Jessica Jones #6 SPOILERS

[Ianbarreilles]

Did you read Civil War II #4? She didn't get held for mild questioning, she was snatched off the street by armed shield agents pointing high powered rifles at her face. When she resisted, Captain Marvel ruffed her up then had her dragged away while she was crying. After being held for 72 hours (the legal maximum length of time you can be held in New York without being charged with a crime) and having her privacy violated by Shield psychics, Captain Marvel was informed that Alison had done nothing illegal and must be released.



Does Captain Marvel let a little thing like the law stop her in her tracks? Neeeeeewp. Carol Marches in, accuses her of being a deep cover Hydra agent, tells her she's going to be tried (without allowing her access to legal council), and informs her that she can be held against her will indefinitely. When told she needs proof, Carol says they'll find it later.



That right there is evil. Plain and simple. You arrest someone when you have evidence of a crime. You do not get to detain someone indefinitely until evidence can be provided at a later time to justify an arrest. Carol broke the law and violated Alison's civil rights. She also traumatized the woman into becoming a criminal reactionary. Carol is one of the bad guys. She's become another stupid Jack Bauer super-fascist analogue. A great hero for people not concerned about little things like the common good.

The government and the president okayed the arrest of Alison Greene and everything else and other arrests Carol did and made with her pre crime justice system she was enforcing during civil war ii so no to the government it wasn't illegal or breaking any civil rights.

I'm sorry if you feel that what Carol was doing was going against civil rights and that see was breaking the law but in the eyes of the president and the u.s. Government she wasn't it was government sanctioned arrests and in their eyes lawful and Carol was simply carrying out and enforcing what the government and the president viewed as legal.

Oh and as shown in many tie ins and even in her book of mighty captain marvel the citizens of the marvel universe view her actions as justified and right.

Oh and please don't bring up how in the in the real world governments do fucked up things that may be seen as and are illegal and unlawful that go against civil rights because I'm talking about the marvel comics not the real world.

#Carolwas right.

[Prof. Warren]

Did you read Civil War II #4? She didn't get held for mild questioning, she was snatched off the street by armed shield agents pointing high powered rifles at her face. When she resisted, Captain Marvel ruffed her up then had her dragged away while she was crying. After being held for 72 hours (the legal maximum length of time you can be held in New York without being charged with a crime) and having her privacy violated by Shield psychics, Captain Marvel was informed that Alison had done nothing illegal and must be released.



Does Captain Marvel let a little thing like the law stop her in her tracks? Neeeeeewp. Carol Marches in, accuses her of being a deep cover Hydra agent, tells her she's going to be tried (without allowing her access to legal council), and informs her that she can be held against her will indefinitely. When told she needs proof, Carol says they'll find it later.



That right there is evil. Plain and simple. You arrest someone when you have evidence of a crime. You do not get to detain someone indefinitely until evidence can be provided at a later time to justify an arrest. Carol broke the law and violated Alison's civil rights. She also traumatized the woman into becoming a criminal reactionary. Carol is one of the bad guys. She's become another stupid Jack Bauer super-fascist analogue. A great hero for people not concerned about little things like the common good.

Nothing Carol did to Alison would justify Alison's willingness to murder children. Nothing. I don't care how long she was detained. The appropriate response to that is not planning to kill a group of kids.

End of story.

[Wiccan]

Did you read Civil War II #4? She didn't get held for mild questioning, she was snatched off the street by armed shield agents pointing high powered rifles at her face. When she resisted, Captain Marvel ruffed her up then had her dragged away while she was crying. After being held for 72 hours (the legal maximum length of time you can be held in New York without being charged with a crime) and having her privacy violated by Shield psychics, Captain Marvel was informed that Alison had done nothing illegal and must be released.



Does Captain Marvel let a little thing like the law stop her in her tracks? Neeeeeewp. Carol Marches in, accuses her of being a deep cover Hydra agent, tells her she's going to be tried (without allowing her access to legal council), and informs her that she can be held against her will indefinitely. When told she needs proof, Carol says they'll find it later.



That right there is evil. Plain and simple. You arrest someone when you have evidence of a crime. You do not get to detain someone indefinitely until evidence can be provided at a later time to justify an arrest. Carol broke the law and violated Alison's civil rights. She also traumatized the woman into becoming a criminal reactionary. Carol is one of the bad guys. She's become another stupid Jack Bauer super-fascist analogue. A great hero for people not concerned about little things like the common good.

I know all of that and my point stands. Technically she did not broke the law as SHIELD and well, Carol herself as Alpha Flight commander had authority to do that. Carol was thought Ulysses visions was an evidence. It was true after all that Thanos was coming to earth to get the cosmic cube, and that a celestial came to earth. Yes, she and Ulysses were wrong this time, but he was right on times where they could possibly not even be alive if they didn't had acted based on the visions, so she ended up just taking it what he said as truth, and that was her mistake here.

Yes it was awful that she ended up doing that, but saying she's an "evil fascist" for it it's just not true. She did something bad thinking it was the right thing to do, when put on extreme stress. That's a human mistake. Planning on fucking murdering children as revenge against one person is not.

[Mike_Murdock]

This debate is one we have in the real world when it comes to the institutionalization of people in prisons. Someone steals something, goes to jail to get punished, ends up socializing with people who are already in jail, comes out more likely to commit crimes. If they end up committing more crimes, people still punish them even if society helped create the problem.

Allison Greene did nothing wrong at first, it seems. But, rightly or wrongly, she basically became a supervillain. I don't think this book is necessarily exploring this to justify Carol's previous actions at all.

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

Nothing Carol did to Alison would justify Alison's willingness to murder children. Nothing. I don't care how long she was detained. The appropriate response to that is not planning to kill a group of kids.

End of story.

Sorry. Not the end. The point is that Carol radicalized this woman. She frightened her out of her mind by abusing her authority until Alison snapped. Alison deserves to be in prison for her attempted crimes, however Carol deserves to be severely reprimanded for what she did as well. Fired even. A woman became a terrorist as a direct result of her actions. How can this have no consequences or acknowledgement? A civilized country doesn't bow to absolute authority no matter what the Stephen Millers of the world say.

This debate is one we have in the real world when it comes to the institutionalization of people in prisons. Someone steals something, goes to jail to get punished, ends up socializing with people who are already in jail, comes out more likely to commit crimes. If they end up committing more crimes, people still punish them even if society helped create the problem.

Allison Greene did nothing wrong at first, it seems. But, rightly or wrongly, she basically became a supervillain. I don't think this book is necessarily exploring this to justify Carol's previous actions at all.

it would be a far richer story if it did. It's way more complex than Carol's insipid: "Yay, we stopped the bad guys! Hugs."

[Ianbarreilles]

Sorry. Not the end. The point is that Carol radicalized this woman. She frightened her out of her mind by abusing her authority until Alison snapped. Alison deserves to be in prison for her attempted crimes, however Carol deserves to be severely reprimanded for what she did as well. Fired even. A woman became a terrorist as a direct result of her actions. How can this have no consequences or acknowledgement? A civilized country doesn't bow to absolute authority no matter what the Stephen Millers of the world say.



it would be a far richer story if it did. It's way more complex than Carol's insipid: "Yay, we stopped the bad guys! Hugs."

The intent isn't to make Carol as a villian bendis will even admit this.

And Carol didn't abuse her authority that the government gave her by santactioning her pre crime justice system much like alpha flight and the ultimates these are sanctioned by the government and what they expect of these teams is to protect the earth and world at any and all cost from disaster and tragedy same with government allowing Carol to enforce her pre crime justice system arrests if they believe the arrests are right and worth going through they'll grant Carol the authority to go through the arrests and she even would go before a board before each arrest to let a board of government officials know that she had proof of this vision that this or that person planned to do this or that putting this or that person in danger so they granted her the right to go through with arrests.

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

The intent isn't to make Carol as a villian bendis will even admit this.

It's less about Carol being a villain and more about her refusing to acknowledge that she made a mistake. When her compatriots informed her that she was wrong, she double-down instead of admitting they were right. That's the scary part. Remember, in real life the CIA has officially acknowledged that Guantanamo bay contains prisoners that they've ascertained have committed no crimes, but should not ever be released because they've been tortured for years and now hate America, and if they were ever released they'd become rallying symbols for radical terror. Horrifying ineptitude. Way to go, spy-guys!

Of course reality reflects fiction I guess, since the people responsible for the Khaleed al-Masri debacle have all been promoted, and awarded medals. So perhaps expecting anyone to discipline Colonel Danvers is unrealistic.

And Carol didn't abuse her authority that the government gave her by santactioning her pre crime justice system much like alpha flight and the ultimates these are sanctioned by the government and what they expect of these teams is to protect the earth and world at any and all cost from disaster and tragedy same with government allowing Carol to enforce her pre crime justice system arrests if they believe the arrests are right and worth going through they'll grant Carol the authority to go through the arrests and she even would go before a board before each arrest to let a board of government officials know that she had proof of this vision that this or that person planned to do this or that putting this or that person in danger so they granted her the right to go through with arrests.

Something doesn't become legal or moral just because the government says so. That's a lesson the ACLU taught the current administration regarding certain travel restrictions.

[Prof. Warren]

Sorry. Not the end. The point is that Carol radicalized this woman. She frightened her out of her mind by abusing her authority until Alison snapped. Alison deserves to be in prison for her attempted crimes, however Carol deserves to be severely reprimanded for what she did as well. Fired even. A woman became a terrorist as a direct result of her actions. How can this have no consequences or acknowledgement? A civilized country doesn't bow to absolute authority no matter what the Stephen Millers of the world say.

Being frightened is a poor excuse to become a fanatic. Alison could have become an activist in response to Carol's actions. She could be organizing marches and lobbying for justice. She could taking any number of positive steps to protect human rights. Instead she's planning murders. Carol's actions don't justify that.

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

Being frightened is a poor excuse to become a fanatic. Alison could have become an activist in response to Carol's actions. She could be organizing marches and lobbying for justice. She could taking any number of positive steps to protect human rights. Instead she's planning murders. Carol's actions don't justify that.

I agree with you 100% that murder was not an equitable response. Alison had to be stopped. (Not that she would have stood a chance against the Champions anyway.) I'm simply galled at Bendis-Carol's smugness in regards to this situation she created, and unwillingness to acknowledge her hand in this. It's awful. Just like IvX destroyed the work Grant Morrison, Joss Whedon, and Kieron Gillen put into rehabbing Emma Frost, it seems like this iteration of Captain Marvel is ruining What KSD did for this character. It's taken the empathetic and noble Carol Danvers and turned her into an establishment thug.

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

Oh and please don't bring up how in the in the real world governments do fucked up things that may be seen as and are illegal and unlawful that go against civil rights because I'm talking about the marvel comics not the real world.

Sorry, do you mean the same government that built the sentinels and plotted genocide against mutantkind? The same government that used assassins and psychotics like Bull's-eye and Venom to hunt down and kill unregistered heroes? The same government that continually tried to shut down the fantastic four and the Avengers? The same government that put Norman Osborn in charge of national security? The same government that just unknowingly put a Nazi in charge of shield? That's the government you think should go unquestioned? Their approval should fill her with shame.

[jackolover]

On one level I would have liked Alison Greene to start eliminating super heroes, and as the civilian that she is, she got pretty far in doing just that. More than I would have anticipated. But she lacked the resources, only having Spot and Jessica to get moving. I mean even if Alison was successful in killing Carol, (oh please, that nobody has been able to do), she would have so much law enforcement people on her tail, she would be way worse off than when Carol arrested Alison.

The concept was interesting, but Alison was a novice, she was spied upon, and entrapped by a sting. Alison was not even getting passed Jessica. This was a foolhardy enterprise from Greene from the beginning, and now she's ruined her life. This was nothing more than a disgruntled arrestee, who got out of her depth.

[mugiwara]

Nothing Carol did to Alison would justify Alison's willingness to murder children. Nothing. I don't care how long she was detained. The appropriate response to that is not planning to kill a group of kids.

End of story.

Especially when those children were part of the team that fought for her freedom.

[Bookem Danno]

Jessica Jones, Jessica Drew, Wanda Maximoff: With friends like Carol Danvers who need enemies?

There's some merits to the negatives reviewed here so far but for some reason this installment tickled my fancy more than the lead up. Still not gaga about the art like everyone seems to be but it was not bad this ish. Although, the depths to which Carol has sunk is as sad as these stylized poser covers are boring.

Question: Was the flashback a retconned encounter or did Jessica Jones ever clash with Doc Ock during her Jewel Days?

Preview.

[Knives]

The government and the president okayed the arrest of Alison Greene and everything else and other arrests Carol did and made with her pre crime justice system she was enforcing during civil war ii so no to the government it wasn't illegal or breaking any civil rights.

I'm sorry if you feel that what Carol was doing was going against civil rights and that see was breaking the law but in the eyes of the president and the u.s. Government she wasn't it was government sanctioned arrests and in their eyes lawful and Carol was simply carrying out and enforcing what the government and the president viewed as legal.

Oh and as shown in many tie ins and even in her book of mighty captain marvel the citizens of the marvel universe view her actions as justified and right.

Oh and please don't bring up how in the in the real world governments do fucked up things that may be seen as and are illegal and unlawful that go against civil rights because I'm talking about the marvel comics not the real world.

#Carolwas right.

Well in real life the US also attacked Iraq without evidence that they had weapons of mass destruction resulting in the deaths of hundreds of innocent people so I would say that the government is not always right.

The same in Comics they sanctioned the operation zero tolerance of Bastion and provided the resources that resulted in hundreds of deaths of mutants and his human family and almost killed the X-mens besides transforming humans in sentinels to hunt mutants.

But to be fair Carol saved lives too and after the confrontation with Stark even if she does not admit to herself she has doubts if what she did was right.

[jackolover]

Jessica Jones, Jessica Drew, Wanda Maximoff: With friends like Carol Danvers who need enemies?

There's some merits to the negatives reviewed here so far but for some reason this installment tickled my fancy more than the lead up. Still not gaga about the art like everyone seems to be but it was not bad this ish. Although, the depths to which Carol has sunk is as sad as these stylized poser covers are boring.

Question: Was the flashback a retconned encounter or did Jessica Jones ever clash with Doc Ock during her Jewel Days?

Preview.

To my mind, Jewel never fought Doc Ock, but then, Bendis has so much lost continuity he can insert about any event he wants.