SuperWoman #8 Discuss (Spoilers!)

[DragonPiece]

The solicit also says "the world of the Amazing Amazon expands in a collection of short stories that take Wonder Woman around the globe! In the days after “Year One,” Diana comes face-to-face with Superman and Batman for the first time" Really look at the "and Batman" and "for the first time" part. That indicates that she hasn't met Bruce before this, but that wouldn't make sense if Justice League #1 is still in continuity as we know it now by the end of Reborn. This is Wonder Woman meeting a Clark that is clearly not the New 52 Clark, and Bruce for the first time without the Justice League. Dude, that's a retcon.

so much in the new 52 was rooted in that first fight with darkseid though, so that's such a big thing to retcon.

[Lucas 35]

It really pisses off people talking like New 52 Superman and Superdad were different characters, as if you could only like one of them, superman is superman, the only difference is one of them being married and having a child, I do not see them as Different people.

[Superlad93]

so much in the new 52 was rooted in that first fight with darkseid though, so that's such a big thing to retcon.

True, but it's not like I'm just making this up. Plus, I imagine that if they want to keep ties to it then they can just retcon how it went. Like, as opposed to the members of the league randomly for that fight, you could have it so Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman were on the scene first, as a team, then the others showed up. That would be very much in line with what the movies are presenting. I mean, JL #1 was Diana's first time off the island, but but as of the coming annual, it seems that she actually traveled the globe before meeting Clark and Bruce. These are already retcons details JL #1.

I do think they'll keep the Darkseid invasion because it has some synergy with the current films, but I think the details with be retconed.

[RedWhiteAndBlueSupes]

Trinity Annual #1

Written by ROB WILLIAMS—Art and cover by GUILLEM MARCH

You don’t betray Ra’s al Ghul and legendary sorceress Circe and just walk away. That’s what Lex Luthor is about to learn the hard way. Now, he has to unite with his former Justice League teammates if he wants to stay alive. Meanwhile, the Trinity fear this ordeal will push Lex back to the dark side.

Trinity Annual confirms Lex was still a member of the JL.

[Lokimaru]

It really pisses off people talking like New 52 Superman and Superdad were different characters, as if you could only like one of them, superman is superman, the only difference is one of them being married and having a child, I do not see them as Different people.

People are talking about New52 Superman like he's some thing that was created just to deceive them just because of a few words the villian said and I don't think that's fair since he's really the victim in all this. Let's not forget the guy made the ultimate sacrifice doing whats right as Superman. A Superman died and no one gives a shit that's what pisses me off and why I can't let it go.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

do think they'll keep the Darkseid invasion because it has some synergy with the current films, but I think the details with be retconed.

Hopefully, one of those "details" is that that JL isn't the first JL and they finally restore the real founding of the JLA and the team's history.

[Superlad93]

Trinity Annual #1

Trinity Annual confirms Lex was still a member of the JL.

This doesn't negate the Wonder Woman Annual or the idea that they'll be doing selective retconning to the currnet universe. I mean, Lana is already complaining about oddities in her memory, and in the Action Comics issue before Reborn, she somehow knew of Mr. El's mountain fortress even though he'd never taken her and she'd never looked for it.

I mean, again, this whole issue of Superwoman was about Lana wondering what memories she'd keep (and no, this isn't her speaking about the dream because she's clearly talking about her actual childhood with Clark) and her coming to the realization that the New 52 Lois and Clark are in fact the same people as the pre-52 ones who have a son. We know this because Lois confirms it.

So I'm sure they've selectively retcon it so Lex still dubs himself Superman at some point.

[Superlad93]

Hopefully, one of those "details" is that that JL isn't the first JL and they finally restore the real founding of the JLA and the team's history.

I'd like to see MM back as a founder, and Cyborg coming along later after his time with the TT. However, given the films, I'm not super sure of this.

But we do know that the JSA is coming back into Earth-0 continuity, so that's a massive retcon to the New 52's idea that super people are a very new thing. So, maybe they won't mind putting MM back on as a founder?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

This doesn't negate the Wonder Woman Annual or the idea that they'll be doing selective retconning to the currnet universe. I mean, Lana is already complaining about oddities in her memory, and in the Action Comics issue before Reborn, she somehow knew of Mr. El's mountain fortress even though he'd never taken her and she'd never looked for it.

I mean, again, this whole issue of Superwoman was about Lana wondering what memories she'd keep (and no, this isn't her speaking about the dream because she's clearly talking about her actual childhood with Clark) and her coming to the realization that the New 52 Lois and Clark are in fact the same people as the pre-52 ones who have a son. We know this because Lois confirms it.

So I'm sure they've selectively retcon it so Lex still dubs himself Superman at some point.

I think it'll more so be about reaffirming that Superman's Pre-Flashpoint pas happened in this timeline. As in, reaffirming that this isn't a separate world like Clark and Lois thought more so than it is about rewriting anything. If we look at the post-Superman Reborn cover for Action Comics, there are several scenes literally ripped out of panels from Pre-Flashpoint comics like Lois and Clark's wedding. Also, we see Jon's birth exactly the way it originally transpired, with Clark in his Superman suit. If they folded Jon into the timeline and rewrote stuff, wouldn't Clark be in civies? I'd assume that Lois would've given birth in a regular hospital.

Also, an upcoming Trinity solicit (I forget which) has Clark telling Bruce and Diana about what happened during Superman: Reborn. If Mxy alters his memories or rewrites his history, what will there be for Clark to tell them? My guess is that Superman: Reborn will reveal that Pre-Flashpoint Superman is simply the "result" of Nuperman reclaiming the 10 years that were stolen off his life by Flashpoint. In other words, Superman became himself again after "dying." So, Clark will simply relate to Bruce and Diana how they've always been his Bruce and Diana, but they've simply had those years stolen off their lives too.

As for the Wonder Woman annual, the first meeting of the Trinity has been told and retold over the years. But, if what I hypothesize is true, then it will be retconning away the Darkseid invasion as being the founding of the League, and hopefully that will allow us to see the Silver Age League (at least) restored to canon.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I'd like to see MM back as a founder, and Cyborg coming along later after his time with the TT. However, given the films, I'm not super sure of this.

Hey, Marvel still has the OG Avengers as the founding roster, even though Captain America, Black Widow, and Hawkeye are founders in the films.

[MeloDet]

So I knew I was going to be disappointed either way, but I was hoping that we'd at least see N52 briefly before the merger. But if this issue is to be believed the only N52 Supes that'll be present is a version that already has the memories of Post-Crisis Supes?

Anyway other than that it is impressive how well they're trying the loose ends together. Even if it's not for me I hope it goes over well!

[RedWhiteAndBlueSupes]

I think it'll more so be about reaffirming that Superman's Pre-Flashpoint pas happened in this timeline. As in, reaffirming that this isn't a separate world like Clark and Lois thought more so than it is about rewriting anything. If we look at the post-Superman Reborn cover for Action Comics, there are several scenes literally ripped out of panels from Pre-Flashpoint comics like Lois and Clark's wedding. Also, we see Jon's birth exactly the way it originally transpired, with Clark in his Superman suit. If they folded Jon into the timeline and rewrote stuff, wouldn't Clark be in civies? I'd assume that Lois would've given birth in a regular hospital.

yeah I mean I haven't seen the skies turning red or anything lol. The Superman being reborn is the pre flashpoint one by finding out he is in his own universe. That is what gives him the motivation and knowledge to tackle mr. oz. after this event. If Jon was retconned into the timeline by mxy who seems to have no interest in doing so than red/blue would not have existed and Supes would have no reason to go after mr oz. hell who cares if your enjoying retcon bliss? it's also interesting that Mxy referred to him as "blue" I think Mxy reveals more about his involvement next issue of Superman.

Also, an upcoming Trinity solicit (I forget which) has Clark telling Bruce and Diana about what happened during Superman: Reborn. If Mxy alters his memories or rewrites his history, what will there be for Clark to tell them?

My guess is that Superman: Reborn will reveal that Pre-Flashpoint Superman is simply the "result" of Nuperman reclaiming the 10 years that were stolen off his life by Flashpoint. In other words, Superman became himself again after "dying."

Yeah... maybe but I'm not sure how that would work. It's very possible that Convergence wasn't what we thought it was and Supes was "out of time" or "off the field" like the characters in Mr Oz.'s prison.

So, Clark will simply relate to Bruce and Diana how they've always been his Bruce and Diana, but they've simply had those years stolen off their lives too.

This provides a much more credible way for Jon to exist in the current DCU than rewriting him from Superbaby lol.

As for the Wonder Woman annual, the first meeting of the Trinity has been told and retold over the years. But, if what I hypothesize is true, then it will be retconning away the Darkseid invasion as being the founding of the League, and hopefully that will allow us to see the Silver Age League (at least) restored to canon.

Yes at the very least they need to restore the silver age league. Supes seems to remember all kinds of stuff from action 975 so i assume he remembers the classic JL.

[Superlad93]

If they folded Jon into the timeline and rewrote stuff, wouldn't Clark be in civies? I'd assume that Lois would've given birth in a regular hospital.

We're not totally sure what that cover means at this point, and how literal or symbolic it is. I mean, don't we see what appears to be a Superman in a mix of a New 52 and classic suit? If we take that (and this issue of Superwoman) at face value then it's clear that they meld in some aspects. I mean New 52 Lois basically says that she and Clark are Pre-52 Lois and Clark. Also apparently Wonder Woman will be meeting a non-high collared Superman before the JL is formed post-Reborn.

The issue of Action that we're talking about has Superman remembering his life up till this point (including Jon's birth). It seems pretty darn obvious that this issue is there to establish what the working continuity is after Reborn, and I'd imagine that includes an altered explanation for Jon's birth, why Lex is a Superman, and why the Kents moved for a time.

If Mxy alters his memories or rewrites his history, what will there be for Clark to tell them?

My guess is that he'll be the only one to have some memories of what happened before the changes. I'm theorizing that he and Mxy will strike a deal, and Mxy will leave him memories so he can figure out how to combat Oz.

As for the Wonder Woman annual, the first meeting of the Trinity has been told and retold over the years. But, if what I hypothesize is true, then it will be retconning away the Darkseid invasion as being the founding of the League, and hopefully that will allow us to see the Silver Age League (at least) restored to canon.

If such a retcon can be accepted then I don't see why Jon's birth and Superman's life being integrated into current continuity can't be accepted. I mean, if you're somehow worried that his pre-flashpoint history will be lost then I think you're safe. I like pre-52 is going to be the lion's share (if not outright complete) of the continuity for Superman going forward.

[DragonPiece]

I think it would still be cool if Lois still had birth in the bat cave for some reason, just in this continuity.

[brucekent12]

I wont read the books until I pick them up Thurs. evening after work, so I hope this all makes more sense after I read them, but what effect if any will there be with Supes having had a relationship with Wonder Woman? Will it affect Clark's marriage to Lois, if New52 Lpis and Clark get those 10 missing years back as some prople on this board think?