Is DC still treating Wally West badly?

[JackDaw]

I'm pretty sure he preferred Barry the whole time.

Did he? Brave man soldiering on all those years. My respect for Geoff grows.

What was his preference based on?

He must know both characters very well, so it's interesting that he prefers Barry.

[skyvolt2000]

No one? It must have been torture for poor old Geoff Johns writing all those stories.

He was probably writing them under the guise of Barry not coming back anytime soon. SO I f I have no idea Barry was coming back-you wold put your energy into Wally.

Someone had to greenlight Barry's return probably after the success of Hal's return.

THe downside was those returns screwed over the guys already there.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

You guys know that Johns is capable of liking both Barry and Wally, right? There is no either/or here. People don't have to choose between the two Flashes.

[godisawesome]

I don't think Johns preferred Barry over Wally, at least not o the clear extent that he preferred Hal over Kyle and other Green Lanterns. If anything, I think he has a clear man-crush on Flash villains and a desire to modify both Flashes; his runs on both characters tended to focus heavily on the villains first and foremost, and he had Barry's mom killed and had Wally go through a whole miscarriag-Identity erased-kids returned thing. When I observe the changes he enacted on both characters, it feels like he saw more "problems" with Barry at the conceptual phase (thus making his mother's death a key origin element), while he either felt that Wally needed a new status quo, or, considering how temporary the changes were, simply thought he could tell an unconventional but epic story.

The sheer repetitive and derivative nature of the Flash Rebirth also kind of paints Johns interest in Barry as being more academic than personal. And I think it was supposed to be EVS who was championing a returned Barry, and I still think the final impetus for Barry's return was probably a belief that Barry's earlier and less involved origin made him "sexier" for marketing to mainstream audiences, and a feeling that Wally wasn't getting the love management expected from the IP. Of course, that might be because they screwed the pooch by trying to make Bart Flash without much cause.

[Atlanta96]

You guys know that Johns is capable of liking both Barry and Wally, right? There is no either/or here. People don't have to choose between the two Flashes.

They can only choose 1 to succeed. We're not going to see Wally find any success while Barry is around anytime soon.

[The Darknight Detective]

You guys know that Johns is capable of liking both Barry and Wally, right? There is no either/or here. People don't have to choose between the two Flashes.

Of course, Zee, and I believe that's the majority opinion. If that hadn't happened at the time of COIE, Wally's chance as Flash would have died a miserable death.

[Atlanta96]

Of course, Zee, and I believe that's the majority opinion. If that hadn't happened at the time of COIE, Wally's chance as Flash would have died a miserable death.

Wally only succeeded as the Flash because Barry died a miserable death, Barry's return only succeeded because the quality of Wally's book died a miserable death.

[The Darknight Detective]

Wally only succeeded as the Flash because Barry died a miserable death, Barry's return only succeeded because the quality of Wally's book died a miserable death.

I wasn't talking about that, Atlanta. I was talking about Barry fans not giving Wally a chance at all at the start of the DCU (and before you mention personalities, most fans would have said Wally's, while comparable, was a tad more unlikable than Barry's due to his characterization in NTT). Yet my genartion did give him a chance and he succeeded.

As for Barry and Wally today, I don't know what to tell you. Based on the success of the show and the upcoming film, Barry Allen will be the dominant speedster for at least the next 20 years. Now you can be unhappy about that for all that time or decide to accept it. The latter sounds like the preferable thing to do for your mental health, but if you enjoy fighting windmills...

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

They can only choose 1 to succeed. We're not going to see Wally find any success while Barry is around anytime soon.

Again, that's just utterly wrong. Wally and Barry can both be successful. After all, there was a period of about 30 years where they co-existed basically without any sort of conflict. In fact, Wally wouldn't even exist without Barry. Barry is the Flash, but Wally is also a Flash. So, Barry can have the main book and Wally can have a leading role in the Titans, which is actually how it was for a looooong time before COIE. If DC has plans to also give Wally a solo title, that would be great, but again a leading role in the Titans, one of DC's premier superhero teams, is nothing to sneeze at either. If you think the book is mediocre, that's an entirely separate issue.

The only way it would be necessary to choose between Wally and Barry is if you come into it with the notion that there can only be one Flash, which hasn't been the case in the DCU since about 1956, what with both Barry and Jay running around at the same time.

[Atlanta96]

Again, that's just utterly wrong. Wally and Barry can both be successful. After all, there was a period of about 30 years where they co-existed basically without any sort of conflict. In fact, Wally wouldn't even exist without Barry. Barry is the Flash, but Wally is also a Flash. So, Barry can have the main book and Wally can have a leading role in the Titans, which is actually how it was for a looooong time before COIE. If DC has plans to also give Wally a solo title, that would be great, but again a leading role in the Titans, one of DC's premier superhero teams, is nothing to sneeze at either. If you think the book is mediocre, that's an entirely separate issue.

The only way it would be necessary to choose between Wally and Barry is if you come into it with the notion that there can only be one Flash, which hasn't been the case in the DCU since about 1956, what with both Barry and Jay running around at the same time.

Barry was the dominant Flash for that entire 30 year period and Wally was a B-list sidekick/team book character. Like he is now. You have not debunked my point.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Barry was the dominant Flash for that entire 30 year period and Wally was a B-list sidekick/team book character. Like he is now. You have not debunked my point.

1) Wally is not a sidekick. He's outgrown that role. Even the messed up state of the DCU acknowledges that.

2) Wally's time as Flash has been acknowledged by several characters.

3) Several characters that are "team book characters" can all still be pretty damn important. Beast, Cyclops, Storm, Jean Grey, Iceman, etc. are all at their heart "team book characters" and their forays into having solo titles have been less than successful. However, nobody would say that they were unimportant characters. In fact, for decades now, they've been pretty much some of the most recognizable characters of the Marvel Universe. Reed Richards, Ben Grimm, and Sue and Johnny Storm are all team book characters and together they make up the team that is literally called Marvel's "First Family." For several decades, Martian Manhunter did not have a solo and has rarely had a solo in the modern age of comics. But again, even during the N52, nobody could really say he was unimportant to the DCU.

So, if you're argument is that Wally can't be successful as a "team book character," then I'm sorry but that argument is wrong and has actually even been proven wrong in the past. Before and after COIE, the Titans were essentially DC's X-Men, not just in terms of an analogous role, but in terms of their popularity and sales. So, being a core part of that team was...a big deal. Wally was a core part of that team and is a big part of their history.

Now, has the popularity of the Titans diminished? Yes. But in terms of the general hierarchy of the DC Universe and the role that team plays, the Titans are still pretty damn important and have been a staple of DC's publishing for, well, decades. In-universe, they're probably second only to the JLA in their relative importance. DC's f-ed up with them plenty (and is still f-ing up IMO), but again, they are a core and essential part of the DCU. So, being one of the leading members of the Titans franchise is not a "demotion" by any means. Will Wally branch out and get a solo alongside a starring role in Titans like Dick has? Hopefully. But that can only come once Rebirth concludes. Right now, Wally is at the center of the mystery of who's messing with the timeline. People don't have full recollection of him yet, including Iris. So, those things need to be put back into place before DC can move forward with a Wally solo.

4) You can take solace in the fact that it didn't take 25 years to get Wally back the same way it took almost a quarter century to bring back Barry Allen. Believe it or not, there were (and are) comic book fans who actually loved Barry and were upset to see him dead for that long a time.

[skyvolt2000]

You guys know that Johns is capable of liking both Barry and Wally, right? There is no either/or here. People don't have to choose between the two Flashes.

True but this is DC we are talking about who seem to be more concern with WHO is the face and bringing in the money versus settling for a compromise.

They took out 2 Batgirls for Babs-when neither of those two needed to be Batgirl in the first place as they had previous ids.

Do we even need to discuss Green Lantern? A franchise built for many to be the face not just one or one with John's 2 pets. While one who got popular via a cartoon had his fanbase chased out of DC and in some case out of comics.

All the other black heroes are afterthought and now we have Cyborg, NuWally & Duke?


DC is not going to allow free competition where you are given a choice-they took the competition away.

Unlike Marvel who has no issue with Peter Parker and little brother Miles nor his sisters-Spider Gwen, Jessica Drew, Silkk or his daughter and wife.

Peter will always be NUMBER ONE but at the end of the day-his family and siblings bring in money that he might not bring in. Excluding Miles & Gwen-the last Spider-Man proper book I bought a new tv show was getting ready to air called Darkwing Duck.


Yes we accepted Wally as Flash after Barry died an HONORABLE death. He wasn't treated like Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown, Wally, John Stewart, Kyle, Jason Rusch and so many others.

Dc's issue is fanboy and love of silver age controls everything and while many are happy about that-others are not. And sooner than later they will follow John Stewart fans and walk away from DC.

[Waterfall]

Wally has his own solo life beyond Titans. He was at his best when he moved on from their team. Every Wally fan wants to see Wally back in Keystone, with his familiar sidecast, not as stuck in Titans Tower.

[Atlanta96]

1) Wally is not a sidekick. He's outgrown that role. Even the messed up state of the DCU acknowledges that.

2) Wally's time as Flash has been acknowledged by several characters.

3) Several characters that are "team book characters" can all still be pretty damn important. Beast, Cyclops, Storm, Jean Grey, Iceman, etc. are all at their heart "team book characters" and their forays into having solo titles have been less than successful. However, nobody would say that they were unimportant characters. In fact, for decades now, they've been pretty much some of the most recognizable characters of the Marvel Universe. Reed Richards, Ben Grimm, and Sue and Johnny Storm are all team book characters and together they make up the team that is literally called Marvel's "First Family." For several decades, Martian Manhunter did not have a solo and has rarely had a solo in the modern age of comics. But again, even during the N52, nobody could really say he was unimportant to the DCU.

So, if you're argument is that Wally can't be successful as a "team book character," then I'm sorry but that argument is wrong and has actually even been proven wrong in the past. Before and after COIE, the Titans were essentially DC's X-Men, not just in terms of an analogous role, but in terms of their popularity and sales. So, being a core part of that team was...a big deal. Wally was a core part of that team and is a big part of their history.

Now, has the popularity of the Titans diminished? Yes. But in terms of the general hierarchy of the DC Universe and the role that team plays, the Titans are still pretty damn important and have been a staple of DC's publishing for, well, decades. In-universe, they're probably second only to the JLA in their relative importance. DC's f-ed up with them plenty (and is still f-ing up IMO), but again, they are a core and essential part of the DCU. So, being one of the leading members of the Titans franchise is not a "demotion" by any means. Will Wally branch out and get a solo alongside a starring role in Titans like Dick has? Hopefully. But that can only come once Rebirth concludes. Right now, Wally is at the center of the mystery of who's messing with the timeline. People don't have full recollection of him yet, including Iris. So, those things need to be put back into place before DC can move forward with a Wally solo.

4) You can take solace in the fact that it didn't take 25 years to get Wally back the same way it took almost a quarter century to bring back Barry Allen. Believe it or not, there were (and are) comic book fans who actually loved Barry and were upset to see him dead for that long a time.

Anyone who's actually read NTT knows what an unimportant member of the team Wally was. Wolfman didn't even like writing Wally and turned him into an unlikable wet blanket and made him quit the team because of it. NTT didn't do anything good for the character.

And neither does Titans, which is by no means one of the most popular comics right now. It's not as popular as the Justice League, which Barry is part of, it's not even as popular as the main Flash book.

Other than that your post is more "could be worse". You seem desperate to defend every bad thing that's been done to Wally, you don't sound like a big fan of this character.

[MajorHoy]

I wasn't talking about that, Atlanta. I was talking about Barry fans not giving Wally a chance at all at the start of the DCU (and before you mention personalities, most fans would have said Wally's, while comparable, was a tad more unlikable than Barry's due to his characterization in NTT). Yet my genartion did give him a chance and he succeeded.

That's partly because back then we didn't have the internet so we could bitch, complain, and whine continuously.