Thread Drift: Will One More Day ever be reversed?

[Prof. Warren]

I'm sure the creators intent was more along the lines of "Let's tell some stories for a couple of years before superheroes lose popularity and he's forgotten."

Yeah, no one at Marvel at the time would've imagined comics would last so long. They would've stretched out Peter's time in HS school a little longer otherwise. They definitely didn't rush to get him out of college!

[Dan Slott]

I'm sure that the creators original intent was for the character to grow and evolve since Peter was only in high school for the first 28 issues.

Stan is on record as saying if he knew how long the series was going to run, he would've left Peter in high school a lot longer.

[Prof. Warren]

All this talk of branding seems rather facile when the brand is whatever Marvel says it is at any time.

Sam Wilson is Captain America? That's the brand.

X-23 is Wolverine? That's the brand.

Riri Williams is Iron Man / Iron Heart? That's the brand.

So the whole branding thing sounds like a good company line, but it's just another in a long line of artificial restrictions certain people want to place on the franchise. It's really meaningless, especially when the Marvel Comics corner of the world is more often than not its own sandbox.

Those are stories. Just as Superior Spider-Man was.

Having Sam Wilson take on the mantle of Captain America is a storyline that can have a planned end.

As is X-23 taking Logan's place for a time.

As is Riri being mentored by AI Tony while his body recuperates.

Those are all storylines. They aren't changes to the core of the character.

[Frontier]

Yeah, no one at Marvel at the time would've imagined comics would last so long. They would've stretched out Peter's time in HS school a little longer otherwise. They definitely didn't rush to get him out of college!

Stan is on record as saying if he knew how long the series was going to run, he would've left Peter in high school a lot longer.

And thank goodness they didn't .

[Spider-Man Crawl Space]

Believe all you want.
It AIN'T happening.
I've told people this for 9 years.
Me pitching RYV and getting permission from the Powers That Be to do it-- and it selling well enough to merit an ongoing-- is as good as you're going to get (so please keep the sales for Gerry & Ryan's book up, up, UP!).
Every single editorial team since the marriage worked hard to undo it.
You will not see the marriage restored in the core continuity ever.
It's far more likely that you'd see a line-wide reboot that reset Spider-Man to high school years (and on model with the creators' original intent) then the marriage being restored. And THAT is never going to happen either.
Again, believe all you want. Put MJ and her wedding dress or showing off her wedding ring in EVERY message board avatar in the world. Still never happening. Ever. Ever. Ever.
I'm sure I'll be here next year telling you the same thing.

With all due respect, you don't know. Sure, you're in the bullpen now but you can't predict what will happen in 10 or more years. The current administration will leave their posts someday and an editor in chief may want Peter and Mary Jane back together. It also just feels wrong for the writer of the book to shoot down fan theories and thoughts like this on a board in such a matter of fact way about the future.
The book is not better without Mary Jane. She was an integral part of the book for 20 years of the marriage, and a well loved supporting cast member before that. Now we're lucky to get her in once or twice a volume.
I think many fans would be happy to just have the deal with Mephisto be undone. It doesn't feel right for a character to make a deal with the devil and it still be in place. There have been hints in Spidey/ Deadpool about Mephisto and the marriage, and I hope they fix this flaw.

Dan, you've said before that the marriage feels like a "been there, done that story." But you just came off a third Clone Saga. What's the difference?

BD
www.spidermancrawlspace.com

[boots]

hello to all the newbies! wow.

there are certain things that you can say with certainty won't happen (in our lifetimes). mickey mouse won't return to the racist toons he starred in back in the b & w days. you can bet there's a big no no there. warhammer 40k setting is stuck at a stroke to midnight and will never move past that point. is it impossible that we'll see 616 peter marry again? no. is it improbable? extremely.

though who knows, maybe i'm drinking the kool aid.

as for original creator's intent, with all due respect to the man lee, i don't see how that factors in for either side. it's a whole different ball game now. this is entertainment not tradition.

[Spiderfang]

With all due respect, you don't know. Sure, you're in the bullpen now but you can't predict what will happen in 10 or more years. The current administration will leave their posts someday and an editor in chief may want Peter and Mary Jane back together. It also just feels wrong for the writer of the book to shoot down fan theories and thoughts like this on a board in such a matter of fact way about the future.
The book is not better without Mary Jane. She was an integral part of the book for 20 years of the marriage, and a well loved supporting cast member before that. Now we're lucky to get her in once or twice a volume.
I think many fans would be happy to just have the deal with Mephisto be undone. It doesn't feel right for a character to make a deal with the devil and it still be in place. There have been hints in Spidey/ Deadpool about Mephisto and the marriage, and I hope they fix this flaw.

Dan, you've said before that the marriage feels like a "been there, done that story." But you just came off a third Clone Saga. What's the difference?

BD
www.spidermancrawlspace.com

I agree with your sentiment for the most part, but I also get where Dan is coming from by being in the biz and having inside knowledge of how the company and comic book business works. I also assume that there's a marketing reason behind the stance as well.

[Miles To Go]

ha. how did i miss that one? so it can be done.

Ultimate Marvel hung in there, and Spider-Girl is a fine example too...despite not always being a hot seller, it had such a sturdy fanbase that they swayed Marvel into keeping it around for a decade. I understand it only ended to try and give another 616 character a promotional push.

It's Spider-Girl's 20th anniversary next year is'nt it? I wonder if they have any special plans for MC2? Maybe lure Tom DeFalco back from Archie to do another mini-series? I'd sooner rather see Mayday crossover with the RYV Spider-Family so she can meet her alternate world sister.

[boots]

Ultimate Marvel hung in there, and Spider-Girl is a fine example too...despite not always being a hot seller, it had such a sturdy fanbase that they swayed Marvel into keeping it around for a decade. I understand it only ended to try and give another 616 character a promotional push.

It's Spider-Girl's 20th anniversary next year is'nt it? I wonder if they have any special plans for MC2? Maybe lure Tom DeFalco back from Archie to do another mini-series?

might be worth giving a new writer a go

[Miles To Go]

might be worth giving a new writer a go

Well, we did have Dan Slott write her during Spider-Verse, and Mike Costa for her few appearances in Web Warriors

[oldschool]

Personal preference about the marriage aside, I think it is fair to say "never say never" here. With all due respect to Dan Slott----and he clearly knows a lot more about the inner workings of Marvel than we all do---it is impossible to predict what future Head Honchos at Marvel will decide to do with any of their characters. I read all of his comments and his reasoning is sound and, if I had to bet, Marvel won't be reinstating the marriage anytime soon (these are all the same reasons why I thought it was a good idea to do away with it---despite the ham-fisted way it was executed) but it still is possible, however unlikely, that someone down the road changes their mind and finds a plausible reason to do it.

Again, I read Dan's answers ("no, never, never ever, a million times no, you're not listening----ain't ever happening") but, y'know, as a pretty big fan of music as well as comics both the Eagles and the Police swore up and down there would never be a reunion tour----members of both bands spoke at length about how no one needs the money and we all hate each other and we've moved on to other things and being on a long tour is a drag so why do it? So.....ya just never know.....

[Prof. Warren]

With all due respect, you don't know. Sure, you're in the bullpen now but you can't predict what will happen in 10 or more years. The current administration will leave their posts someday and an editor in chief may want Peter and Mary Jane back together. It also just feels wrong for the writer of the book to shoot down fan theories and thoughts like this on a board in such a matter of fact way about the future.
The book is not better without Mary Jane. She was an integral part of the book for 20 years of the marriage, and a well loved supporting cast member before that. Now we're lucky to get her in once or twice a volume.
I think many fans would be happy to just have the deal with Mephisto be undone. It doesn't feel right for a character to make a deal with the devil and it still be in place. There have been hints in Spidey/ Deadpool about Mephisto and the marriage, and I hope they fix this flaw.

Dan, you've said before that the marriage feels like a "been there, done that story." But you just came off a third Clone Saga. What's the difference?

BD
www.spidermancrawlspace.com

The difference is between a storyline and a permanent fixture of Peter's status quo.

Whether you thought another clone story was a good idea or not, the story was told and now it's done and now we're onto another story.

Were the marriage to be re-introduced, that influences every single story going forward, forever and ever unless drastic means are taken (again) to undo it. You can't get around it. It's a limitating factor in that it locks certain things in stone for Peter.

You say that "The book is not better without Mary Jane" and "It doesn't feel right for a character to make a deal with the devil and it still be in place" and that's your right to feel that way as a fan but for most readers, MJ's presence is not integral to their enjoyment of the book and the OMD deal is easily shrugged off by this point. We are, after all, almost ten years out from it. If it was an impediment to most readers - or even to a sizable amount of readers - the effects of that would be visible by now.

If this were 2008 or '09 and you were predicting that ASM's sales would collapse because of OMD, we'd just have to say "time will tell." Well, by now time has told. It wasn't an issue. At least not to enough readers to make any kind of difference. This is not even an arguable point anymore.

And as for this: "It also just feels wrong for the writer of the book to shoot down fan theories and thoughts like this on a board in such a matter of fact way about the future."

So you mean it's wrong not to coddle fans who want to insist on believing in something that is never going to happen? You mean it's wrong to explain, in plain, adult terms, why the marriage isn't coming back? Better to have the facts and deal with them then live in a delusional bubble, I say.

Of course, some will choose to keep on living in that bubble with "You never know!" and "Anything could happen!". That's fine. As I said earlier, when the marriage is still gone next year and the year after and the year after that and so on, you can't say that no one ever told you to quit waiting for it to return.

[Mister Mets]

Three posts on whether the poster Dan Slott is the writer Dan Slott were deleted. His identity has been confirmed numerous times.

[Dan Slott]

With all due respect, you don't know.

I know. This is over a quarter century of experience through multiple Marvel administrations.
The marriage of the character in the core continuity (from 1987), will never be reinstated.

Sure, you're in the bullpen now but you can't predict what will happen in 10 or more years.

With absolute certainty. This is something even above an EIC at this point. Using the example of "well some day a new EIC might change it on a whim" argument is inapplicable. It feels right from a fan perspective, but it has no bearing on the reality of the situation. There are a lot of "fan beliefs" that work that way. For example, the "Now that Disney owns Marvel, things will change the way *I* think they should" recurring fan fantasies-- like who will be fired for saying what online or what properties will be allowed to cross-over with which things.

There are things fans really want to believe because they feel right or possible-- but for anyone on the inside, we look at that and go "they just don't get it".

The current administration will leave their posts someday and an editor in chief may want Peter and Mary Jane back together.

There is no editorial change or restructuring or new blood that is going to change this.

It also just feels wrong for the writer of the book to shoot down fan theories and thoughts like this on a board in such a matter of fact way about the future.

We're heading into a decade of this. I know you run a message board that has dedicated great swaths of time over the past 10 years on this subject-- and it's something you personally would like to see happen, but wouldn't you rather face the reality of a situation and spend that time talking about the possible?

The book is not better without Mary Jane.

1. That's a subjective opinion.
and
2. I'm not saying MJ couldn't walk back into the book tomorrow. I'm not saying she couldn't be the main love interest. I'm not saying she couldn't be in 99% percent of every story from now til doomsday. I'm saying one thing and one thing only: the marriage will never be reinstated. And I can say that with absolute certainty.

There have been hints in Spidey/ Deadpool about Mephisto and the marriage, and I hope they fix this flaw.

Between the two of us, who do you think has talked with Joe Kelly and the office about that sequence? Who do you think has better optics on that?
Between the two of us, who wrote this sequence that came out around the same time-frame? ;-)
Attachment 46550
And out of the two of us, who was able to get a mini-series through that's put an alternate universe version of the marriage back into play? (And let me tell you, politically, that was a risky thing to pitch and push for-- so, as a marriage fan, you're welcome).

Dan, you've said before that the marriage feels like a "been there, done that story."

Okay, here's the thing-- it doesn't even matter what *I*, the guy who's been writing this book for 9 years feels. If I felt strongly about the marriage and banged on the doors of Marvel everyday saying I felt the marriage should be reinstated-- it wouldn't change a thing. This isn't just about my feelings or the Spider-Editor's feelings or the EIC's feelings. It's about maintaining the core book and its place in the Spider-Man franchise. There are factors involved that have nothing to do with any of those feelings. The marriage is never being reinstated.

But you just came off a third Clone Saga. What's the difference?

The difference is--
A hardcore fan can make that analogy and think "A third rail/controversial storyline" vs "a third rail/controversial storyline", apples to apples, right?
And someone in the industry who understands how this all works and why would know that's not even apples to oranges, that's apples to... xylophones.

You're comparing a controversial storyline to a profound change that affected the core continuity of the brand/franchise in a way that could not be easily fixed. A change that every administration since (including the administration that put it into motion) tried to get undone. No one at Marvel was flagging me down saying, "Dear God, don't use the Jackal in a story." Some were like, "You're going to try a clone story?! Good luck!" (Like a magician telling another, "You're going try the trick that killed Houdini? Good luck!"). And some (mainly marketing) were all, "Make sure you call it something with 'Clone' in the title, there's an audience for that."

"Ah!" you may say, "But there could be an audience for the marriage reinstatement!"
Yes. And that's why RENEW YOUR VOWS went to full series. (And, again, you're welcome.)
But there was never a world where-- after close to 25 years of trying to undo the marriage in the core continuity title that they were ever undoing that.
Could there be a story where Spidey gets a "win" over Mephisto? You bet. Will that "win" result in the marriage being reinstated? Never.

Final thought: Something to keep in mind...
The fantasy scenario where someone "comes to power" who wants to reinstate the marriage, while a false one for many reasons, with every passing year is even less realistic as a fantasy. Marvel editorial is in lockstep on this (which is besides the point, but bear with me for a sec). Every 18 year old who started reading Spider-Man at the age of 8 has grown up with a post-OMD Spider-Man. For them, the marriage was undone, and they're cool with that. Those post-Marriage stories are the ones they grew up reading. Those are the Marvel college interns cycling in now. Those are the assistant editors of the future, who will one day become the editors of the future, and the editor in chiefs in the future. And every year that gets set further into stone. There is no 30 year old or 40 year old who's going to magically pop into Marvel editorial from the side. And year after year, the people who've grown up who feel as strongly as you do about the 1987 marriage status quo are further and further away from Marvel editorial positions. With that in mind-- IT DOESN'T MATTER. Because even the ones in those positions aren't really the ones who can or are going to change it.
There is no lottery ticket win big enough that is getting someone into a magic position of power that's going to change this. There's no zillionaire who's a big reinstate-the-marriage fan who can rest this property away from Disney/Marvel Entertainment. It's never, ever, ever happening.

[Panfoot]

I really don't understand why Marvel is so insistent on making sure one of their most reviled and hated Spider-Man stories stays canon...I understand not wanting to always go with what people say they want, but is there ANYONE who likes this thing? At best I've seen people that are indifferent to it and at worst people who treat it as one of the worst comics ever.