Rebirth JSA: how to bring back the kids?

[MajorHoy]

how to bring back the kids?

Well, lets see how DC brings back the JSA first and afterwards we'll talk about the kids.

Are you sure you belong here? You actually make sense!
(Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks too many people are approaching this ass-backwards!)

The only time the Justice Society has been a real hit is when Geoff Johns was writting them. When he left the last series it quickly started tanking even with quality writers coming after him. It is by no means money in the bank.

There was also a somewhat fun / popular series in the early 1990s that DC suddenly cancelled for no clear reason (and then a couple of years later killed off more JSA old-timers in Zero Hour).

[Ascended]

I say if you want to have all the kids and everything back you need to put the whole thing back on its own Earth. Trying to squeeze it all back into the current main Earth is just going to be a mess waiting to happen.

Cosigned.

I like the JSA, and I liked the "elder statesmen" concept that they had in the modern age.

But trying to fit them into the main DCU seems like a bad idea. It caused issues in post-Crisis, it'll cause issues now.

I'd rather see the JSA on Earth-2, with as much of their history as possible included. That way you can have everything from the WWII history to Infinity Inc to Jack Knight and Stargirl and (almost) everything else, without screwing with the "main" universe's history or having to make allowances for Power Girl's origin or how Huntress can be Bruce's daughter when she's only a few years younger than he is.

It just seems cleaner, and you can have the JSA (and their legacies) remain the primary heroes of their world, no need for finding a new niche for them to fill. That was a big problem back in the day; figuring out exactly what purpose the JSA served. They werent the big name, mainline heroes, that was the League. They weren't the training ground for younger heroes, that was the Titans (though the JSA did try to steal that, to poor effect). So what reason did they have for being a team? Leave them on Earth-2 and you have your answer. Sure, they wont be seen to "matter" as much as the League, since they're on a secondary world....but how is that any different from them being on the main earth and being regulated to secondary, also-ran heroes?

The post-Crisis history where the JSA interact with the JLA can easily be retconned into multiversal adventures without losing the core of the story.

Really, the JSA's popularity seems closely connected to their history, and screwing with that seems self-defeating. Put them on their own earth, let them keep that history, and let them cross dimensions on a regular basis so they can still be involved in the big Events, and you're good.

[Ascended]

I'm sorry. I don't see the comparison. It's not like the JSA kids would be replacing anyone. They're a group who have had their own book before, and they'd just be getting a new one. It's not as if the second Maxine Hunkel, Jakeem Thunder, and Wildcat II return, three random other characters would get poofed out.

Actually, that's exactly what would happen.

DC doesnt have a limitless budget and they can only produce so much product in a given time. If they give the JSA or Infinity kids books of their own, that means someone else isn't getting a book.

Not hating on the JSA here, I want them back too. But that's just business; when you make something that means you're not making something else. The same can be said of Orlando's new JLA; guys like Lobo and The Ray and Vixen are in the book while Firestorm, Kate Spencer, and Vibe are still left in limbo.

[phantom1592]

Are you sure you belong here? You actually make sense!
(Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks too many people are approaching this ass-backwards!)

There was also a somewhat fun / popular series in the early 1990s that DC suddenly cancelled for no clear reason (and then a couple of years later killed off more JSA old-timers in Zero Hour).

Love that series. Actually what got me into the jsa in the first place.

That said I disagree about doing things backward. These stupid reboots and retcons are the result of dc not planning ahead. If you plan on there being a jade... don't make her father 18 years old or gay.

Plan ahead or there's just gonna need more crap writing to undig that hole. The kids are tough enough to deal with with time jumps anyway... you have to plan.

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

Len Strazewski later revealed in some interview (don't have a link, perhaps it can be Googled?) that the book was cancelled on the orders of Mike Carlin. Apparently Carlin was unaware or not paying attention to then-editor Mike Gold's output; it was Gold who helped spearhead the eight-issue miniseries starring the JSA in the early 90s (that was set in the 50's) that got the JSA attention and proved that a return could be not only favorably received by the audience but also profitable. If I remember correctly, Strazewski said that Carlin was vehemently against the return, and featured use, of characters from the Golden Age who were in their 60s-70s; that Carlin told him personally that Carlin hated the concept of the book, hated Strazewski's writing, and hated Mike Parobeck's art; and that it was this experience that soured him on ever working for DC Comics again. This wasn't without precedent, really; Carlin had moved to DC from Marvel several years ago, and at the time Marvel's editorial policy was pretty hostile towards the 99 percent of their Golden Age characters who weren't Captain America, Namor the Sub-Mariner, or a handful of their supporting cast/villains. Also, whoever was doing the letters column for Suicide Squad around the time of the Doom Patrol/Suicide Squad special mocked one reader's lament that the Golden Age Thinker (a JSA villain, no less) was killed off in that tale with something along the lines of "We're sorry you thought a man in his 70's was a viable character." Outside of Roy Thomas and a few others, there was some pretty blatant agism at play in DC (and Marvel).

[The Darknight Detective]

Len Strazewski later revealed in some interview (don't have a link, perhaps it can be Googled?) that the book was cancelled on the orders of Mike Carlin. Apparently Carlin was unaware or not paying attention to then-editor Mike Gold's output; it was Gold who helped spearhead the eight-issue miniseries starring the JSA in the early 90s (that was set in the 50's) that got the JSA attention and proved that a return could be not only favorably received by the audience but also profitable. If I remember correctly, Strazewski said that Carlin was vehemently against the return, and featured use, of characters from the Golden Age who were in their 60s-70s; that Carlin told him personally that Carlin hated the concept of the book, hated Strazewski's writing, and hated Mike Parobeck's art; and that it was this experience that soured him on ever working for DC Comics again. This wasn't without precedent, really; Carlin had moved to DC from Marvel several years ago, and at the time Marvel's editorial policy was pretty hostile towards the 99 percent of their Golden Age characters who weren't Captain America, Namor the Sub-Mariner, or a handful of their supporting cast/villains. Also, whoever was doing the letters column for Suicide Squad around the time of the Doom Patrol/Suicide Squad special mocked one reader's lament that the Golden Age Thinker (a JSA villain, no less) was killed off in that tale with something along the lines of "We're sorry you thought a man in his 70's was a viable character." Outside of Roy Thomas and a few others, there was some pretty blatant agism at play in DC (and Marvel).

IIRC, the sales numbers for the comic weren't that great for the time.

[MajorHoy]

IIRC, the sales numbers for the comic weren't that great for the time.

Is there a place where those numbers are posted?

Comichron's information for 1991-1992 doesn't seem to break overall sales down on a month-by-month basis; the numbers seem to be reflecting what would have been the top 100 or 300 comic books for the year, so it's harder to see if a title might have still been a moderate success or not.

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/1991.html
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/1992.html

[The Darknight Detective]

Is there a place where those numbers are posted?

Comichron's information for 1991-1992 doesn't seem to break overall sales down on a month-by-month basis; the numbers seem to be reflecting what would have been the top 100 or 300 comic books for the year, so it's harder to see if a title might have still been a moderate success or not.

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/1991.html
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/1992.html

Yeah, I don't remember how this was determined. There was a discussion about it a year or two ago on CBR, but I can't recall the thread.

[MajorHoy]

Yeah, I don't remember how this was determined. There was a discussion about it a year or two ago on CBR, but I can't recall the thread.

Oh, lord . . . please don't tell me we could be approaching the possibility of an "alternate facts" scenario?!?

[The Darknight Detective]

Oh, lord . . . please don't tell me we could be approaching the possibility of an "alternate facts" scenario?!?

Heh. No, I like my facts of the hard and real kind.

[Assam]

Anyone think we'll be seeing Matt Tyler again? I know his story was pretty much told, but I dunno, I think there are still stories to tell with him.

[MajorHoy]

Anyone think we'll be seeing Matt Tyler again? I know his story was pretty much told, but I dunno, I think there are still stories to tell with him.

I think they have enough to worry about trying to integrate "past" and "somewhat present-day" aspects of the JSA without dealing with a possibly no-longer-existing optional future.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I think its a possibility that most of the jsa had lived normal lives and probably have kids and grandkids (even great grandchildren) by now. So Infinity Inc would be just their descendants taking over for the originals.

I felt Tranquility the superhero retirement home town from Wildstorn would have been a great way to bring them back.

[SilverScarlet]

I hope we find out that Black Canary's mom was on the team as the original Black Canary.

[SilverScarlet]

As for the kids vs. the original team....I think the whole point of Rebirth is to start at the beginning, and build from there. I think the fact that we saw a 98(?) year old Johnny says they're going to at least start with the original team somehow, and I'm fine with that.