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  1. #421
    All-New Member Xi'an Chi Xan's Avatar
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    I'd like to thank Marvel for helping me break my 30+ years addiction to X-Men comics. I survived Chuck Austen and Bendis, but I can't take it any more. My God, "The Draco" was Shakespeare compared to this absolute crapfest. At least I still have Thor, i guess, and that's teetering on the edge.
    Last edited by Xi'an Chi Xan; 03-09-2017 at 11:13 PM.

  2. #422
    Amazing Member Leon2703's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auch View Post
    You're saying this like there is absolutely no interesting angle for this. Here's something I came up with in like 5 minutes:

    IvX is exactly the same up until the NuHumans give Medua the button except Emma is on the ship too with Colossus and Magik let's say, ready to confront Medusa once and for all. The NuHumans explain what's going on, Emma slips out of her diamond form, and Medusa stands there, waiting, not doing anything as the cloud gets closer and closer. Then there are two close-ups of Emma's face: first shocked, then angry and starting to turn diamond. The NuHumans look confused until finally one of them presses the button, destroying the cloud. The X-Men are relieved as Medusa half-heartedly says she was going to press the button to the uneasy NuHumans. The BOOM! Emma sucker punches her before being held back by Colossus as Magik attempts to calm her down. "Liar!" she yells. "She's lying! I heard her thoughts! She was going to let us die! She was going to kill us all just like she killed Cyclops and let all those other mutants die!" Then it pans back to Medusa looking ashamed and embarrassed as the NuHumans look even more shocked and upset.

    Then a few pages of wrap-up saying whatever but Medusa doesn't abdicate in order to lead the Inhumans through this trying world with no Terrigen.

    Emma gets brought into the fold as a senior instructor at the recreated Xavier/Jean Grey Institute and starts trying to help it grow again but something isn't right. Maybe give her an issue or two describing how Scott's death and the Royal Family's inaction regarding M-Pox were the final straws of a life spent watching mutants be treated like second-class citizens to the point that no one cared about or treated Genosha and M-Day as seriously as they should have. Give her a brief storyline where the other X-Men (especially teen Cyclops and Jeen) are bothered by her projection of Cyclops in DoX but eventually they resolve it. She tries to grow and get past everything but she can't. Keep her as a more minor character for a while and then have Storm and OML (as the new mutant school/sanctuary's resident tough guy) call her aside and say they've noticed her restlessness and frustration that she can't do more to help mutantkind. So she's asked to resurrect X-Force to help cut off existential threats to mutantkind as the population tries to recover from the M-Pox and near extinction (again). She accepts and you run those stories for a while before revealing that Emma is hatching a plan to get revenge on JUST Medusa (and Black Bolt) for their callous disregard for mutants' lives.

    Meanwhile, Medusa now has to handle the rumblings of revolution as the NuHumans begin to lose trust in the Royal Family and cannot look at them the same after realizing Emma wasn't lying and Medusa was willing to let all of the mutants die to save the Terrigen. Eventually, Inhuman society splinters. Meanwhile, Medusa is also trying to deal with the immense guilt she has over her hesitation because she had hoped she was better than that. And then eventually, there's her confrontation with Emma.

    There you go--Emma is not the villain but also is not wholely painted as an angel while (IMO) still following a logical progression with a twist that builds off of who she is as a character that has changed and developed. This also helps make Medusa a more complex character versus a queen that just does whatever she wants because there are seemingly no consequences at all to her actions as well as finally addressing the completely unbelievable fact that all of these NuHumans seem to have no problem buying into the established Inhuman society despite its clear issues and the fact that they all grew up in different cultures, many of which are diametrically opposed to the Inhumans' value structures.
    Bravo! You even made the Inhumans interesting...

    It is beyond me how those writers couldn't think of anything better than what was delivered.

  3. #423
    Amazing Member Leon2703's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    So basically you want Emma to be the hero of the story, what consequences does she suffer as a result of your proposed ending? Essentially you've thrown Medusa under the bus to prop up Emma. Then you still want her to go after the Royals, because you want to build a big emotional arc for Emma but where does that leave everyone else? Would the xmen just be pawns in Emma's revenge quest, would the inhumans be the victims. And how would all this end? Emma triumphant, Medusa and Blackbolt broken. Would Emma even suffer any setbacks or consequences for her actions, I suspect not because her fans cant accept that not everything is about Emma, that even she can be humbled and she won't always get her way or win all the time.
    And what did Marvel do huh? They essensialy threw Emma under the bus to prop up Medusa, in a very s***** way. The way Auch wrote it, it actually makes sense because it respects continuity.
    And you talk about consequences as if a ton of mutants haven't died. What are the consequences to the Inhumans? They will have to find the formula of the T-mist, poor them. And waht about Medusa? Not a queen anymore? Yeah, because she doesn't seem super f****** excited about that.

  4. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonmp93 View Post
    Yeah sure; we never saw anything like that, and why would Ahura bring a big group of non-combatants to a fight like this ?, that's so stupid.
    He clearly specifically says she killed my people. He probably didn't think she had programmed a bunch of genocidal sentinels to slaughter Inhumans.

    Not even Magneto would do this. He would have killed Inhumans in battle if he HAD to, but to just go straight up genocidal when he was the victim of the Holocaust? No.

  5. #425
    Astonishing Member Ianbarreilles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    He clearly specifically says she killed my people. He probably didn't think she had programmed a bunch of genocidal sentinels to slaughter Inhumans.

    Not even Magneto would do this. He would have killed Inhumans in battle if he HAD to, but to just go straight up genocidal when he was the victim of the Holocaust? No.
    Yeah this is exactly why I really don't quite understand the Emma was right argument people have coined she basically ordered the mass executions of inhumans right there on the spot as well as Emma forcing forge against his will telepathically to create reprogrammed mutant killing sentinels into being inhuman killing sentinels as well as mind controlling magneto against his will and finally the killing of ahura's people who were completely innocent who were actually trying to help the situation by providing their and ahura's resources to help forge and moon girl rebuild forge's machine.

  6. #426
    Mighty Member Jesse-James's Avatar
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    She went nuts and decided to punish the Inhumans no matter what. She just lost it. Great to have her as a villain. The X-Men needed a great new villain. Now being back Vulcan and great adventures ahead.

  7. #427
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    He clearly specifically says she killed my people. He probably didn't think she had programmed a bunch of genocidal sentinels to slaughter Inhumans.

    Not even Magneto would do this. He would have killed Inhumans in battle if he HAD to, but to just go straight up genocidal when he was the victim of the Holocaust? No.
    That depends on who is writing him - look what Morrison had him do.

  8. #428
    Casual Comics Reader/Fan Londo Bellian's Avatar
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    And threats to the office made them retcon it. Badly. Sometimes I think it is possible for an X-fan to finally take violent measures to keep the concept the way he wants it, not the editors' nor writers'.
    Genkai nante nai (No limits), Zettai nante nai (No absolutes)

    The Current Hill that I Risk Dying On: #KrakoaNEVERMYXMEN
    "I promise, I'll definitely save you. With my tenth and final life, I WILL PROTECT YOU, MUTANDOKA!" ~HoMoira Kinross Akemi

  9. #429
    Astonishing Member TooFlyToFail's Avatar
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    To be fair, Morrison's X-Men run was just pure insanity. Just chock full of shock values, and plot twists, for the sake of it. Can't believe the same person wrote All-Star Superman.

  10. #430
    Casual Comics Reader/Fan Londo Bellian's Avatar
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    If only he was given leave to revive Colossus for his NXM run. Then Emma would've never gotten that broken-as-eff diamond form, stayed a pure psyker.
    Genkai nante nai (No limits), Zettai nante nai (No absolutes)

    The Current Hill that I Risk Dying On: #KrakoaNEVERMYXMEN
    "I promise, I'll definitely save you. With my tenth and final life, I WILL PROTECT YOU, MUTANDOKA!" ~HoMoira Kinross Akemi

  11. #431
    Incredible Member MetalPsyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse-James View Post
    She went nuts and decided to punish the Inhumans no matter what. She just lost it. Great to have her as a villain. The X-Men needed a great new villain. Now being back Vulcan and great adventures ahead.
    I'm actually pretty sad on how they treat Emma throughout DoX and IvX. She basically went nuts in one day following the death of Cyclops by the Inhuman toxic gas. She had many tragedies before and never went full on maniac.
    And the way she want the revenge doesn't feel like Emma at all. She plays the long game, she might even could've tried exposing the hypocricy on the Inhumans Royal about the gas. But went full on maniac trying to kill the Inhumans using robots? It's very OOC for her.

    I actually don't mind Emma back as a villain. But they way they do it here is very disappointing.

    /sigh

  12. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    When Emma was introduced she was going to telepathically destroy Storm's mind. Phoenix stopped her. Emma made the device that helped Mastermind get to Phoenix/Jean. Emma detonated Hellfire Club minions for failing in their job. She was a murderer.

    She also manipulated Firestar and killed her horse, in an attempt to use her as an assassin against Selene.

    Oh I forgot how she got to be the White Queen. The council of the chosen was a bunch of anti mutant billionaires who had companies that were making sentinels. Only they invited in people who were mutants Shaw, Frost, Leland, Tessa, and Lourdes Chantel. They killed the council of the chosen and took their companies. The Hellfire Club made sentinels when it was controlled by Frost and Shaw.

    The whole Emma loves to teach as a bit revisionist. The White Queen used the Hellions to fortify her place on the Hellfire Club, and was not above using them as an assassin. She was also the headmistress, which is an administrative role. She wasn't a teacher or a teacher type. She was CEO of Frost Enterprises.

    We know before she became a skilled telepath she was a thief/hooker/stripper.

    She "loved" Cyclops, but at least some of that was her sleeping her way up to the top. She for awhile was queen of mutants, until Cyclops lost his throne after he killed Xavier. With Cyclops's death she really lost most of her status in the X-Men. She certainly isn't friends with any of them. She manipulated things so she could continue to be a leader, but all this has been exposed and now she is a wanted woman for committing genocidal acts.
    Its like that was forgotten. There is a REASON she was the White Queen. This is the Emma I've waited for. It was a travesty seeing her subservient to Cyclops. To the point that she couldn't even make sense on an X-team without him. Emma on X-gold? lol. Blue team? lol. At least Jean got to be on a separate team than Scott back in the day and show her worth.

    They might as well make her to be the reason for Scott's downfall to redeem him.

  13. #433
    Mighty Member airdreams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    She also manipulated Firestar and killed her horse, in an attempt to use her as an assassin against Selene.
    True but Emma had already apologized for killing the horse in Generation X #59 and Firestar clearly accepted the apology of her. Firestar burnt Emma's apartment in Young Allies #6, and what Emma was trying to do was to suggest her join the X-Men, and then she appreciated Emma's advice at the end of issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    Oh I forgot how she got to be the White Queen. The council of the chosen was a bunch of anti mutant billionaires who had companies that were making sentinels. Only they invited in people who were mutants Shaw, Frost, Leland, Tessa, and Lourdes Chantel. They killed the council of the chosen and took their companies. The Hellfire Club made sentinels when it was controlled by Frost and Shaw.
    I guess I just replied the same thing to you 2 time recently to clarify that Emma had nothing to do with the sentinels in HFC. I thought you might just forget or didn't know the detail but now here again you vaguely hinted that she's involved into the plan. Sorry if wrong but intentionally misleading is really not good.

    Then again, Emma, during her early days as the White Queen, after finding out that Sebastian Shaw secretly funded the mutant-hunting sentinel program to keep it under his thumb, was furious amd tried to stop Shawbut before she reacted Selene erased her memories of it, that's why she still worked with shaw afterwards. And the reason of her telepathically forcing Ned Buckman to kill other members of the inner council was that the original HFC planed to eliminate all mutants by releasing sentinels (but stopped by her, she saved countless mutants who would had been killed by those sentinels). She had nothing to do with the sentinels thing in HFC.

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    The whole Emma loves to teach as a bit revisionist. The White Queen used the Hellions to fortify her place on the Hellfire Club, and was not above using them as an assassin. She was also the headmistress, which is an administrative role. She wasn't a teacher or a teacher type. She was CEO of Frost Enterprises.
    The death of her original Hellions was Emma's turning point that pushed her down a totally different path, after this tragedy she began to rethink herself and her old method of teaching students profoundly. And we've all read what happened next. That's not the so-called revisionist, but the real character development, which all great characters must have.

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    She "loved" Cyclops, but at least some of that was her sleeping her way up to the top. She for awhile was queen of mutants, until Cyclops lost his throne after he killed Xavier. With Cyclops's death she really lost most of her status in the X-Men. She certainly isn't friends with any of them. She manipulated things so she could continue to be a leader, but all this has been exposed and now she is a wanted woman for committing genocidal acts.
    See, you yourself said that Scott lost his throne after killing Xavier, but Emma still chose to stay with him, right? Why would she do that if she's "her sleeping her way up to the top"? And she stayed with Scott, who was in his low point then, on Utopia where she liquidates her company in order to bankroll Utopia for the time being.*Without her support the Utopia and the Extinction Team would be out of existence. She did say in the issue that she preferred teaching to training but still chose to stay with her lover. Supporting his dream even at the cost of giving up the dream of herself is love. Don't derail it to the stupid argument about who loved him more though, I'm so tired of it.

    Emma had never been such a important villain as she's hyped. I guess that's just a way to emphasize her role of reformed villain.And she had cooperated with the X-Men for 10 more years and then joined them about 17 years. Nearly 30 years being a reformed villain.

    Joining the X-Men was the making of Emma. Both HFC's White Queen and Generation X’s headmistress was great, but Morrison made her perfect and more popular; his New X-Men defined Emma, who we love or hate, and keep talking about. Her moral ambiguity, her concerns about students, the fact that she's powerful and self-made lady, that she walks the fine line between hero and villain… all of what Emma attract readers have represented perfectly when she's with X-Men; even her villainous past became more interesting and debatable due to her being an X-Men. Quite the opposite, buying the world is the thing that every cliched, boring villain wanna do, I've never found it that interesting.

    And her way of becoming an X-Man was utterly compelling. She had never been an arch-enemy of X-Men; there were many battles between the junior X-Men, the New Mutants, and Emma's own trained Hellion, with some New Mutants eventually switching teams as what began as a bitter enmity gradually became an un-serious "rivalry". Professor Xavier even believed that the purpose of Emma’s school was instructional in the same manner as his; she had wanted to be a teacher, after all. That's why Xavier tried to console Emma after she found out the death of the Hellion and agreed to the Massachusetts Academy, then renamed the school for gifted youngsters, being used to train a new generation of mutants, as a gesture of faith; and Xavier let Emma be the tutor and headmistress of the school. When Banshee doubt if Emma was a good choice to be those kids' teacher, Xavier was the one who vouched for her in UXM 318. In Gen X #75, Emma talked with Xavier on phone and left in a helicopter; then we knew that she was teaching in the Genosha after that. Xavier helped to cover up for her from the investigation of Adrienne's death. And in New X-Men #116, Jean Grey said to rescuers "Emma! She's one of us. X-Men!"*All of those things, which had happened before the triangle affair, can indicate that Emma joining the X-Men was meticulously and originally planned, in a convincing way.
    Last edited by airdreams; 03-10-2017 at 04:01 AM.
    In dog days, all we need is Frost.

  14. #434
    BANNED dragonmp93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    He clearly specifically says she killed my people. He probably didn't think she had programmed a bunch of genocidal sentinels to slaughter Inhumans.

    Not even Magneto would do this. He would have killed Inhumans in battle if he HAD to, but to just go straight up genocidal when he was the victim of the Holocaust? No.
    Like i said, since when attacking with Sentinels is genocide ?, the normal humans have done that for more than 50 years.

    Sure, he did said that; just like that Emma has a video of a CGI Cyclops being killed by Blackbolt, but that doesnt make it true either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ianbarreilles View Post
    Yeah this is exactly why I really don't quite understand the Emma was right argument people have coined she basically ordered the mass executions of inhumans right there on the spot as well as Emma forcing forge against his will telepathically to create reprogrammed mutant killing sentinels into being inhuman killing sentinels as well as mind controlling magneto against his will and finally the killing of ahura's people who were completely innocent who were actually trying to help the situation by providing their and ahura's resources to help forge and moon girl rebuild forge's machine.
    And the mutants that died because of the cloud werent innocent as well ?.

  15. #435
    Astonishing Member Ianbarreilles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonmp93 View Post
    Like i said, since when attacking with Sentinels is genocide ?, the normal humans have done that for more than 50 years.

    Sure, he did said that; just like that Emma has a video of a CGI Cyclops being killed by Blackbolt, but that doesnt make it true either.



    And the mutants that died because of the cloud werent innocent as well ?.
    Did I say that? No I don't believe I did or even implied that the mutants that lost their lives because of the terrigen cloud weren't innocent they were very much innocent.
    Last edited by Ianbarreilles; 03-10-2017 at 04:26 AM.

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