Black Panther vs Wolverine

[big_adventure]

I give this to T'Challa. The Vibranium armor and claws he wears + his own athleticism make this a match he can win.

Given how trivially DD pressure-points through armor or durability (dozens of feats of this), and how ludicrously faster than BP he is, no, sorry, BP simply doesn't have a shot here without advance prep.

BP is roughly around Cap level for speed. This has been borne out time and time again. AND it's Marvel's official and implicit presentation of the situation.

Matt is hilariously faster. With decades of feats to show it, like all of the aforementioned explicit BT feats, and recently casually disarming an extensively-prepped (with specific anti-Daredevil SHIELD tech) Captain America, and smiling all the way through it - taking the time to compliment the guy on his choice of accessories while he was at it, then shocking even Cap with the nonchalance with which he casually tossed himself off a skyscraper after their conversation.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

The feat with his shields he's referencing is pretty much:

"Black Swan: SHOOT THEM

T'Challa immediately throws up shield.

Soldiers then proceed to shoot at him."

It's not even remotely a speed feat.

[Doctor Know]

Given how trivially DD pressure-points through armor or durability (dozens of feats of this), and how ludicrously faster than BP he is, no, sorry, BP simply doesn't have a shot here without advance prep.

BP is roughly around Cap level for speed. This has been borne out time and time again. AND it's Marvel's official and implicit presentation of the situation.

Matt is hilariously faster. With decades of feats to show it, like all of the aforementioned explicit BT feats, and recently casually disarming an extensively-prepped (with specific anti-Daredevil SHIELD tech) Captain America, and smiling all the way through it - taking the time to compliment the guy on his choice of accessories while he was at it, then shocking even Cap with the nonchalance with which he casually tossed himself off a skyscraper after their conversation.

This is isn't a Daredevil vs T'Challa fight. Why are you talking about him?

[The Drunkard Kid]

The feat with his shields he's referencing is pretty much:

"Black Swan: SHOOT THEM

T'Challa immediately throws up shield.

Soldiers then proceed to shoot at him."

It's not even remotely a speed feat.

Man, Natalie Portman is kinda hardcore in that movie.

[MorphyVSFischer]

This is isn't a Daredevil vs T'Challa fight. Why are you talking about him?

Someone just claimed DD is slower the BP, read the posts.

[Pendaran]

He's so fast he's never needed to deflect a bullet. He's dodged point blank gun fire with no problem. DD can't beat current panther either.

So, basically you don't even have the one speed feat equivalent to that provided for Daredevil? Deflecting gunfire, with a stick, right back at the person who shot it, is certainly above moving out of the way of something. One involves having to use one's entire body to get out of the way of gunfire. The other is using a thin stick not just to deflect the actual gunfire in flight, but straight up send it back at the shooter. One of these things is not like the other, and so forth.

Especially when, as others have noted, as far as said dodging, this requires all of needing to be faster than the shooter's capacity to aim and be otherwise able to correct their fire for someone being in motion.

I can help. Aim Dodging is evading the aim, running and ducking behind cover faster than the enemy can track.

Or it's just generally moving/dodging so quickly the people trying to shoot you can't draw a proper bead. They're firing to where you were just a split second ago. It's how Batman and Nightwing and what have you truck in charging gunmen as they unload. Doesn't require ducking behind anything.

[Sharpandpointies]

Cripes, Post Crisis Nightwing has aim-dodged something like twenty dudes armed with Kalashnikovs, all firing at him as he charges directly at them.

While feverish.

Impressive? Amazingly so.

Still aim-dodging.

[Vanguard]

So, basically you don't even have the one speed feat equivalent to that provided for Daredevil? Deflecting gunfire, with a stick, right back at the person who shot it, is certainly above moving out of the way of something. One involves having to use one's entire body to get out of the way of gunfire. The other is using a thin stick not just to deflect the actual gunfire in flight, but straight up send it back at the shooter. One of these things is not like the other, and so forth.

Especially when, as others have noted, as far as said dodging, this requires all of needing to be faster than the shooter's capacity to aim and be otherwise able to correct their fire for someone being in motion.



Or it's just generally moving/dodging so quickly the people trying to shoot you can't draw a proper bead. They're firing to where you were just a split second ago. It's how Batman and Nightwing and what have you truck in charging gunmen as they unload. Doesn't require ducking behind anything.

If BP and DD fought today, DD would lose. BP has been given a power up. No one here is aware of this?

[Guy1]

Again, I request scans!

[StupidMoniker]

I think people are aware that there was an in story power up, but it is not at all clear exactly what the power up has done, or that it would allow him to beat Daredevil (or Wolverine, for that matter). I know that he has a feat of taking a fight to Namor which involved some glowy purple gloves, which says nothing about his speed or durability.

[Pendaran]

If BP and DD fought today, DD would lose. BP has been given a power up. No one here is aware of this?

Can you explain what this has to do with you saying Daredevil is not faster than Panther, then being asked to provide equivalent reaction time performances to even just the one provided for you? It seems like you're now dodging this question to try and have an entirely different argument.

You claim Panther and Daredevil are on par speed wise. I've provided a thing Daredevil has done speed wise. Can you provide something equivalent to it from Panther, or not? If not, how does what you are posting now actually answer the question that has been put to you?

If you cannot provide equivalent reaction time performances, what then supports your claim as far as their speed?

You said this:

I just wanna say that DD aint faster than Panther. That's ludicrous.

I asked you this:

Equivalent performance to hitting gunfire back at someone with a thin stick then?

You replied with this:

He's so fast he's never needed to deflect a bullet. He's dodged point blank gun fire with no problem. DD can't beat current panther either.

I replied with this, to note why that does not come off as anything equivalent:

So, basically you don't even have the one speed feat equivalent to that provided for Daredevil? Deflecting gunfire, with a stick, right back at the person who shot it, is certainly above moving out of the way of something. One involves having to use one's entire body to get out of the way of gunfire. The other is using a thin stick not just to deflect the actual gunfire in flight, but straight up send it back at the shooter. One of these things is not like the other, and so forth.

Especially when, as others have noted, as far as said dodging, this requires all of needing to be faster than the shooter's capacity to aim and be otherwise able to correct their fire for someone being in motion.



Or it's just generally moving/dodging so quickly the people trying to shoot you can't draw a proper bead. They're firing to where you were just a split second ago. It's how Batman and Nightwing and what have you truck in charging gunmen as they unload. Doesn't require ducking behind anything.

What does your reply have to do with anything I said there, at all? Are you then by not actually replying to the topic we have been discussing, conceding that you have nothing relevant to provide as an equivalent example?

If you're going to claim you were not otherwise replying to me, you quoted my post to reply to, full out, so that would make that one baffling.

So, again, you say Daredevil is not faster. Equivalent speed performances to even just the one example, or not?

[Vanguard]

I'm not used to debating the way that you guys debate here. As a matter of fact I disagree with it. But to answer your question I don't have an equivalent example at this point. But I stand by what I said. DD would lose to Panther in a fight. And that will be proven if they have a physical encounter in the near future.

By the way, those purple glowy things are energy gauntlets.

[Guy1]

I'm not used to debating the way that you guys debate here. As a matter of fact I disagree with it.

Deal with it. We go by canon, high end and consistent feats here. If you want to prove a character is as good as you say, provide scans and examples of the characters feats. Just saying you think he'd win is not a good way to debate here.

[Guy1]

Bullet.Timing. Daredevil is faster.

[Pendaran]

I'm not used to debating the way that you guys debate here. As a matter of fact I disagree with it. But to answer your question I don't have an equivalent example at this point. But I stand by what I said. DD would lose to Panther in a fight. And that will be proven if they have a physical encounter in the near future.

By the way, those purple glowy things are energy gauntlets.

So, by the basic standards of "can you show a guy you claim is as fast as another guy, doing things that are at least on par with the other guy's speed performances", Panther is slower than Daredevil then.

I'm not used to debating the way that you guys debate here. As a matter of fact I disagree with it.

Pretty sure no one's holding a gun to your head to force yourself through things. The internet is a mansion with many rooms, I much imagine there are all kinds of places that debate to your liking. There's nothing wrong with not liking how debate here is done, to be sure, but all places have to have at least some internal standard for it to avoid "the guy I like wins" for a zillion pages, and we're pretty upfront with ours.

DD would lose to Panther in a fight.

Welp, he's slower than Daredevil, so that's certainly not going to be based on speed. I also find talking about how characters are going to be, or have powers of, in the future as far post Secret Wars more than a wee might dubious since the company is being all "not a reboot, but lots of changes!" Unless you have some kind of advance read of comics many months from now...

If anything, how in the future Panther will be shown as will likely be determined by how they want to show the dude in his movie, because Marvel has been pretty fond of messing with things to try and bring the comics into some kind of closer alignment with the flicks at least in a shallow way when they can get away with it, and not like Panther currently stars in his own title to make him a bit more proof against messing with.