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  1. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nite-Wing View Post
    Batman can easily recover from this jobbing by beating Shiva in the end in a similar manner but of course that will never happen and if it does everyone will decry
    So ultimately Bruce gets brought down several pegs
    Shiva is inevitably losing in this arc and not gaining much besides a win over Bruce
    So then we end up back where we started
    Yeah, Bruce isn't gonna be getting a win on Shiva. Not in this arc at least. It's pretty clear Cass is gonna get the W at the end.

  2. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nite-Wing View Post
    Batman can easily recover from this jobbing by beating Shiva in the end in a similar manner but of course that will never happen and if it does everyone will decry
    So ultimately Bruce gets brought down several pegs
    Shiva is inevitably losing in this arc and not gaining much besides a win over Bruce
    So then we end up back where we started
    Sorry about the double post

  3. #393
    Extraordinary Member t hedge coke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    That`s not PIS, Nicieza especifically had Tim win due to prep. That`s a strenght of Tim`s character.
    It's a push for Tim. And, not a terrible one.

    But, it was also just a teensy bit ridiculous.

    Most of Shiva's losses, if I was really bothered to make sense of them, I'd have to write up to her just taking a fall for the lulz. Like Flash losing foot races, a story would have to make real effort to justify it, or it's just...
    Patsy Walker on TV! Patsy Walker in new comics! Patsy Walker in your brain! And Jessica Jones is the new Nancy! (Oh, and read the Comics Cube.)

  4. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    I`m aware of the situation (Panic In The Skies - Titans "Chaos" era for those who want to look it up) and that didn`t stop him from escaping/figthing some of the Titans (notably Nigthwing who gets physically dropped after just two hits),Green Lantern, Flash and Aquaman (the later being the true challenge of all of these by his own assertion). He could be exausted or hurt but he still has his stats. I don`t even require to wave this as a victory certificate (note how I never point out how Tiger "wins"), I`m showing how relative skill compares.
    Except he fought Tiger AFTER he went through those guys, on a relative scale Deathstroke was worse off by the time he got to Tiger and even in that fight it was Deadshot who came out impressive not Tiger. Its not a clean showing for Tiger on any level.



    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    The Batman of "then" is the one with a near flawless Martial Arts reputation that even Shiva gawked at. The Batman of "now" is the one kissing the floor after just two moves.
    The Batman of today went blow for blow with Deathstroke, owned Talon and thrashed Ra's. All characters well beyond the level of Judith. Bad showings from time to time are expected, even that Batman lost to SWAT teams and was given the fight of his life by Rick flipping Flag. Modern Tiger just got owned by a Bane thug and was destroyed by unsuited Slade just 1 issue before he fought Batman. So what I'm saying is that Batman's best showings are 100 times better than Tiger's and his low showings are still a 100 times better than Tiger's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    Sure he did, they both went feral and slashed/bite each other. You want to count how many panels Ben is still both talking/getting up/looking over Blake`s knocked out body before the loss of blood makes him drop?
    He still passed out immediately after Blake and would have died under 5 minutes had Flag not helped him. Blake was perfectly fine on the other hand.

  5. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    The way it was worded, Tynion basically pulled a Starlin. No point in laying down a statement like that only to choose one defeat over the other. It`s a categoric statement on itself.

    That`s not a good grasp of Shiva`s classic character. Shiva doesn`t fake orgasms. When she first met Dinah and had a sparring session for "fun" while O-Sensei and Oliver were talking, she gave Dinah bruises and a black eye.
    IMO, some bruises and black eye, is a kind of mercy treatment when we think about the fact that Lady Shiva could have leopard-blow her into the afterlife

  6. #396
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    I just hate how idiotic Batman is these days. He just bullrushes Shiva, even though she kicked his ass before in Nightwing? He keeps deciding to engage her in hand-to-hand combat for some reason when that's her ONLY weapon. The ONLY arena in which she beats him. Gas her, taze her, trap her, stun her, ANYTHING. Batman's greatest weapon is his mind, but writers like Tynion don't seem to understand that. He's NOT the greatest martial artist in the world. He's probably top 10, sure, but when it comes to pure hand-to-hand he's below the purists like Shiva, Bronze Tiger, Richard Dragon, etc...what makes him such a force is that he has many more weapons in his arsenal besides kung-fu. It's clear that Tynion just wanted to offer fanservice to Shiva fans, but didn't want to put in any real effort in doing so. He's used Bruce as nothing more than an exposition machine and his whipping boy for characters he likes better for this entire run.

    King's Bruce is weak sometimes, sure, and King definitely likes Dick more and writes him as something of a Mary Sue, but at least King puts in a semblance of an effort. You can believe him getting trashed by Bane in I am Suicide because he was willingly exposing himself to all that pain so that his teammates could maneuver to their positions safe and sound, and him being somewhat masochistic/suicidal was a subtheme of the story. In Rooftops he got his throat slashed by Holly because he was having an emotional freakout about the woman he loves and was taken by surprise. Him losing in these circumstances makes some sense and doesn't feel disrespectful to the character. In comparison, Tynion's 'Tec just feels exploitative and low effort.

  7. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryNotWolf View Post
    I just hate how idiotic Batman is these days. He just bullrushes Shiva, even though she kicked his ass before in Nightwing? He keeps deciding to engage her in hand-to-hand combat for some reason when that's her ONLY weapon. The ONLY arena in which she beats him. Gas her, taze her, trap her, stun her, ANYTHING. Batman's greatest weapon is his mind, but writers like Tynion don't seem to understand that. He's NOT the greatest martial artist in the world. He's probably top 10, sure, but when it comes to pure hand-to-hand he's below the purists like Shiva, Bronze Tiger, Richard Dragon, etc...what makes him such a force is that he has many more weapons in his arsenal besides kung-fu. It's clear that Tynion just wanted to offer fanservice to Shiva fans, but didn't want to put in any real effort in doing so. He's used Bruce as nothing more than an exposition machine and his whipping boy for characters he likes better for this entire run.

    King's Bruce is weak sometimes, sure, and King definitely likes Dick more and writes him as something of a Mary Sue, but at least King puts in a semblance of an effort. You can believe him getting trashed by Bane in I am Suicide because he was willingly exposing himself to all that pain so that his teammates could maneuver to their positions safe and sound, and him being somewhat masochistic/suicidal was a subtheme of the story. In Rooftops he got his throat slashed by Holly because he was having an emotional freakout about the woman he loves and was taken by surprise. Him losing in these circumstances makes some sense and doesn't feel disrespectful to the character. In comparison, Tynion's 'Tec just feels exploitative and low effort.
    Both are bad, I'm not denying that, but BatIdiot still bothers me less than Snyder's Batgod.

  8. #398
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryNotWolf View Post
    I just hate how idiotic Batman is these days. He just bullrushes Shiva, even though she kicked his ass before in Nightwing? He keeps deciding to engage her in hand-to-hand combat for some reason when that's her ONLY weapon. The ONLY arena in which she beats him. Gas her, taze her, trap her, stun her, ANYTHING. Batman's greatest weapon is his mind, but writers like Tynion don't seem to understand that. He's NOT the greatest martial artist in the world. He's probably top 10, sure, but when it comes to pure hand-to-hand he's below the purists like Shiva, Bronze Tiger, Richard Dragon, etc...what makes him such a force is that he has many more weapons in his arsenal besides kung-fu. It's clear that Tynion just wanted to offer fanservice to Shiva fans, but didn't want to put in any real effort in doing so. He's used Bruce as nothing more than an exposition machine and his whipping boy for characters he likes better for this entire run.

    King's Bruce is weak sometimes, sure, and King definitely likes Dick more and writes him as something of a Mary Sue, but at least King puts in a semblance of an effort. You can believe him getting trashed by Bane in I am Suicide because he was willingly exposing himself to all that pain so that his teammates could maneuver to their positions safe and sound, and him being somewhat masochistic/suicidal was a subtheme of the story. In Rooftops he got his throat slashed by Holly because he was having an emotional freakout about the woman he loves and was taken by surprise. Him losing in these circumstances makes some sense and doesn't feel disrespectful to the character. In comparison, Tynion's 'Tec just feels exploitative and low effort.
    I strongly disagree - I think Tynion loves Bruce, but doesn't think Bruce always has to win. His Bruce is struggling to lead by knowing his team, and I think that's where Tynion's real energy is being spent. As far as fights go, sure, Batman could try to pull a Tim and use poison, but I found that incredibly dissatisfying when Tim did it, and wouldn't find it much more interesting if Bruce did it.
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  9. #399
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryNotWolf View Post
    I just hate how idiotic Batman is these days. He just bullrushes Shiva, even though she kicked his ass before in Nightwing?
    She beat him in Nightwing because she ambushed and badly poisoned him first. He was not fighting back there, and in fact couldn't.

    He keeps deciding to engage her in hand-to-hand combat for some reason when that's her ONLY weapon. The ONLY arena in which she beats him. Gas her, taze her, trap her, stun her, ANYTHING.
    Except he says he's beaten her before. He has no reason to think he wouldn't be able to do so again.

    King's Bruce is weak sometimes, sure, and King definitely likes Dick more and writes him as something of a Mary Sue, but at least King puts in a semblance of an effort. You can believe him getting trashed by Bane in I am Suicide because he was willingly exposing himself to all that pain so that his teammates could maneuver to their positions safe and sound, and him being somewhat masochistic/suicidal was a subtheme of the story.
    It would've been nice if there had been a hint of that being the plan before it was revealed as such, though.

    In Rooftops he got his throat slashed by Holly because he was having an emotional freakout about the woman he loves and was taken by surprise.
    Maybe, but it also raises the question of why the hell his throat's not armored.
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  10. #400
    Extraordinary Member adrikito's Avatar
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    What a shame... But I understand prefer Dick Grayson than bruce..

    The first images... Of course, Batman/Superman Public Enemies, mongul is here.. I see the film..
    Last edited by adrikito; 03-24-2017 at 09:08 AM.

  11. #401
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    Maybe, but it also raises the question of why the hell his throat's not armored.
    Probably so that he can turn his head
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
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  12. #402
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightwingIvI View Post
    Probably so that he can turn his head
    But in Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises, he designs a neck guard that allows for movement and protection, doesn't he?
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  13. #403
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    But in Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises, he designs a neck guard that allows for movement and protection, doesn't he?
    While it improves flexibility, I doubt that someone who forswears hoods for their disturbance of peripheral vision to want that kind of resistance or impeded neck rotation and head movement. But I mainly just wanted an excuse to use that gif.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  14. #404
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    That is a good gif.

  15. #405
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightwingIvI View Post
    Probably so that he can turn his head
    I was thinking something more along the lines of a gorget. Those allow the wearer to turn their head, and it wouldn't even have to be that thick or made of superstrong material. 2-3 mm of a hard-but-flexible plastic would've blocked a slash attack like that.

    Edit - something like this:

    Last edited by Caivu; 03-24-2017 at 11:25 AM.
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