How do you rate wolverine enemy of state II compared with original arc

[theoneandonly]

How do you rate Wolverine enemy of the state II storyline compared with the original arc? Was it as good or better or wasn't up to the par when compared with the original? Which was more darker in tone and induced more horrifying moments for both readers and the respective Wolverine?
I think wolverine enemy of state II was a good storyline and can be favourably compared with the original although it lost steam in some issues. Though it lacked as many guest stars as previous ones as it was obviously focused on the resolution of Laura's dark past and her overcoming the trigger scent rather than killing other heroes and turning them hydra which was the previous storylines premise. It was essentially her taking out the sabertooth of her life and was emotively stronger storyline than the first one even though it had its moments. It has enabled her to make a complete break from her dark past and strengthened her superhero image whereas the original had Logan turn into agent of shield which wasn't as important or as much of a significant development in logans character arc.
Of course the original arc was more full of action and mayhem right from the beginning giving full scope for showing wolverines prowess as a killing machine whereas this was a more of a nuanced psychological thriller.

[Ambaryerno]

I haven't read the original myself and only really know it from synopses, but they really shouldn't have used the EotS title (Taylor himself said as much, but it was forced by editorial). The similarities are only largely superficial.

Overall the arc wasn't particularly great. It had moments, but the plot was strangely both rushed and stretched thin. Interesting concepts, like breaking Laura of the trigger scent, could have stood more fleshing out, while some of the sub plots (IE Ash and her pirates) came cross as filler. Roughhouse was ultimately kind of wasted. I'd have LOVED to see a conflict between him and Gabby like the kid and the chief henchman from Mummy Returns, with Gabby annoying the piss out of him, but Roughhouse unable to do anything about it because they need her alive. Thety also could have played up Bellona's face-heel turn further, especially by forcing Gabby to fight her, and possibly even kill her. The final conflict with Kimura was also rather anti-climactic. I'd have preferred to see Kimura actually going to Megan and Debbie's house to force their confrontation there (Taylor could have just given them a pool to allow for Kimura's death by drowning). Besides making for a nice bookend with Target X, it would have raised the stakes and drama considerably for Laura's family to be put directly into the line of fire. Bellona revealed as the actual perpetrator of the Daylesville killings also comes across as a bit of a cop-out. It could have been interesting to see Laura coping with the consequences of having killed so many innocent people, ESPECIALLY if she were to be exonerated by SHIELD due to the circumstances.

The artwork was also a significant downgrade from past arcs, so much of the visual storytelling was lost as a result. Quite a few moments could probably have been saved with more emotion from the characters, while Virella and Pham's work just seemed so lifeless (and don't get me started on Pham's nose shading. Seriously, NO ONE'S nose is shadowed like that!).

I'm left wondering how much was really Taylor, and how much was editorial at this point, when you compare his work here to what he did with Four Sisters and Civil War. I liked that the trigger scent and Kimura plots were finally resolved (the former especially, after how badly it was used by Liu and Hopeless. It makes NO SENSE that someone could take a substance Laura had to be tortured into reacting to and make it so it affects ANYONE, to say nothing of how having even Arcade able to reproduce it seriously waters it down).

Overall I give the arc about a 6. Maybe a 6.5. There were some good ideas in there, and some of them were well-executed, but its ultimately weighed down by its flaws.

[theoneandonly]

I haven't read the original myself and only really know it from synopses, but they really shouldn't have used the EotS title (Taylor himself said as much, but it was forced by editorial). The similarities are only largely superficial.

Overall the arc wasn't particularly great. It had moments, but the plot was strangely both rushed and stretched thin. Interesting concepts, like breaking Laura of the trigger scent, could have stood more fleshing out, while some of the sub plots (IE Ash and her pirates) came cross as filler. Roughhouse was ultimately kind of wasted. I'd have LOVED to see a conflict between him and Gabby like the kid and the chief henchman from Mummy Returns, with Gabby annoying the piss out of him, but Roughhouse unable to do anything about it because they need her alive. Thety also could have played up Bellona's face-heel turn further, especially by forcing Gabby to fight her, and possibly even kill her. The final conflict with Kimura was also rather anti-climactic. I'd have preferred to see Kimura actually going to Megan and Debbie's house to force their confrontation there (Taylor could have just given them a pool to allow for Kimura's death by drowning). Besides making for a nice bookend with Target X, it would have raised the stakes and drama considerably for Laura's family to be put directly into the line of fire. Bellona revealed as the actual perpetrator of the Daylesville killings also comes across as a bit of a cop-out. It could have been interesting to see Laura coping with the consequences of having killed so many innocent people, ESPECIALLY if she were to be exonerated by SHIELD due to the circumstances.

The artwork was also a significant downgrade from past arcs, so much of the visual storytelling was lost as a result. Quite a few moments could probably have been saved with more emotion from the characters, while Virella and Pham's work just seemed so lifeless (and don't get me started on Pham's nose shading. Seriously, NO ONE'S nose is shadowed like that!).

I'm left wondering how much was really Taylor, and how much was editorial at this point, when you compare his work here to what he did with Four Sisters and Civil War. I liked that the trigger scent and Kimura plots were finally resolved (the former especially, after how badly it was used by Liu and Hopeless. It makes NO SENSE that someone could take a substance Laura had to be tortured into reacting to and make it so it affects ANYONE, to say nothing of how having even Arcade able to reproduce it seriously waters it down).

Overall I give the arc about a 6. Maybe a 6.5. There were some good ideas in there, and some of them were well-executed, but its ultimately weighed down by its flaws.

very nice critique. Yes I agree with many of the points you made although I think the title was the best one they could use as it would denote the subversion of the heroic character to commit horrific deeds against their will and as for superficial similiarities theyvhad the sake main premise though from which the story developed and obviously it would have to play out differently to the previous one although that she actually hadn't commuted any such thing was a bit of a copout but seriously they couldn't have showed shield letting her walk away after that even with the mind control defense.
It would have been more interesting if they had arrested her regardless as she has committed such deeds before in the past under mind control and matt Murdock could have finally gained her pardon for those deeds by some inspired gambit although he is functioning as a prosecutor these days I think. any way maybe she hulk could have been called in for her to fully deal with the legal ramifications of her actions and have her gain a pardon so she could have a clean break. Agreed some characters like gambit and gabby and fury could have had more role in the storyline and the plot could have stood additional lengthening for a issue or two but then maybe it would have proved determental to the focus on laura.
I also think that her taking out kimura before she could threaten her relatives was a planned decision as it had been done before in previous storylines and maybe they wanted to echo the scene of wolverine drowning out damian when Logan straight out killed him to his disbelief when he threatened his 'family'.
Totally agree with you that the art was the weak point and could have used someone better.

[MindofShadow]

I am not a HUGE laura fan but have surprisingly enjoyed her book throughout and have dabbled in the past (mostly because it intertwined with Logan and Gambit, two of my X favs)

But EOTS felt like to solved too many huge issues in x23's history way too fast and way too easily.

The trigger scent is a huge part of her character... and it was seemingly solved in a few pages.

Kimura is a huge part of her story... and she got dealt without incredibly untraumatically and way too quickly.

Two huge moments that felt like they had no weight behind them at all. The emotional weight Laura should have felt lifted of her shouldres bc she was no longer a slave to the trigger scent should have been HUGE. Finally dealing with Kimura should have felt more epic and much more dangerous. I felt nothing when they happened other than a shrug.

[Dthirds3]

The original is my favorite wolverine story, that being said enemy of state 2 was decent, it had a good plot just bad execution, Laura overcoming trigger scent should have taken longer same with the fight with Kimura. Also the story book ending was the low point though it was njce that she ment her cosine and aunt again. Also original Logan cared more about a boy he didn't save then the hundreds people he killed and uses the brainwashing as a excuelse. Laura was the opposite and is better for it . She wanted to be held accountable and didn't view being controlled as a excuse and it shows why shes a grear charater. Having Bellona take the balame was a cop-out and actually fell bad for killing inosent , if she made a deal to keep Laura out of jail would have been better and set up a lot good storyes ex the victims loved ones hunting her. Also the original is really 12 issues first half logan was controlled second half he worked with shield to get revenge. Taylor tried to condense a 12+ issue long story in 6 issues and have a perfect ending. And that's why it's not as good as it should have be. Also the art was bad, and inconsistent the was a big turnoff.overall 6.5 decent but not greate

[MarvelMaster616]

After reading that final issue, I'd say Enemy of the State II is right up there with the original. It didn't surpass it. I don't think it could've surpassed it. But I think it was a fantastic iteration of a great Wolverine story, one that really helped X-23 establish herself as the new Wolverine. I can't wait for it to come out in TPB.

[Wolverine12]

I think I need to re-read it in one sitting but for me it was quite a let down. The original spanned more of the Marvel Universe and showed how dangerous an unleashed Logan could be, this was not the case with Laura who can be just as dangerous, she just wasn't in this story. I definitely prefer JRJR over the artist that drew EoTSII.

[jlgarsh]

I thought when she called herself the daughter of Logan it was a nice tie in to the film. In New X-Men 21, Logan introduced her to the other students as his sister Laura, though he really acted as a father figure for her. Either way, I thought the timing of it was cool.

[Wiccan]

The scene where she kills Kimura was pretty great imo. I thought it was a pretty strong scene, and I hope she and the trigger scent don't come back any time soon. I liked how Jean and all the supporting characters were used. What bothered me the most was the unnecessary "And btw, Laura didn't actually killed people!" at the end and the art.

[Tycon]

Re-reading Innocence Lost, Target X, shudder NYX shudder, X-Force, Liu's X-23 (yay), and then EOS2 DEFINITELY helped it. It really had me worried that Kimura and Laura were gonna have this really gigantic, world-changing event. But it ends up that Laurs realizes that she's moving forward and she has to cut off any ties to her twisted past. Kimura and the Facility scientists are villains who should of died in X-Force. Plus, it really showed how much her supporting cast has grown. I would have liked to see Megan and her mom a little more. And where is Kiden?? But anyways, there were some huge flaws. One was that the people of Daysville weren't properly characterized enough for me to care that they died. The next one was that any torture in the event for Laura was lost when she turned out to be innocent. It would have been much more emotional if Laura was getting vengeance on Kimura not only for her but for the people of Daysville. The last one was the art. Virella and Pham's finally issues were both amazing at capturing emotion, their introduction issues into ANW didn't help EOS2 live up to the hype initially.

All-in-All, it was really great. Could have been much better. Also, the original EOS wasn't all that iconic but it did have much better art. Plus, Taylor's scripts run way smoother than Miller's Wolverine comics.

[Digifiend]

I thought when she called herself the daughter of Logan it was a nice tie in to the film. In New X-Men 21, Logan introduced her to the other students as his sister Laura, though he really acted as a father figure for her. Either way, I thought the timing of it was cool.

Daughter fits better than sister, considering that Laura's gender gene comes from Sarah Kinney, meaning that her genes are only partially Logan's in the same way a child shares their parents' genetics. Someone must've pointed it out, so it was changed. Whereas Gabby is a full clone of Laura (albeit imperfect, hence the missing extra claws), so sister fits there.

[XCE]

Daughter fits better than sister, considering that Laura's gender gene comes from Sarah Kinney, meaning that her genes are only partially Logan's in the same way a child shares their parents' genetics.

Laura didn't get any genetic material from Sarah, though. That's just a long-standing fan head-canon due to the two looking quite similar, but when I talked to X-23's creator Craig Kyle he was quite clear on this subject. Their relationship is more of a father-daughter one, which is natural given their age difference, but biologically Laura is Logan's clone, not daughter.

As for EotS II, I thought it was disappointing. I was asked my opinion of it before so I'll just paste an excerpt of what I said then:

It felt rushed and did a disservice to some great stories that came before by bringing them to a quick and unsatisfying conclusion. Taylor’s motivation didn’t seem to be to write a good story, but just to get rid of some “demons” from Laura’s past, ticking checkboxes along the way. He's gone into full-fledged helicopter dad mode at this point. He’s made it clear that there will be no real or lasting sources of discomfort in Laura’s life and it’s removed all stakes and suspense.

And if the story had been good, it would have been let down by the art.

[Ambaryerno]

Laura didn't get any genetic material from Sarah, though. That's just a long-standing fan head-canon due to the two looking quite similar, but when I talked to X-23's creator Craig Kyle he was quite clear on this subject. Their relationship is more of a father-daughter one, which is natural given their age difference, but biologically Laura is Logan's clone, not daughter.

That's one bit of head-canon I wouldn't mind seeing become actual canon, as there's nothing printed so far in the books that would run counter to it. But yeah, as things exist right now the only DNA Laura has is Logan's.

[Knives]

Good but expected a more epic battle between Laura and her nemesis.

The original is better however rarely a sequence or new story with the same title beats the original.

At least the character can move on now and the best contribution of this story is Gabby.

[Kurolegacy]

That's one bit of head-canon I wouldn't mind seeing become actual canon, as there's nothing printed so far in the books that would run counter to it. But yeah, as things exist right now the only DNA Laura has is Logan's.

Yea gotta agree that that would be a retcon I wouldn't be opposed to as them revealing that would give us further details as to both how Sarah was able to create a viable embryo and why it is that, in spite of Laura only having Logan's DNA, she got his powers but looks like Sarah. Besides, wouldn't be the first time something of a character's history was change not involving the creator. Just look at the Silk and spider totem retcons when it come to Spider-Man.