A question for those that prefer New 52 Superman over Post-Crisis Superman

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

I was going over New 52 Superman's tenure in the flagship books (Action & Superman), and I realized that there were actually more issues that I considered to be good than bad. It's in the positive just barely, but until now, I had thought there were a lot more issues I considered to be bad than good, probably because writers like Lobdell were stuck on my mind.

For the rest of you, do you prefer New 52 Superman just because of Morrison's run and/or Pak's run? I'm speaking strictly about what you thought of the quality of stories from the flagship books, so the potential you saw in New 52 Superman is not really a point of discussion here, nor is his relationship with Wonder Woman and Batman outside of the two flagship books.

Good - 63 issues

Action Comics #0 - #18
Superman #23.1
Superman #23.4
Superman #39 – Superman #40
Superman #45 – Superman #52
Superman Annual #3
Action Comics #23.1
Action Comics #23.2
Action Comics #23.3
Action Comics #23.4
Action Comics #25 – Action Comics #50
Action Comics Annual #1
Action Comics Annual #3

Bad - 57 issues

Superman #0 – #38
Superman #41 - #44
Superman #23.2
Superman #23.3
Superman Annual #1 – Superman Annual #2
Action Comics #19 – Action Comics #24
Action Comics #51 – Action Comics #52
Action Comics Annual #2

Some of the bad issues weren't so bad as they were mediocre, but they certainly didn't rise to the level of good. In the case of Superman #52, it just barely passes as good.

[Lokimaru]

I actually like Lobdell Writing and his depiction of Jor-El and Lara as a Battle Couple was great. Man how can you consider #0 bad when it gave us so much on Jor-El and Lara. The New 52 version were way more fleshed out as people then any other versions except the Silver Age.

[Sonia]

Although I don't mind Morrison's and Pak's run, I actually preferred Scott Lobdell's take on Superman New 52. I don't know how to best describe it other than the way he wrote Superman / Clark kent that was the kind of stories I actually wanted to read about Superman for a long time, and his issues of Superman I actually prefer to purchase. I loved "Super" aspect of Superman that he brought about. I liked how he described Jor-El and Lara relationship along with all of the New 52 Superman events.

The only time I did not actually like New 52 Superman was when Geoff Johns helmed it along with John Romita's art. (Found it utterly boring and that did not change when I read it in trade form version). That however doesn't mean I don't Like Geoff John's writing. I just don't like how he writes Superman.

I stopped following / reading Superman after the conclusion of *Truth* event.

64

[adrikito]

N52 Superman surprised me in Justice League(Initially, I was not going to read superman) and he achieved my admiration in his comics IN GOOD OR BAD MOMENTS, I never doubt of him.. But of course, I prefer the good moments.

SM/WW was a bonus.. But I prefer him than Trevor or Batman(I am a batfan, but Bruce can not make her happy)... Or Diana with another woman. Now is Bisexual..

If his personality never changed.. No matter, Lois again.. I liked when he saved N52 Lois of one Solar Superman attack.. Or maybe for see one Weakened Superman saving another person.

Now for example I see the Kingdom Come Superman as the GOD Superman.. If I admire one character, Something Bad(in my opinion) should happen for change this..

For example the Batgirl case... Burnside is an idea to attract other people.. but I see her as another person and I do not like it... I prefer another time Barbara as Oracle and admire her again.. The rest of batgirl volumes that I read(Steph, Cass, Barbara Pre-burnside) are better in my opinion....


With fans of post-crisis superman will be the same.. Bad adventures=bad writers.. But his fans love him ..

[SuperCrab]

I guess I'm going to be the oddball even among New52 Superman fans when I say my favorite series was specifically the Superman title rather than Action Comics, and my favorite sub-era was specifically the high-collar Kryptonian body armor era rather than the t-shirt and jeans sub-era. Perez (Though he could have been given more creative freedom), Jurgens (Yes, despite what happened later- I liked that issues he did at the time for the New52 Superman book), Lobbell, etc.. The Johns era had big ups and big downs, I didn't care much for Ulysses and that arc, but I loved Superman revealing his identity to his best friend Jim Olson and spending the day with him walking around, talking down the man with the gun while powerless after solar-flaring. I thought Clark testing the solar-flare in all these isolated places around the globe and Batman having to grudging pick him up was hysterical. Clark drinking with the Justice League at a bar and getting drunk for the first time was great.

I felt like this was a new more realistic Superman with an adult edgy characterization who still felt like Superman, and who's cast could have been better if allowed more room to shine- best friend Jim Olson, about the same age as Clark, a Lois who was hotter, more modern, and harder hitting than ever, a friendship with a younger Batman, the relationship with Diana, etc.. This is a Clark Kent who I felt like was a peer to Jim at home as roommates and around town, a peer to Lois in the workplace, the first Superman who felt level with the Justice League. He could make jokes and be loose. His eyes got red and when he got pissed, he got really pissed. Superman was a total badass in this era and could save people and stare down anyone. He was intimidating as heck, because people felt like he would really just tear him apart- I remember one scene in a police interrogation room that was incredible. But he was a modern human being who acted loose and personable as Clark, albeit with his characteristic nervousness about broaching certain things with Lois.

This was Superman in a classic setup with an improved modernized uniform and personality in and out of uniform that was never the less the same iconic character. It's one of the rare cases where changes were made to an iconic character that were significant and the character still rang true and was interestingly recognizable as Superman. I can't remember if the rant about not being allowed to cover landlord abuse of tenants in the slums and the state of media about Morgan Edge's info-tainment and quitting the Daily Planet came in Superman or Action Comics, but that was a great moment to me.

I would say the t-shirt and jeans Morrison era was also good, because I like Superman as a social justice crusader. I think the Daily Star thing was good. But, I've got to admit, the early Action Comics (2011) enjoyment was more about my politics and world view being to the left and liking seeing a Superman who stood up for the little guy like the original Superman did way back when. The main Superman (2011) title was where most of my favorite actual stories came from, and what entertained me the most, and had Superman in his then-new high collar uniform and body armor (Which were awesome) from the beginning.

In a new universe, one also got the sense that almost anything could happen, and it often did. This wasn't a guy with a wife and kids leading a settled existence. He was finding his way in the world- a new world that was similar to what we used to know before, but different. One of the best early scenes in Superman might actually be where he starts complaining about people gawking at battles and taking pictures on their cell phones constantly instead of getting clear- that's Superman in the 10s, man. I'm not even joking, I liked it.

A lot of cheesiness of some old Superman stuff was gone. This was more realistic and gritty, yet still with the Superman preserving for truth, justice, and all that stuff. When he had to deal with Kon-El in a crossover, he had stern words for a teenager hanging out with other teenagers and risking their lives- a big difference between him and Rebirth Superman, who encourages his 10 year old son to be a superhero.

Even just the artwork in the New52 I think had an action movie realism vibe. Rebirth tends towards being over the top cartoonish. I mean, yes, all comics are cartoons, but the New52 it didn't feel like a cartoon- it felt like art with a realism to it. Rebirth is closer to like a Saturday morning cartoon series style in the way it's typically drawn and colored- that doesn't mean it's bad, it's just that people are asking what precisely I prefer, and I'm trying to quantify it as much as I can.

New52 had drama and twists and turns.

This example is from Action Comics, but Superman punching that cop and standing there chained with the protesters almost made the whole Truth arc worth it. It was genuinely shocking to see him punch a cop, and it was a good kind of shock. This is a Superman who surprised us by breaking the mold to stand with the oppressed against the powerful, and in doing so was more true to what Superman started out as and should be.

New52 Superman was a product of his past, but he wasn't recreating it. One issue with SuperDad is the farm and the kid and it really feels like he's Pa Kent now and his son is supposed to be Superman as a kid- and I didn't even really like extended flashbacks of that. The tone is totally different.

I am one of those who wouldn't mind a middle of the road Superman. I don't specifically need Superman to be New52 Superman, although I would like him to be (And in fact in a perfect world might like to see him even take an R-rated turn), but Rebirth swings in a very different direction. It doesn't just differ in that it got rid of the New52 distinctives I loved so much, it also broke elements of the traditional format I loved- like Clark Kent being a reporter at the Daily Planet and the people there being his main non-superhero cast. The Clark who had a massive crush on Lois but couldn't always be with her (And, no New52 Superman didn't break that by dating Diana- Diana was an exploration of the idea that Clark would put people he dated in danger and it would divide his loyalties between the planet and his family, one of the reasons he often didn't date Lois traditionally, and Diana was a fix to those problems, which was interesting both in the idea that maybe he'd continue with her and then see why it couldn't work with anyone but Lois, but also interesting in the idea that maybe it actually would work with Diana- new world, new universe, open future. ). Most of Rebirth isn't even set in Metropolis.

I miss both the great New52 distinctiveness and the traditional Superman elements it had and Rebirth lacks or has changed in a negative way (for me, subjectively- just an opinion, obviously some disagree, but it's how I feel about it).

[D4BBT]

New52 Supes was always being challenged with insurmountable odds, and after he was beat down, he would somehow manage to come out on top. I look at much of the New52 and the draw for me was how will he overcome this or that. Then on top of that, the action was bombastic with great more realistic looking art. Supes would let lose and fight for what he thought was right. He didn't always make the "right" decision and had to learn from it. He wasn't worried about Lois being in danger all the time.(or Jon now)

Rebirth is a complete shift. Superman his hardly being challenged at all. The focus of the books is all about the family now. I do like the twists they've had with Mxy and two Clark's, etc. but where is the real action. It seems like Superman has hardly punched anything since Rebirth. I know that's simplistic, but I like seeing Superman battle and show is true power. I'm a Supes fan so I'll continue to read, but this family dynamic has been pretty boring from an action standpoint. I also don't think Superman would let his 10 years put himself in danger becoming a superhero that young. Rebirth has become a kids book in my eyes, where New52 was geared more to my demographic.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Superman #0 is one of my favourite issue. Imo, it isn't one of the bad New52 Superman's story. I enjoyed Lodbell writing Krypton.

[Ascended]

I was going over New 52 Superman's tenure in the flagship books (Action & Superman), and I realized that there were actually more issues that I considered to be good than bad. It's in the positive just barely, but until now, I had thought there were a lot more issues I considered to be bad than good, probably because writers like Lobdell were stuck on my mind.

For the rest of you, do you prefer New 52 Superman just because of Morrison's run and/or Pak's run? I'm speaking strictly about what you thought of the quality of stories from the flagship books, so the potential you saw in New 52 Superman is not really a point of discussion here, nor is his relationship with Wonder Woman and Batman outside of the two flagship books.

For me, it was largely Morrison and Pak. I like my Superman to be a little more of an outlaw, a little rough around the edges, and I want my Superman to put the people first, rather than diplomacy. So moments where, for example, Superman ruins a first contact situation with a subterranean culture because he can't stand to see animals mistreated is exactly what I like to see. Superman plays a big picture, long game with the fate of humanity in the balance, but won't stand for abuse on any level, even when he should just sit down and ignore it. He doesnt play politics, he does what he feels is right and doesnt compromise much, if at all, even when he knows it'll bite him in the ass. I didn't get as much of that in post-Crisis as I'd have liked, especially the last decade or so of it. But Morrison and Pak both walked the razor's edge, making Superman intelligent and clever without losing his morality. And little scenes, like Clark sitting at a cafe and using his powers to save lives around him without anyone realizing it, are things that Pak really excelled at.

Lobdell knocked out some good stories, but I find with him he had a lot of cool ideas but his execution was inconsistent. Stuff like the blogger subplot was great on a conceptual level even when it wasn't the writing itself wasn't the best. It wasn't ideal but it was something I was willing to accept, what with Grounded so fresh in my mind at the time.

[MeloDet]

Yeah it was almost entirely Morrison and Pak for me. At the very least they were the ones that showed what I consider to be the potential of that interpretation. They hit on some hidden character preference that I hadn't even known I'd.

I will say though that for the most part the non-Morrison and Pak stuff was far from bad enough to outweigh the good. Even when it was really bad it wasn't enough to tarnish what Pak & Morrison had accomplished in my mind. This is especially true since sometimes even the bad writers managed to tap into whatever Morrison and Pak had found (albeit briefly).

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

Lobdell may have had some interesting ideas, but I don't think he ever pulled them off successfully. That goes for Superman #0 too.

I loathed Perez's run. While he faced many problems, and the quality of his writing would have been better had editorial been better and Morrison open with as to what Superman would be like after the T-Shirts and Jeans era, the idea behind his opening arc was terrible. Not only does it feel like a follow up to Grounded that was hastily altered to fit the New 52 reboot, but doing a "Superman appears to have gone bad" story when you're reintroducing the character is just poorly thought out.

For most of the 5th issue, you're led to believe that Superman is going around killing.

If you got to do stories like that, you do them later on. Not in the early months of a relaunch/reboot.

[darkseidpwns]

Good and bad is subjective. For instance I dont get the Pak love. Last I checked the Batman/Superman was a forgettable dreck of hit and miss stories. Superman's Joker is the only noteworthy arc.Over a span of 2 years that not good enough. His Action had 2 decent solo stories and the rest was part of terrible crossovers.
In short Pak doesn't do anything for me. 3 good stories over 3 years across 2 books is hardly an example of a stellar run.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

Good and bad is subjective.

Yes, that's been the starting point of this thread.

To see where New 52 Superman fans agree and disagree on what stories they think are good and bad.

Lokimaru thinks Superman #0 is good, while I don't. SuperCrab thinks Lobdell's run was good, while I think it's one of the worst Superman runs ever. You think Pak had less than a stellar run, but I think his Action run is one of the best Superman runs ever.