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  1. #226
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Mary Jane didn't appear until much later in the Spider titles and wasn't even the main romantic interest for most of that time. She cannot participate in most of Spider-mans' adventures and making her do so changes the entire premises of the book.
    Mary Jane was first referenced, and has been a part of the Spider-Man franchise, since Amazing Spider-Man Vol. 1 #15. Peter (and the readers) didn't officially meet her until ASM (Vol. 1) #42, but a character doesn't have to actually appear to leave an impact (or I guess they could appear with their face obscured). Saying she "didn't appear until much later" is incorrect. It was this anticipation to Peter meeting her that left a huge impact on readers.

    To put this in perspective, the Green Goblin first showed up in Amazing Spider-Man (Vo. 1) #14. Norman Osborn made his unnamed debut in ASM (Vol. 1) #23. He was named in ASM (Vol. 1 #37). And he was unmasked as the Green Goblin in ASM (Vol. 1) #39.

    The first mention of MJ to Peter meeting her took longer than it took for the Green Goblin to be unmasked.

  2. #227
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    I think about all it would take to reverse it is really a superstar writer with some clout.

    Say someone like Kevin Smith or Joss Whedon comes aboard to pen ASM to much fanfare and months of hype by Marvel. They have a lot riding on this, since while ASM has performed well for Marvel, like all the rest of their line it still comes in second to DC Rebirth.

    So they get the big name, but the star writer says "I want to undo OMD. I want to reunite Peter and MJ". I'd say chances are, the prospect of having this big name attracting headlines on the book would trump all these claims about "branding", "how the character works best" etc. I suspect they would go with the short term gains, as they often do with the comics line, and fold like a lawn chair on their OMD stance.

    Oddly enough, I've heard it told that it was Kevin Smith who was to write ASM after JMS, but heard they were formulating OMD at the time, and didn't want any part of it.
    Last edited by Metamorphosis; 03-15-2017 at 12:48 AM.

  3. #228
    Mighty Member Zeitgeist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    The Day OMD was created was the day that showed that Spider-man wasn't the morally centered hero that Marvel made him out to be. Even Johnny Blaze would tell Peter that he's being dumb in this. I hope that somehow Johnny learns of the deal and tries to fix things, but makes things worse for Peter. Note I stated Johnny Blaze given his history with Mephisto better and that the Silver Surfer already had a moment like that in this series.

    Too many people make a histrionic fuss about him making a deal with "the devil" and ignore the lengths of self-sacrifice Peter made to save a life, which is still pretty moral despite who he had to deal with - and I really don't care about devils like some campy entity in red pajamas is somehow the worst thing ever, so whatever about the nebulous bone to pick about "morals" on that front. People try and paint him saving Aunt May's life as "selfish", but how is it any less selfish than keeping a marriage of all things? Aunt May got to experience love again thanks to Peter's actions, and it's not like MJ disappeared. People just care about their fave Spidey pin-up girl and bend the events of the story around. Fan logic at it's best.
    Last edited by Zeitgeist; 03-15-2017 at 01:42 AM.
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  4. #229

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    How about the fact that Peter ignores what Aunt May wants. A few issues earlier May told Peter that she was ready to die. Peter never seems to give any thought about Aunt May's quality of life. In part 1 of OMD the doctor said that they weren't picking up brain wave activity meaning for all intents and purposes Aunt May was brain dead.
    Also Peter has no reason whatsoever to believe Mephisto. Plus part of the deal involved Mephisto wiping Peter's memory of even remembering the deal so Peter could have made the deal only to have Mephisto then screw him over and Peter wouldn't even remember it.

    It's just a stupid stupid plot.

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I think about all it would take to reverse it is really a superstar writer with some clout.
    No. That's probably the least likely scenario of all.

    Returning the marriage for the sake of scoring that immediate hit of attention but not considering the aftermath and long term repercussions is what got Marvel into the whole mess to begin with. They won't do it a second time.

  6. #231
    Moderator oldschool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    No. That's probably the least likely scenario of all.

    Returning the marriage for the sake of scoring that immediate hit of attention but not considering the aftermath and long term repercussions is what got Marvel into the whole mess to begin with. They won't do it a second time.
    Agreed. They are not going to cave to a rock star writer who, maybe, will be on the title for 6 or 12 issues when they need to consider the years and decades of stories in front of them.
    I miss Kevin Nichols. Not as much as bacon, but still...

  7. #232
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldschool View Post
    Agreed. They are not going to cave to a rock star writer who, maybe, will be on the title for 6 or 12 issues when they need to consider the years and decades of stories in front of them.
    yeah, why not just give them a self contained alt mini series instead?
    Last edited by boots; 03-30-2017 at 12:35 AM.
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  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    No. That's probably the least likely scenario of all.

    Returning the marriage for the sake of scoring that immediate hit of attention but not considering the aftermath and long term repercussions is what got Marvel into the whole mess to begin with. They won't do it a second time.
    It's plenty likely, as anything else is in serialized fiction--and it would be spun as "we were planning on reuniting them all along, we were just waiting on the right story by the right writer" to save face.

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    It's plenty likely, as anything else is in serialized fiction--and it would be spun as "we were planning on reuniting them all along, we were just waiting on the right story by the right writer" to save face.
    This will not happen. It is the polar opposite of "likely."

    If you think anything along these lines will happen, you're living in a complete dream world.

    As oldschool rightly pointed out, Marvel is not going to let a rock star waltz in for an arc, undo a status quo that they worked hard to achieve and been diligent about maintaining, and then be left to deal with a messy, unwanted aftermath. It's not worth it on any level. They can get the same big name writer to do an arc within the main continuity and still get the same sales results without the ungodly hassle of trying to undoing the marriage again.

    And as for Marvel feeling motivated a story along these lines in order to "save face", please. If you think that Marvel will ever apologize for OMD in any way, shape or form - much less do so by ok-ing a story that undoes it, you're dead wrong.

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I think about all it would take to reverse it is really a superstar writer with some clout.
    There is no amount of writer-clout in the world that could make this happen. Zero.
    J.K. Rowling could show up tomorrow and ask this.
    Wouldn't happen.
    It is not a question of clout.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Oddly enough, I've heard it told that it was Kevin Smith who was to write ASM after JMS, but heard they were formulating OMD at the time, and didn't want any part of it.
    You heard wrong. Never happened. With his outside-of-comics commitments it took Marvel 3 years to get all of SPIDER-MAN/BLACK CAT: THE EVIL THAT MEN DO out of Kevin Smith. To date, DAREDEVIL/BULLSEYE: THE TARGET was started in 2002 and still hasn't been finished. Marvel had hired Steve Wacker away from DC (where he edited the weekly comic, 52) specifically to edit a 3X a month AMAZING SPIDER-MAN run. This was planned before a writing team had been chosen and any writer had been approached to pick up the writing baton after JMS had wrapped up his run. None of what you heard syncs up at all with the reality of what was going on behind the scenes. Sorry. Chalk it up to an urban myth or internet gossip.

  11. #236
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    The biggest way I could see OMD being undone were if Marvel were about to do a full scale continuity reboot, and felt it was time to give Spider-Man that ending before the reboot.

    So, you know, the odds are against it since Marvel isn't looking to do a reboot.

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    This will not happen. It is the polar opposite of "likely."

    If you think anything along these lines will happen, you're living in a complete dream world.

    As oldschool rightly pointed out, Marvel is not going to let a rock star waltz in for an arc, undo a status quo that they worked hard to achieve and been diligent about maintaining, and then be left to deal with a messy, unwanted aftermath. It's not worth it on any level. They can get the same big name writer to do an arc within the main continuity and still get the same sales results without the ungodly hassle of trying to undoing the marriage again.

    And as for Marvel feeling motivated a story along these lines in order to "save face", please. If you think that Marvel will ever apologize for OMD in any way, shape or form - much less do so by ok-ing a story that undoes it, you're dead wrong.
    They let Grant Morrison "waltz" in to overhaul the X-Men, similar to Whedon "waltz"-ing for his X-Men take.

    They let Mark Millar "waltz" in and unmask Peter Parker, which led to about a year's worth or more of storylines before it was unmade (messily, by OMD / OMIT the latter of which took years to fully explain how the nuts & bolts of the identity reveal was reversed)

    And was it really an "ungodly hassle" to reverse course on the Peter / MJ marriage? It was done basically over a padded 4-issue arc, and then they just launched into a new continuity.

    You may be correct though in the fact that they don't care to save face on the story, but as someone above mentioned, it is a "self-inflicted wound" of a story Marvel will have to carry that will continue to hang over the franchise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Slott View Post
    You heard wrong. Never happened. With his outside-of-comics commitments it took Marvel 3 years to get all of SPIDER-MAN/BLACK CAT: THE EVIL THAT MEN DO out of Kevin Smith. To date, DAREDEVIL/BULLSEYE: THE TARGET was started in 2002 and still hasn't been finished. Marvel had hired Steve Wacker away from DC (where he edited the weekly comic, 52) specifically to edit a 3X a month AMAZING SPIDER-MAN run. This was planned before a writing team had been chosen and any writer had been approached to pick up the writing baton after JMS had wrapped up his run. None of what you heard syncs up at all with the reality of what was going on behind the scenes. Sorry. Chalk it up to an urban myth or internet gossip.
    This is what I was thinking of, which actually predated OMD by quite awhile. I'll walk it back, though perhaps only in Smith's mind he aimed to also write ASM as well as The Evil That Men Do:

    Newsarama has learned writer Kevin Smith - arguably the industry's current most widely recognized and popular creator - will also agree to a multi-year exclusive contract with Marvel, with both writers likely signing for two years. Newsarama caught up with both creators to ask about the whys and whatnots of their deals.

    "Joe [Quesada] asked," Smith told Newsarama quite simply, asked to explain why he's agreed to his contract. "It's hard to say no to Joe. And after having been more-or-less exclusive with DC for the last two years, it felt right to give Marvel the same treatment."

    ...

    Once a newly-exclusive creators, Smith, Straczynski and Marvel have big plans, including Smith taking over the regular writing chores of Amazing Spider-Man, possibly in late 2002 or early 2003 [though Smith said, "If they're smart, they won't hand the book over until they've got a bunch of scripts from me"], and perhaps with artist Terry Dodson attached.

    Smith, who said as far as he knows the upcoming Black Cat ongoing series will launch as scheduled [following the completion of the Spider-Man/Black Cat mini-series], also said he plans to write both Amazing Spider-Man and Black Cat concurrently, and he's hoping to get the same creative partner on both series as well...

    "I'm going to try to convince Terry [Dodson] to do both," he said. "Wish me luck."

    Asked to describe how he'll approach writing Spider-Man on a regular basis, Smith said, "Very carefully".

    "This isn't Daredevil or Green Arrow, in terms of those were characters that weren't pulling in the readers anymore, so I had a lot of leeway. This is Spider-Man, which sells well regardless, though particularly in this, the 'Year of Spider-Man'. I'll be minding my P's and Q's, so as not to ruffle fan feathers.
    http://www.viewaskew.com/news/apr02/2.html

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    except i don't think the argument has ever been "you can't tell good stories with a marriage", as that is clearly untrue. it's just that the unmarried status quo is a more flexible and open ended base to work from.

    and it's somewhat about the type of stories rather than the quality
    Ok, that makes sense. Doesn't really explain why any writer would have to pitch a case so fervently to get a married story just to happen in the first place. Seems like telling one in a limited series and alternative reality would be easy to get greenlit, for that very reason.

    Dunno. If I had to guess it would be that Marvel didn't want to stir the OMD pot.
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  14. #239
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    spoilers:
    Little in-joke to the Spider-Marraige's longevity
    end of spoilers in today's Spider-Man#14

    spoilers:
    In an alternate reality, Gwen and Miles have been married twenty years
    end of spoilers

  15. #240
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    man when is that crossover ending? it is one of the most disjointed plots I have come across with stuff just happening and spidergwen always beating up miles dad alternate dimension version or maybe not and her future fathr in law in one but he comes back for more for reasons I can't begin to fathom.

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