than attack other fanbases-Dc might get the HINT.

Could you condense the message of this post into a single paragraph for easy reading, please?

[Assam]

Serious question, why do so many Wally West fans tolerate his terrible treatment? I have no idea how anyone can be happy with his current position, or how any criticism of how he's being handled is written off or ignored by people who supposedly like him. If you're a fan of this character, why wouldn't you want these issues to be addressed?

I mean, I'm not happy about it. In my mind, Wally never should have lost his position as the lead of the main Flash book unless he retired and handed the mantle to Bart. Regarding skyvolt's post, I DO normally boycott books which I feel are treating characters I care about badly, to show in a small way that that's not what I as a consumer would like to read.

Trouble is, it's the company that's treating Wally bad, not "Titans." While I will forever be frustrated that Wally hasn't brought up his kids once, Abnett has been doing fine with Wally characterization wise, he got to be the star of the first arc, plus the Superman issue, and overall the book itself has been perfectly serviceable. And honestly, even IF Wally wasn't acting like himself, I'd still probably read Titans because not only would their still be several characters being well written who I'm a fan of (Garth, Donna, and Lilith), but there'd also be a character being well written who I like far MORE than Wally (Roy).

Which brings me to my final point. Yes, I'm upset with how Wally is being treated. But the reason I'm not as vocally outraged about it as you is that while I love Wally, he's only my 29th favorite DC hero, and my 5th favorite speedster.

Most of those 28 characters I like more have it worse than Wally right now, and ALL 4 speedsters I like more than Wally have it worse off than him right now.

If I unleashed my full fury about every character I care about who's mistreated, I'd tire myself to death. TIs the fate of someone who, for the most part, doesn't really care about DC's A-listers.

[Atlanta96]

Well I'm talking about people who would put Wally in their top 10 or 20 favorite characters. I feel like there should be a lot more discontent from people who really care about the guy, theres a lot of unwillingness to accept what is being done to him.

I mean, is he really being written that well in Titans? He's not bad but he's kind of generic compared to other versions, he doesn't have much going for him aside from nice guy hero. The more I think about Titans the less satisfying it is.

And with the long list of other problems the character faces, I still don't understand how any Wally fan can be satisfied at the moment.

[sakuyamons]

If I unleashed my full fury about every character I care about who's mistreated, I'd tire myself to death. TIs the fate of someone who, for the most part, doesn't really care about DC's A-listers.

Imagine my life, I'm a Donna Troy fan