How many romantic relationships could/should Peter have?

[TheCape]

Carlie stuck and almost nobody like her, i doubt that there is people waiting for her return.

Anna Maria was a love interest for Otto, not Peter and she is around mostly for Slott.

[Timmyb52]

Carlie stuck around in the books for about 60 issues after the break-up. She left the title after getting scarred in the effort to restore Peter Parker as Spider-Man.

Ana Maria remains a member of the supporting cast.

If Carlie stuck so well where is she? If Peter really loved her, why hasn't he gone after her,or any of the other girls he's been with since BND?
None of these BND "love interests" were meaningful...it added little to nothing to Peter's growth and progress as a character. He gets with a girl,he breaks up with a girl...on and on it goes with no meaning, nor substance. They are just empty plot devices...meaningless and a complete waste of time.

[WebLurker]

Sure but if romance leads nowhere and is thus pointless we could do way more with the tiem money and enrgy we'd otherwise waste on it.

What I meant was the good series have generally done a good job of balancing the love interest character along with introducing new characters into the mix.

(Personally, I think that trying to move past Mary Jane with new love interest characters is a fool's errant; at this point, that part of the franchise has lost all its plasticity. But that's just me.)

[Spidercide]

Who says it's not going anywhere? Even a relationship that doesn't end well can affect the characters.

For a chracter who is seeking a long term relationship and constantly fails and thus constantly fails to achieve that level of character development it is by its very nature a storyline which leads nowhere.

It is a doomed to fail scenario as the inherent status quo of the character's life is constantly scaled back to square one.

Every relationship Spider-Man enters is done under the auspices of him (and by extension the readers) hoping it will lead to a permanent long term relationship at least akin to marriage as that is what the characetr wants. But it never does and we know it never does thus rendering the plot line redundent.

Its like how in Voyager the crew were always trying and failing to get home. WTF is the point of watching then, or at least being invested in that aspect of the series? Not to mention how utterly dull and repetitive it is and was even back in 1987.

In contrast most of the ways which a relationship could hypothetically affect Spider-Man could be achieved through introducing said character and making it a non-romantic relationship. You could hit all the same novelty and hypothetical development and affects on the characters but not waste our time with the romance. A romance which is also doomed to never be as good as the romance he had with MJ due to not being able to develop for 20 years.

it is an unacceptable creative trade off to exchange a great permanent relationship/character for a rotating door of multiple medicore relationships and characters. It is esepcially dissonant in the context of how most comic book fans think of comic book franchises and assign roles to the characters and their places within the wider mythology of the story of said characters. This is why Lois Lane has never seriously been replaced (at least in a workable way) as Superman's ultimate love interest. Even media adaptations played her as the one for him just as they played Luthor as his nemesis. Same goes for Catwoman and Joker.


To trade in the MJ character and relationship for hypothetically multiple other women inadequately filling the same roles is like trading in Joker permanently for a myriad of other less renowned villains

[Mister Mets]

For a chracter who is seeking a long term relationship and constantly fails and thus constantly fails to achieve that level of character development it is by its very nature a storyline which leads nowhere.

It is a doomed to fail scenario as the inherent status quo of the character's life is constantly scaled back to square one.

Every relationship Spider-Man enters is done under the auspices of him (and by extension the readers) hoping it will lead to a permanent long term relationship at least akin to marriage as that is what the characetr wants. But it never does and we know it never does thus rendering the plot line redundent.

Its like how in Voyager the crew were always trying and failing to get home. WTF is the point of watching then, or at least being invested in that aspect of the series? Not to mention how utterly dull and repetitive it is and was even back in 1987.

In contrast most of the ways which a relationship could hypothetically affect Spider-Man could be achieved through introducing said character and making it a non-romantic relationship. You could hit all the same novelty and hypothetical development and affects on the characters but not waste our time with the romance. A romance which is also doomed to never be as good as the romance he had with MJ due to not being able to develop for 20 years.

it is an unacceptable creative trade off to exchange a great permanent relationship/character for a rotating door of multiple medicore relationships and characters. It is esepcially dissonant in the context of how most comic book fans think of comic book franchises and assign roles to the characters and their places within the wider mythology of the story of said characters. This is why Lois Lane has never seriously been replaced (at least in a workable way) as Superman's ultimate love interest. Even media adaptations played her as the one for him just as they played Luthor as his nemesis. Same goes for Catwoman and Joker.


To trade in the MJ character and relationship for hypothetically multiple other women inadequately filling the same roles is like trading in Joker permanently for a myriad of other less renowned villains

Isn't this like saying there's no point to reading the Batman comics because he will never rid Gotham City of crime?

[Timmyb52]

Isn't this like saying there's no point to reading the Batman comics because he will never rid Gotham City of crime?

This is false equivalence...Bruce Wayne/Batman has been allowed to have relationships that allowed character growth/progress with his son Damien Wayne who is now in several books.
What progress has been made with Peters character since BND? Nothing! He has been running in place for the last 10 years!

[Spidercide]

Isn't this like saying there's no point to reading the Batman comics because he will never rid Gotham City of crime?

Not t all.

To begin with Batman doesn't ACTUALLY fight to be permanently rid of crime in Gotham city. He'd be a delusional maniac if so but he obviously isn't. Batman fights to alleviate a problem the same way every cop does.

batman doesn't actually make most or any of his stories about his frequent failed attempts to rid criem in Gotham where we follow his journey towards that goal along but get thrown back to square one all the time.

Next, Batman ridding crime or the X-Men trying to fight for equality are by their inherent natures different to Spider-Man fidning permanent romantic fulfillment through a romantic interest. One is realistically acheivable in the short term history of like...the existence of humanity. the other is at best possibly achievable soemday in the distant future and that is the nature of the reality we ALL live in. But to say it's the nature of reality that we all will endlessly try and fail to find love is illogical and untrue.

But again that doesn't matter because in character Batman doesn't honestly think he'll forever be rid of crime in Gotham anymore than Gordon does. Like Superman Batman understands he's fighting a never ending battle.

Furthermore Spider-Man's romantic fullfillment whilst taking up far too much time in the series isn't the wholesale point of it the way fighting crime in Gotham is the wholesale point of batman.

[Timmyb52]

I have heard the lame excuse that OMD happened because Peter should have never been with a super model since BND and it just doesn't make any logical sense.
So...it's OK for Peter to be with drop dead beautiful women as long as they aren't super models? And by the way...MJ was not a super model until much later after Peter met her.
How is a super model too good for Peter exactly? Is Peter too ugly to have a super model? Is it because he doesn't make enough money and a super model is out of his league?
They aren't saying that Peter can't have a super model as a girlfriend or wife...they are just saying they don't want MJ to be his girlfriend or wife...it's just Anti-MJ bias hidden behind lame,illogical excuses that don't make a lick of sense!

[Mister Mets]

Not t all.

To begin with Batman doesn't ACTUALLY fight to be permanently rid of crime in Gotham city. He'd be a delusional maniac if so but he obviously isn't. Batman fights to alleviate a problem the same way every cop does.

batman doesn't actually make most or any of his stories about his frequent failed attempts to rid criem in Gotham where we follow his journey towards that goal along but get thrown back to square one all the time.

Next, Batman ridding crime or the X-Men trying to fight for equality are by their inherent natures different to Spider-Man fidning permanent romantic fulfillment through a romantic interest. One is realistically acheivable in the short term history of like...the existence of humanity. the other is at best possibly achievable soemday in the distant future and that is the nature of the reality we ALL live in. But to say it's the nature of reality that we all will endlessly try and fail to find love is illogical and untrue.

But again that doesn't matter because in character Batman doesn't honestly think he'll forever be rid of crime in Gotham anymore than Gordon does. Like Superman Batman understands he's fighting a never ending battle.

Furthermore Spider-Man's romantic fullfillment whilst taking up far too much time in the series isn't the wholesale point of it the way fighting crime in Gotham is the wholesale point of batman.

Whether the permanent fulfillment is realistic or not, it's something characters rarely get in an ongoing work of fiction. At least until the end.

I have heard the lame excuse that OMD happened because Peter should have never been with a super model since BND and it just doesn't make any logical sense.
So...it's OK for Peter to be with drop dead beautiful women as long as they aren't super models? And by the way...MJ was not a super model until much later after Peter met her.
How is a super model too good for Peter exactly? Is Peter too ugly to have a super model? Is it because he doesn't make enough money and a super model is out of his league?
They aren't saying that Peter can't have a super model as a girlfriend or wife...they are just saying they don't want MJ to be his girlfriend or wife...it's just Anti-MJ bias hidden behind lame,illogical excuses that don't make a lick of sense!

I don't think anyone'e endorsing another supermodel to be Peter's wife.

There are several arguments.

Some readers think that MJ is out of Peter's league, or that she as an individual is a poor fit for Peter.

My view is that all things being equal it would be better if she wasn't a celebrity in terms of how a relationship with her would shape Peter's reputation, but that this alone isn't enough to disqualify MJ.

[Spidercide]

I have heard the lame excuse that OMD happened because Peter should have never been with a super model since BND and it just doesn't make any logical sense.
So...it's OK for Peter to be with drop dead beautiful women as long as they aren't super models? And by the way...MJ was not a super model until much later after Peter met her.
How is a super model too good for Peter exactly? Is Peter too ugly to have a super model? Is it because he doesn't make enough money and a super model is out of his league?
They aren't saying that Peter can't have a super model as a girlfriend or wife...they are just saying they don't want MJ to be his girlfriend or wife...it's just Anti-MJ bias hidden behind lame,illogical excuses that don't make a lick of sense!

Frankly the whole 'Spider-Man shouldn't be with a supermodel' argument is...really, really sexist. Because real talk, it isn't coming from a place of 'she brings in too much money and has too much glamour due to the circles she moves in'. If that was the real criticism then that would've gone away once MJ STOPPED being a model or people would've suggested she drop that job. Mj did in fact cease working as a model in 1989 then briefly resumed to model materntiy clothes in the mid-1990s before John Byrne gave her that job back SPECIFICALLY to point out how wrong it was for Spider-Man to be married to a supermodel, thus justifying removing her from the title, so literally creating a problem to justify removing it.

But the argument was never about MJ's chosen occupation or social standing due to said occupation. It was actually just coded shorthand for 'she is too attractive'. Which is disgusting because its negatively judging someone by their appearance.

Plus its not like MOST women in comics don't have typically attractive bodies in the first place.

Spider-Man MARRIED to a woman who could be attractive enough to work as an actress or model is unacceptable because it stops him being the everyman and/or being a loser since obviously being married to a sexy woman mitigates any and all problems a red blooded male can have in their lives. It's the ultimate sexual fantasy so how much of a LOSER could he really be?

BUT Spider-Man having frequent no strings attached kinky mask sex in hotel rooms with a platinum haired, black leather clad, nymphomaniac written cat burglar with a chest to make Pamela Anderson jealous is a-okay. That isn't the most idiotic juvenile sexual fantasy ever printed in a Marvel comic ever.

[Spidercide]

Whether the permanent fulfillment is realistic or not, it's something characters rarely get in an ongoing work of fiction. At least until the end.



I don't think anyone'e endorsing another supermodel to be Peter's wife.

There are several arguments.

Some readers think that MJ is out of Peter's league, or that she as an individual is a poor fit for Peter.

My view is that all things being equal it would be better if she wasn't a celebrity in terms of how a relationship with her would shape Peter's reputation, but that this alone isn't enough to disqualify MJ.

That argument is illogical when one considers that when it comes to marriage or romantic fulfilment MANY characters have achieved that. Spider-Man of course was one such character. Superman and Lois Lane, Reed Richards and Sue Storm, Cyclops and Jean Grey and later Emma Frost, the Hulk and Betty Ross. These are all examples of the very thing you say rarely happens happening, and all have been ended artificially for objectively unjustified creative reasons.

To argue otherwise is like saying Spider-Man should never have left High school or college or ever entered a science based field.

Characters in comic books DO develop and hit life milestones, carrying those forward into the future frequently.

This isn’t even again bringing up the fact that the entire series isn’t about Spider-Man’s pursuit of romance. Spider-Man isn’t a romance comic. It isn’t even a series where romance is a subgenre. It’s about the life of this one person and so romance happens to be a part of it because romance is an important element to most people’s lives.


I respect some readers think MJ is out of Peter’s league or a poor fit for him.

But that ignores the very important fact that those readers happen to be wrong in their assessments. In regards to the former complaint it is particularly egregious. If people feel a strong enough attraction to another person and are in a position to do so often times they will hook up.

Mary Jane from day one was attracted to Peter. She knew him and they grew up together. They’ve been bonded through mutual shared traumatic experiences. The shallow veneer of ‘leagues’ at that point becomes irrelevant. Putting aside how Peter Parker in-universe is hardly unattractive physically, his lifestyle and personality would be a strong attractor to many people, particularly MJ given her own history. Whilst he might be out of MJ’s league in terms of his ability to be a financial provider this is irrelevant as a factor for 2 reasons.

a) In the modern day where many women can support themselves seeking a male partner as a provider for you is less and less likely to be a consideration
b) MJ has always been someone who values her independence

So Peter being a photographer wouldn’t in MJ’s eyes put him out of her league at all, especially when she understands the reasn he cannot hold down a steady job is due to being a superhero.

As for MJ’s celebrity status the writers have always been inconsistent over this. In the modern day where there is such a huge turn over of news and pop culture MJ would have to be a HUGE star and maintain that level of fame for several years to truly make it difficult for her to walk back to a civilian life.

But she isn’t. She’s never been a-list. Indeed the degree of fame she has been presented as having in light of being a model is unrealistic. Most people do not know a models’ names unless there is some kind of media specifically naming them that’s in their face. How many people knew who the hell Megan Fox was before Transformers? Hardly anybody because up until that point she was at best a face they might’ve recognized cropping up in a few pieces of advertising where she wasn’t a memorable character or personality but just a vessel to sell a product (no disrespect to people who do those jobs).

Since her biggest roles have been

-a disposed of love interest in the first 30 minutes of a cheesy B-movie from several years ago
-A recurring (but not regular) role on a daytime soap opera for less than 2 years which happened about 10 years ago in the history of the Marvel universe
-the host of a crappy and briefly run reality TV show

In real life, let alone in a world of super powered beings and alien invasions, these are forgettable roles which get buried in the rotating door f celebrity gossip.

MJ is not an A-list celebrity or anywhere close to that. the thing she’d be most famous for is being presumed dead for awhile which in the Marvel Universe is called Tuesday and we should ignore that in the interests of course correction anyway.

[Timmyb52]

Whether the permanent fulfillment is realistic or not, it's something characters rarely get in an ongoing work of fiction. At least until the end.



I don't think anyone'e endorsing another supermodel to be Peter's wife.

There are several arguments.

Some readers think that MJ is out of Peter's league, or that she as an individual is a poor fit for Peter.

My view is that all things being equal it would be better if she wasn't a celebrity in terms of how a relationship with her would shape Peter's reputation, but that this alone isn't enough to disqualify MJ.

Again...these excuses are not sound!
Peter is now a Billionaire/celebrity and MJ hasn't been a super model/celebrity in a long time...is she still too good for him?
MJ works for Tony Stark another Billionaire/celebrity and at one point there was hints that she was going to hook up with him,another superhero...is MJ a bad fit for him also because she used to be a supermodel/celebrity? I sense a double standard here that really does nothing but tries to validate an Anti-MJ bias whose goal is simply to keep MJ from being with Peter.
Who determines that MJ is a bad fit for Peter? Hasn't even Marvel acknowledged in many comics and in OMD that MJ is his soul mate...why else did Mephisto want their marriage? People with an Anti-MJ bias are self-serving...they don't want whats best for his character but just want to see a character they dislike out of the books and her character diminished!
BND continuity has not given Peter a new soul mate after 10 years of trying to do exactly that...and it won't. The only one for Peter Parker is MJ...always has, and always will be.

[Timmyb52]

Frankly the whole 'Spider-Man shouldn't be with a supermodel' argument is...really, really sexist. Because real talk, it isn't coming from a place of 'she brings in too much money and has too much glamour due to the circles she moves in'. If that was the real criticism then that would've gone away once MJ STOPPED being a model or people would've suggested she drop that job. Mj did in fact cease working as a model in 1989 then briefly resumed to model materntiy clothes in the mid-1990s before John Byrne gave her that job back SPECIFICALLY to point out how wrong it was for Spider-Man to be married to a supermodel, thus justifying removing her from the title, so literally creating a problem to justify removing it.

But the argument was never about MJ's chosen occupation or social standing due to said occupation. It was actually just coded shorthand for 'she is too attractive'. Which is disgusting because its negatively judging someone by their appearance.

Plus its not like MOST women in comics don't have typically attractive bodies in the first place.

Spider-Man MARRIED to a woman who could be attractive enough to work as an actress or model is unacceptable because it stops him being the everyman and/or being a loser since obviously being married to a sexy woman mitigates any and all problems a red blooded male can have in their lives. It's the ultimate sexual fantasy so how much of a LOSER could he really be?

BUT Spider-Man having frequent no strings attached kinky mask sex in hotel rooms with a platinum haired, black leather clad, nymphomaniac written cat burglar with a chest to make Pamela Anderson jealous is a-okay. That isn't the most idiotic juvenile sexual fantasy ever printed in a Marvel comic ever.

Yes this!!!
And that's what a majority of these women have been for Peter since BND...sexual fantasies and eye candy with no real substance! If Peter really loved any of these women he would have gone after them and fought for them to stay in his life and told them how much they meant to him...but he did none of these things and just moved on to the next "hot" chick. And so it goes...BND continuity has done nothing but present the image of Peter Parker as a Playboy moving from one empty relationship to the next! The real issue here is not MJ is too "attractive"...it's MJ herself they despise and hate.

[Timmyb52]

Very,very nicely put Spidercide!

[Derek Metaltron]

My feelings on the matter regarding Peter's love life is this.

Bring back the Peter - Mary Jane relationship (and ideally marriage). As others have said and what Slott tries to make people forget - and fails at - is that MJ is way too entrenched a love interest for Peter, to the extent that no other relationship works, if indeed they even bother, because everything is always compared to the MJ relationship. Ultimately Peter has had four great loves - Betty, which was concluded tactfully, Gwen, whose death is integral to her story for all her 'returns' and really loved Peter and not Spider-Man for logical reasons, Felicia who loves the mask and not the man underneath (and is now a tainted villainess anyway) and MJ, who loves both and when written properly understands why Peter needs to be what he is, and loves him for it. Really MJ is the only relationship to significantly stand the test of time and thus every Ross and Rachel style attempt to keep them separate and attempt to erode it doesn't work.

My ten cents anyway. I liked Spidey and Captain Marvel together since that was refreshingly different but that's another thing which 'can't work' because of cross title politics and the idea one characters has to be 'lesser' to the other.