Why does it seem impossible to have a civil spidey discussion?

[Mister Mets]

People have strong opinions, which never helps. The Internet also seems to bring out the worst in people. I think there's also the tendency that things get into a zero sum game; for one side to get what they want out of a comic series, the other side looses what they want.

I think having multiple series helps (like how currently, the main Spider-Man comics are doing different stuff that goes beyond the the basics of the character, while the RYV series is rooted in a version that's more familiar to fans of the classic era). For me, at least, having something like the latter that fits what I'm looking for, makes it easier to let live and let live. Once there's only one source and it's not the droids I'm looking for, then I'm not happy.

Regardless, people do need to be polite, even when critiquing. I think there's also a point where something just isn't written for you and griping about it doesn't do anyone any real good (even if being able to vent offers some momentary relief).

The zero sum game aspect is a good point.

I think an additional issue is that some people have an inflated sense of the power of message board arguments, thinking that it will affect the outcome, partly due to the accessibility of creators online. So if you want something to happen in the comics (IE- Wolverine's return) a comment about how it might not happen (that might incidentally come from someone who might like it to happen) could be seen as a threat. What if it ends up encouraging someone in power?

[The Negative Zone]

I thought we were more tame compared to the other boards?

[oldschool]

I agree about the zero sum game being a big part of it; in fact, it's much the same with arguments about politics today. But, while both have the zero sum game in common, another point that make both debates so challenging is just a breakdown in overall civil discourse these days. I am old enough to remember life when conversations were all had in person face-to-face; there is no doubt that debating online, whether on Facebook or message boards, emboldens people to use more aggressive and frankly rude language and to essentially behave in a way that they wouldn't if said conversation was taking place over a cup of coffee or a drink. Part of the reason why I believe we all would be well served to occasionally put down our cell phones and interact in person a bit more than we tend to do in 2017.

[SilverSpider]

It's the nature of us humans. We often go all in when it comes to arguments, being respectful is something to be learned, not something we are born with.
We are also emotional. Emotion's make us throw ration out.

What I found that usually works when things go overboard, is just saying something along the lines of I understand what you mean, but at the same time I disagree with it, state the reason why I disagree with it, and leave it at that.

[classicgmer]

The Spidey boards don't seem all that uncivil to me when compared to any of the other boards on CBR. (or really any other message board out there) Now if folks are slinging personal insults towards other posters or Dan Slott or whomever then yeah that's going overboard but other then that everything seems civil for the most part to me.

[Vworp Vworp]

It seems kind of impossible to have a civilized Spider-Man discussion because topics almost always derail into a writer-witch hunt. An example being the Ben Reilly thread, someone called out a writer because they felt that their favorite character was ruined, I had explained that plenty of other Marvel characters had "gone dark" and were redeemed "Well that isn't Ben so it doesn't apply here!" Okay, how about the fact that anyone suffering through any kind of torture is not going to come out unscathed smelling like perfume and roses, they're going to be traumatized and messed up, "well that can't happen in real life so your point is irrelevant!"

It just seems to me that no one can go without arguing unless the other person is echoing their distaste for a particular writer or particular Spider-Man event or series, and no amount of in-universe logic or proof is going to change their mind because "x reason(s)". I posted this because a lot of the threads I frequent spend a vast majority of the time arguing and dragging down writers that they don't like while telling everyone else that their reasons, and logic don't apply to them because "x reason(s)". It's just sort of discouraging to see promising conversation topics devolve into "so and so sucks" threads, when you cannot even really debate with some people because no matter how much evidence to the contrary or in-universe examples you provide, it is "irrelevant" or "x-reason(s)". Sorry for the rant.

But there are in-universe example and x-reasons on both sides of any argument, many of which are open to interpretation. In the debate about eeeeeevil Ben, you've supplied some reasons of your own why you think his behaviour is justified. And some people have disagreed for their equally valid reasons.

[xpyred]

I used to post here a lot before they deleted everyone's user names and we had to start over. I tried a bunch of times to have semi decent convos with people but the last straw for me was when i attacked Miles Morales and my thread was bombarded with people not even trying to discuss the topic and instead kept repeating themselves. I've generally lost interest in talking about the books anymore. And if i do post, most of the post go unnoticed or theyre ignored so people can keep arguing that characters are ruining or writers suck and need to be fired.

[Spiderfang]

I used to post here a lot before they deleted everyone's user names and we had to start over. I tried a bunch of times to have semi decent convos with people but the last straw for me was when i attacked Miles Morales and my thread was bombarded with people not even trying to discuss the topic and instead kept repeating themselves. I've generally lost interest in talking about the books anymore. And if i do post, most of the post go unnoticed or theyre ignored so people can keep arguing that characters are ruining or writers suck and need to be fired.

I'm sorry that happened to your topic(s), I have noticed a trend of people bringing up OMD/RYV in every other thread where Dan Slott is involved (which is the basis for this topic actually). I guess I'm just going to have to start ignoring some people, which I don't like resorting to because I like hearing from all perspectives but when it's always the same "I'm right because Slott is wrong blah blah blah" song and dance...it gets tiring and it looks to me like listening to a broken record.

[Mister Mets]

The Spidey boards don't seem all that uncivil to me when compared to any of the other boards on CBR. (or really any other message board out there) Now if folks are slinging personal insults towards other posters or Dan Slott or whomever then yeah that's going overboard but other then that everything seems civil for the most part to me.

This is a fair point. This is a more civil place than most corners of the internet, or places where people discuss things they feel passionately about. There will be disagreements about what adds to a conversation, what observation is overly personal, or whether individuals are suitably consistent, but that's always going to happen.

[Spiderfang]

This is a fair point. This is a more civil place than many other corners of the internet. There will be disagreements about what adds to a conversation, what observation is overly personal, or whether individuals are suitablyt consistent, but that's always going to happen.

Like I said before I am still fairly new here, you've been here since 2014 but I have already noticed that whenever the name Slott is involved, or rather the man himself behind the monitor the thread derails into another OMD/RYV/Slott is wrong because I'm right verbal war...it's almost always the usual suspect(s) and it's kind of excessive.

[Mister Mets]

Like I said before I am still fairly new here, you've been here since 2014 but I have already noticed that whenever the name Slott is involved, or rather the man himself behind the monitor the thread derails into another OMD/RYV/Slott is wrong because I'm right verbal war...it's almost always the usual suspect(s) and it's kind of excessive.

Spider-Man comics are a bit unique in that Dan Slott is closing in on his tenth year (The Swing Shift Free Comic Book Day special came out May 5 2007) as the main Spider-Man writer, and he had taken over after a controversial storyline that changed the status quo in a big way. There haven't been opportunities to debate the merits of multiple directions. Arguments about the direction of the book are often going to be a referendum on the guy who has been in charge this long in a way that wouldn't necessarily apply to another series.

However, I'm still not sure that it's that different from other places.

Political discussions will often have the same old debates about the same figures. Sports fans will argue the merits of a coach or general manager. Film fans will debate the merits of actors and directors who have had fans and detractors for years.

[Alan2099]

I think we are more civil here than in a lot of places, but at the same time, I think we could do better.

Maybe as a community we should step in when people start to stray and remind them with things like "Okay, we're not talking about that in this topic," or "please take your One-More-Day is the most horrible thing ever posts over to the One More day is the Most Horrible Thing Ever topic. This is the Swarm appreciation topic. That post really has nothing to do with Swarm."

[Pav]

I think we are more civil here than in a lot of places, but at the same time, I think we could do better.

Maybe as a community we should step in when people start to stray and remind them with things like "Okay, we're not talking about that in this topic," or "please take your One-More-Day is the most horrible thing ever posts over to the One More day is the Most Horrible Thing Ever topic. This is the Swarm appreciation topic. That post really has nothing to do with Swarm."

WE SHOULD TALK MORE ABOUT SWARM.

-Pav, whose eyes are wide...

[Alan2099]

WE SHOULD TALK MORE ABOUT SWARM.

We should.

Swarm would make a great villain for a Spider-man/Captain America team-up movie.

[CrimsonEchidna]

I used to post here a lot before they deleted everyone's user names and we had to start over. I tried a bunch of times to have semi decent convos with people but the last straw for me was when i attacked Miles Morales and my thread was bombarded with people not even trying to discuss the topic and instead kept repeating themselves. I've generally lost interest in talking about the books anymore. And if i do post, most of the post go unnoticed or theyre ignored so people can keep arguing that characters are ruining or writers suck and need to be fired.

So you created a thread with the intent to bash a character and was then surprise when it didn't go over well? Such a shocking development.