How To Give Firestorm A Rebirth?

[Lee Stone]

I'd give Firestorm to Mike Allred to work over.

[nightrider]

Really? Jax's actor is terrible, but at least his character is decent most of the time. Stein though? He's a selfish, self-aggrandizing douchebag who's constantly screwing everyone else over. Every time he's on screen, I want Sara to throw him out the Waverider.

Incidentally, aside from the "So Bad it's Good Factor", Sara and Mick are pretty much the only reasons I watch that show.

i wish they'll kick firestorm out. I don't want either of them on my screen.

[LordTrump]

i wish they'll kick firestorm out. I don't want either of them on my screen.

Weird cuz everyone else raves about that show.

[Ascended]

No, I don't think he does. All of the problems you describe can be addressed by a Rebirth issue that takes the final status quo of LoT as its starting point:

Probably true. I usually say that reboots only make things worse and *almost* everything can be fixed by six months of quality writing. I was just disappointed in that story, primarily in the way nothing was done to make the concept contemporary.

And I like your idea of the Matrix. I think I saw that earlier in the thread, was that you there too?

i wish they'll kick firestorm out. I don't want either of them on my screen.

Other than Heatwave, I think Firestorm is the best part of that show. Which isnt really saying a whole lot, the show isn't exactly high quality. But I find them less annoying than most of the cast.

[nightrider]

Weird cuz everyone else raves about that show.

I do like legends I just think that Firestorm doesn't contribute to the show.

[C_haos]

Just make it a Firestorm family each character has their pros and cons bring back Gehenna, Firehawk and the Russian Firestorm. Keep Stein and Jax pairing, but have Jason and Ronnie be able to become Firestorm on their own.

[LordTrump]

Also, shameless plug, here's a video of DC villainesses (relevant due to frost)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ga8gdo...1a2AZD-LecW8ZQ

[Ascended]

I'd give Firestorm to Mike Allred to work over.

Crazy enough it just might work!

I was thinking Warren Ellis, with Kelly Sue DeConnick co-writing. Ellis has the crazy big ideas and does solid action sequences. KSD writes some of the best dialogue in the business and has a way of getting into a character's head and humanizing them. They've done some really strong work together in the past and I think a gestalt writing team for Firestorm has some nice synergy, and these two bring out the best in each other and help cover each other's weak points. KSD would make the character dynamics shine and Ellis would use and update the concept into something wild and interesting.

[Dataweaver]

Probably true. I usually say that reboots only make things worse and *almost* everything can be fixed by six months of quality writing. I was just disappointed in that story, primarily in the way nothing was done to make the concept contemporary.

And I like your idea of the Matrix. I think I saw that earlier in the thread, was that you there too?

It was. Firestorm doesn't have to go that way, of course; but I mentioned it to illustrate that a reboot isn't necessary. Really, the only reboots that are needed is when the character's history itself has become the source of problems — and even then, you can usually work around it.

[Ascended]

You're right, I was just talking crazy for a second.

Reboots are bad things.

Though really, Firestorm has had such little impact on the DCU these last several years it probably wouldn't hurt anything *too* badly.

[J. D. Guy]

In fact, I found the treatment Jason got to be pretty sad. Jason gets kicked out of Firestorm and there's no effort put into it at all. It's just Jason suddenly becoming a liability, Stein not knowing why but throwing himself into the same situation quickly enough, it works for him with no decent explanation given, we get a throwaway line about the shift being permanent....from the same guy who doesnt know what is happening in the first place...and Ronnie basically just rolls with it. If I were a Jason fan I'd find it insulting as f**k.

This sums up how I was left feeling when all was said and done quite succinctly.

Fore more "slat on wounds" factor, since I was reading this as it went a long, I was left hoping it wouldn't end the way it was going to, right up to the very end when it.

I found Jason likewise bland; he's just the nerd. And we don't even really get to see him as a "fun" nerd playing video games with his friends or something. And I dont know if the....softening.....of his father is on Conway or the New52 (hell it could've started in Brightest Day and I likely wouldnt remember), but I also disliked how Jason's father has changed from an abusive man to a loving father with a tiny bit of "tough love" in him. Dont get me wrong, child abuse is a serious thing and as a parent it makes my stomach churn, but it also made Jason more interesting and sympathetic and removing that challenge, that adversary, from Jason's supporting cast weakens his character. Jason's father was basically his Lex Luthor; the villain who gets under your skin the most, who you can never quite defeat.

I'll always love Jason the most when he was in the initial Firestorm New 52 series, because of his demeanor. His dad did have a "tough love" kind of deal, as he instilled in his son to always be truthful and seek the truth, taking zero mess from anybody. This made Jason strong-spoken, among other good things, which was awesome to have in a character like him, that is, a black youth.

His dad essentially selling out his ideals and integrity was also a disillusioning factor for Jason in the story, so it wasn't always roses between them there.

He also wasn't a typical nerd, either. He was smart, but if need be, he could hold his own in a fist fight thanks to boxing lessons he had under his belt. He was perceptive, too. The Jason from back then would never have fallen so easily for that girl's sabotage like he did in the LoT series.

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

Having not read the stories in question, just the interviews with Gerry Conway, it seems the biggest mistake was getting Conway to do it. Granted, I can understand the impetus, seeing as he created Firestorm in the first place, but it's clear from the interviews that he regards any change from "Ronnie + Stein = Firestorm" to be "Not Firestorm."

[J. D. Guy]

Having not read the stories in question, just the interviews with Gerry Conway, it seems the biggest mistake was getting Conway to do it. Granted, I can understand the impetus, seeing as he created Firestorm in the first place, but it's clear from the interviews that he regards any change from "Ronnie + Stein = Firestorm" to be "Not Firestorm."

I never realized that. I guess you're right; those were some early red flag warnings.

[Frontier]

You're right, I was just talking crazy for a second.

Reboots are bad things.

Though really, Firestorm has had such little impact on the DCU these last several years it probably wouldn't hurt anything *too* badly.

Granted, while he hasn't done anything of note in the comics for a while, he's probably had the most media exposure he's ever had as of late, even if he's three different people across three different pieces of media .

[skyvolt2000]

Having not read the stories in question, just the interviews with Gerry Conway, it seems the biggest mistake was getting Conway to do it. Granted, I can understand the impetus, seeing as he created Firestorm in the first place, but it's clear from the interviews that he regards any change from "Ronnie + Stein = Firestorm" to be "Not Firestorm."

When Conway said Jason had a series in the 90s-that was the red flag we ALL should have seen. Another character being put in the and of someone who doesn't care for him.

If they wanted a Ronnie only story-there was nothing stopping them from doing it. A line about Jason visiting colleges would have been nice.