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  1. #106
    Mighty Member oldschool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panfoot View Post
    I really don't understand why Marvel is so insistent on making sure one of their most reviled and hated Spider-Man stories stays canon...I understand not wanting to always go with what people say they want, but is there ANYONE who likes this thing? At best I've seen people that are indifferent to it and at worst people who treat it as one of the worst comics ever.

    I have always felt that it was a shame the OMD was so poorly done; for such an important story---and I believe Slott when he says Marvel had been trying to undo the marriage almost since it occurred---this was such a lousy mess of a story and I just feel such an important turning point for the character deserved better. And if we had a better story that dissolved the marriage, would that have made the decision more palatable to the marriage-lovers? Maybe not but just maybe a little......

  2. #107
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panfoot View Post
    I really don't understand why Marvel is so insistent on making sure one of their most reviled and hated Spider-Man stories stays canon...I understand not wanting to always go with what people say they want, but is there ANYONE who likes this thing? At best I've seen people that are indifferent to it and at worst people who treat it as one of the worst comics ever.
    It's not about One More Day, but what it pulled off for Marvel.

    Their feeling is that the advantages to keeping Peter Parker single are preferable to the alternative.
    http://community.comicbookresources....ghlight=single
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  3. #108
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    I think there could be a run or a storyline that resolves OMD. Or one that gives Spidey a win over Mephisto. But the end result of that story would still NOT be the reinstatement of the marriage. That's never happening for many, many, many ironclad, set-in-stone reasons.

  4. #109

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    Now that Miles is in 616 what's the point in trying to keep Peter young and single?

    Also giving how Mary Jane is in pretty much every form of Spider-Man media what's the point in keeping them separated? She's clearly Peter's one true love so why even bother with creating new love interest when there relationship can't go anywhere?
    You might as well just put them in a permanent committed relationship if you can't do anything else.

  5. #110
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    If it's possible we can have a story where Peter gains some kind of victory over Mephisto, but leave the consequences of OMD intact, that would be enough for some fans. Emotional closure is a necessity when moving ahead in all walks of life. It should be the same for Peter Parker in his.

  6. #111
    Mighty Member oldschool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Slott View Post
    I think there could be a run or a storyline that resolves OMD. Or one that gives Spidey a win over Mephisto. But the end result of that story would still NOT be the reinstatement of the marriage. That's never happening for many, many, many ironclad, set-in-stone reasons.
    My feeling is that it is probably best to treat Mephisto in the Spidey-verse the same way Gwen's kids or MJ's still-born baby are treated. Even a storyline involving Mephisto that doesn't reference OMD is going to elicit a strong negative response and he's not the kind of character that ever has to appear in a Spidey title again so I am not sure I see the upside.

  7. #112
    Astonishing Member TomSlick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Slott View Post
    I think there could be a run or a storyline that resolves OMD. Or one that gives Spidey a win over Mephisto. But the end result of that story would still NOT be the reinstatement of the marriage. That's never happening for many, many, many ironclad, set-in-stone reasons.
    Any word on whether Marvel is going to collect your work in omnibus collection? A lot of us on the collections thread are curious. Thanks.

  8. #113
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    I think its just for the best to not even mention OMD. Every time they do is just brings up bad feelings for everybody involved. Like OMIT was such a huge waste of Paolo Rivera. It was like when the husband brings up a really nasty argument with the wife from three years ago, because he swears he was right. Like, nobody wins. Almost nobody likes this story. The main writer(JMS) didnt even want his name on that shit, and he signed off on Sins Past. Its the most universally reviled story in the character's history, which is saying a lot if you know the history of this character's many creative peaks and valleys. It has created a clear division in the character's history and fanbase in the way no other major story of any other major superhero character from Marvel or DC I could care to mention, outside like giant crossover/resets like COIE or whatever.

    Just, don't talk about it, dont mention it, dont retcon it or lampshade it or anything. Just pretend it never happened and keep telling Spider-Man stories.

  9. #114
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    Spiderman should just be reivented and reborn into a new version of the same story. I feel Peter and MJ being married is the end of Peter Parkers stories and adventures, and its like a final crisis thing. If Petet and MJ lived happily ever after, its only because the marvel universe is completely dead and thete the only ones left in existence spared of the events thar lead to the big heroes dying off, the xmen, the defenders, the ff and probably the cosmic heroes along with all their villains and spidermans villains. Kinda like old man logan meets ryv, and peter and mj live on in a completely normal world with normal people but a certain time as a family life raising their children, the world is going to end so spiderman has to find a way to save their kids and send them to another demension while him and mjnstay back. So this is pretty much how i see a story about a marriage going down, its pure spiderman its both uplifting and tragic.

  10. #115
    Mighty Member Vworp Vworp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViewtifulJC View Post
    Just, don't talk about it, dont mention it, dont retcon it or lampshade it or anything. Just pretend it never happened and keep telling Spider-Man stories.
    I think the main reason we're still talking (and arguing) about OMD all these years later... and likely will continue to for many years to come... is because it's still happening. Pete is still living a fake life in an alternate reality created by a Marvel villain. For as long as the OMD'verse remains, there can never be any kind of closure. And it's not like Marvel even have tried to sweep it all under the carpet and move on themselves. Recent('ish) issues of Spidey/Deadpool have explicitly shown Mephisto gloating about what he did (and continues to do) to Peter.

    If Pete and Mary Jane had divorced 10 years ago, it would have sucked. But it would have given us closure. I suspect I still would have dropped the book at the time - but if it had been handled well and MJ as a character had been treated respectfully in the subsequent years, I might well have jumped back on board (Sure, I'd have gone again if the Felicia and/or Ben debacles had still happened, but that's not the point). Ultimately, a divorced Pete is still the guy I was reading about up until 2007. It would have just been another chapter in that guy's story.

    Instead though, he got replaced by a guy I didn't know and who himself doesn't know that he's living a lie. Peter is basically Marty McFly, trapped in Biff's alternate '85. He's got a butterfly on his boot and works for THE DALEE BOOGAL. He's wearing drab clothes and doesn't go out after curfew. There's a lot of these. But that's the thing... OMD remains a loose thread, an unresolved schism between Pete's real life and the alternate life he's currently living. It was never just one story... cos it's happening right now.
    Last edited by Vworp Vworp; 03-12-2017 at 08:22 AM.

  11. #116
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    Thats another thing, unlike so many(and surely next week's story) that promised to CHANGE SPIDER-MAN FOREVER OMGGGG, OMD actually did. There's before OMD and there's after OMD. It actually did change everything forever. Its not like you read some regular bad Spider-Man story like Maximum Carnage or that Alpha thing Slott did or those Marv Wolfman ASM stories he did before Roger Stern stepped in. You could read those and then forget them cuz they had no real effect on the status quo or the character's history.

    People are always gonna reference OMD for as long as the comics exists. Well after Slott's tenure is over, well after we meet the New Boss, same as the Old Boss.

  12. #117
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Now that Miles is in 616 what's the point in trying to keep Peter young and single?
    That's like saying "we have generic store brand diet cola, why do we need regular pepsi anymore?"

  13. #118
    Spectacular Member FF-Fighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Slott View Post
    I think there could be a run or a storyline that resolves OMD. Or one that gives Spidey a win over Mephisto. But the end result of that story would still NOT be the reinstatement of the marriage. That's never happening for many, many, many ironclad, set-in-stone reasons.
    Even if they never got back together, would you be up for a sort of "closure" story? (I understand that could have been RYV, but I mean in the mainstream universe). I think the thing that bothers most people is how the story just left them empty handed and cheated out of years of other stories. I just want to know some things that were left unsaid, like what MJ truly told Mephisto. Does she actually remember the whole marriage? Would you know?

  14. #119
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Slott View Post
    I know. This is over a quarter century of experience through multiple Marvel administrations.
    The marriage of the character in the core continuity (from 1987), will never be reinstated.


    With absolute certainty. This is something even above an EIC at this point. Using the example of "well some day a new EIC might change it on a whim" argument is inapplicable. It feels right from a fan perspective, but it has no bearing on the reality of the situation. There are a lot of "fan beliefs" that work that way. For example, the "Now that Disney owns Marvel, things will change the way *I* think they should" recurring fan fantasies-- like who will be fired for saying what online or what properties will be allowed to cross-over with which things.

    There are things fans really want to believe because they feel right or possible-- but for anyone on the inside, we look at that and go "they just don't get it".

    There is no editorial change or restructuring or new blood that is going to change this.


    We're heading into a decade of this. I know you run a message board that has dedicated great swaths of time over the past 10 years on this subject-- and it's something you personally would like to see happen, but wouldn't you rather face the reality of a situation and spend that time talking about the possible?


    1. That's a subjective opinion.
    and
    2. I'm not saying MJ couldn't walk back into the book tomorrow. I'm not saying she couldn't be the main love interest. I'm not saying she couldn't be in 99% percent of every story from now til doomsday. I'm saying one thing and one thing only: the marriage will never be reinstated. And I can say that with absolute certainty.


    Between the two of us, who do you think has talked with Joe Kelly and the office about that sequence? Who do you think has better optics on that?
    Between the two of us, who wrote this sequence that came out around the same time-frame? ;-)
    Attachment 46550
    And out of the two of us, who was able to get a mini-series through that's put an alternate universe version of the marriage back into play? (And let me tell you, politically, that was a risky thing to pitch and push for-- so, as a marriage fan, you're welcome).


    Okay, here's the thing-- it doesn't even matter what *I*, the guy who's been writing this book for 9 years feels. If I felt strongly about the marriage and banged on the doors of Marvel everyday saying I felt the marriage should be reinstated-- it wouldn't change a thing. This isn't just about my feelings or the Spider-Editor's feelings or the EIC's feelings. It's about maintaining the core book and its place in the Spider-Man franchise. There are factors involved that have nothing to do with any of those feelings. The marriage is never being reinstated.


    The difference is--
    A hardcore fan can make that analogy and think "A third rail/controversial storyline" vs "a third rail/controversial storyline", apples to apples, right?
    And someone in the industry who understands how this all works and why would know that's not even apples to oranges, that's apples to... xylophones.

    You're comparing a controversial storyline to a profound change that affected the core continuity of the brand/franchise in a way that could not be easily fixed. A change that every administration since (including the administration that put it into motion) tried to get undone. No one at Marvel was flagging me down saying, "Dear God, don't use the Jackal in a story." Some were like, "You're going to try a clone story?! Good luck!" (Like a magician telling another, "You're going try the trick that killed Houdini? Good luck!"). And some (mainly marketing) were all, "Make sure you call it something with 'Clone' in the title, there's an audience for that."

    "Ah!" you may say, "But there could be an audience for the marriage reinstatement!"
    Yes. And that's why RENEW YOUR VOWS went to full series. (And, again, you're welcome.)
    But there was never a world where-- after close to 25 years of trying to undo the marriage in the core continuity title that they were ever undoing that.
    Could there be a story where Spidey gets a "win" over Mephisto? You bet. Will that "win" result in the marriage being reinstated? Never.

    Final thought: Something to keep in mind...
    The fantasy scenario where someone "comes to power" who wants to reinstate the marriage, while a false one for many reasons, with every passing year is even less realistic as a fantasy. Marvel editorial is in lockstep on this (which is besides the point, but bear with me for a sec). Every 18 year old who started reading Spider-Man at the age of 8 has grown up with a post-OMD Spider-Man. For them, the marriage was undone, and they're cool with that. Those post-Marriage stories are the ones they grew up reading. Those are the Marvel college interns cycling in now. Those are the assistant editors of the future, who will one day become the editors of the future, and the editor in chiefs in the future. And every year that gets set further into stone. There is no 30 year old or 40 year old who's going to magically pop into Marvel editorial from the side. And year after year, the people who've grown up who feel as strongly as you do about the 1987 marriage status quo are further and further away from Marvel editorial positions. With that in mind-- IT DOESN'T MATTER. Because even the ones in those positions aren't really the ones who can or are going to change it.
    There is no lottery ticket win big enough that is getting someone into a magic position of power that's going to change this. There's no zillionaire who's a big reinstate-the-marriage fan who can rest this property away from Disney/Marvel Entertainment. It's never, ever, ever happening.
    I think one part of the confusion is that fans won't have much insider knowledge, so they might think there are overly simplistic answers, and be unaware of the reasons why something wouldn't happen.

    What would be the various checks against an EIC who feels passionately that One More Day should be restored, and believes that this will help Marvel's bottom line/ be a boon for storytellers? It could be an EIC who hadn't previously had much to do with Spider-Man as line editor for another Marvel group.

    To the extent that you can tell us, what specific institutional opposition would he/ she face? Who would be in a position to veto the decision?
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  15. #120
    Astonishing Member Tuck's Avatar
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    Continuity has been a millstone around the industry's neck for a long time.

    RYV should sate people who want to read about the marriage.

    And Marvel should just make Peter 19 and put him back in college. That's the sweet spot for the character anyway.

    But God forbid the dork who wore a suit to school everyday and had no friends isn't the same guy randomly quoting 21st century pop lyrics.
    Last edited by Tuck; 03-12-2017 at 10:55 AM.

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