What should be done with Tim Drake when he gets back?

[KrustyKid]

Dick has always been friends with the original SuperBoy Clark but Bruce is the first to have a bromance with a Kryptonian.

I have the read some of the Robin series and Bruce was always a caring caregiver to Tim along with Alfred he was never like a dad. He's only ever acted like a "Dad" with Damian. He has always been shown to care for the boys very much but Damian is the 1st time he's acting like an actual
dad.

No Robin isn't like Batman Beyond. Batman Beyond is a permanent mantle belonging to Terry that Tim wore for sometime cos DC doesn't know where or what to do with him and his fans won't stop bitchin if they simply killed him like they clearly want do [they are not hiding it that well]

Robin is a sidekick prep role that passes from person and doesn't belong to anyone [aside from Dick who created the role] Tim just put on pants.

And if he or his fans believe that he made it his own so much that it was now his forever then you guys and Tim only have yourselves to blame for being so short sighted and stupid that you actually believed that was possible.

Did you really think that Tim would be Robin forever? Seriously?

Tim Drake is a fantastic at what he was designed to be a normal generic boy with a blank personality that fans can easily insert themselves into.

He was designed to be the perfect selfinsert Robin and that worked well but he is not a good character.
He is bland and replaceable and really brings and adds nothing. Tim is just bland there is nothing extra, dynamic or interesting about him.
Duke is the new [improved] self insert sidekick.

Why do you think Tim is struggling so much without the Robin mantle? Because he isn't a good character overall and doesn't really work outside of that role.

Damian on the other hand is such a solid character. He was better thought out and designed to be more than "just Robin". He is a more complex and rounded character designed to develop and grow and he has is already out growing being just a sidekick

He's character is better constructed and far more layered. Damian is a far more distinct and his presence adds something [like it or hate it] to the batfamily and made Robin fun .
He isn't generic or easily replaced but you are correct Damian is not classic robin because he has an actual personality but he still work in that role.

Damian is more than just Robin Tim unfortunately isn't. Tim is just Robin nothing and more. He was designed that way which was short sighted and now that it's gone it's become painful clear how basic his character really is. He is uninspiring and nondescript that's Why DC isn't bothering about him and why he can't find a new role.

I heavily disagree with most of what you said above. Tim may have started off as 'just Robin' when he was created. A fair point. But you can't tell me he didn't develop into something more from Robin to Red Robin in his first twenty years. Pre-52 wise, Tim was far different then what he started off as. Far from bland, even if he may have started that way. Whether you liked his development or not you can't say he didn't develop over time as you seem to be implying. Tim had something going for him, unfortunately we won't ever know what that would have amounted to since the New-52 happened. To say he can't work outside of being Batman's sidekick is something I disagree with, he was doing that as Red Robin Pre-52, and had a decent following during that time.

Either way, that's all in the past. We'll have to see what they do with his character going forward.

[KrustyKid]

Attachment 46923

Doflamingo from One Piece has proved that you can look fabulous in feathers and be a badass at the same time.

Doffy is awesome

[dietrich]

I see what you're saying, I do, and you have some good points, but Tim NOT just Robin. In the Red Robin solo, which I believe you said you've read, he proved this. Only problem was that two years in, the book was shut down, and we got FakeTim, who's nothing like Tim AT ALL.

DC isn't having a hard time figuring out what to do with him; he's presumably gonna be a major part of Rebirth.

Once he's eventually back in action, he'll hopefully be a part of YJ again, and headlining a book with a detective angle, since that IS something that could separate Tim's book from Dick's, and it would fit his character.

And, just because I sometimes feel the need to remind people of this when I defend him: Tim isn't my favorite Robin. Steph is, with Damian as a close second.

Oh, and explain how Duke has more personality than Tim please. Cause THAT I don't see at all.

And in all those he is just still robin mode activated and in Red Robin I give him some credit he should something extra something crazy and at that was something. Though he wasn't really Tim in that series he was written as Batman wanna be not as Tim drake in that series so maybe that's why he was mildly interesting.

Duke is cheekier, more headstrong and more likeable.

I am glad that you have so much belief in DC and what they say I sure hope they never let you down but their actions say otherwise. in fact their actions say they would like to wipe him from history and they don't give two f**s if a writer f**ks him up and buchter's his character.

[Lady Nightwing]

Dick wasn't Bruce son, Bruce was Dick's ward. Tim actually became his son and Bruce acted that way towards him.

Jason was the first to be adopted. I'm pretty sure dick was adopted next though, he was an adult at the time. Then Tim.

[Assam]

Jason was the first to be adopted. I'm pretty sure dick was adopted next though, he was an adult at the time. Then Tim.

When were Dick and Jason EVER adopted?

Far as I remember Tim and Cass were the only ones he legally adopted.

[dietrich]

I heavily disagree with most of what you said above. Tim may have started off as 'just Robin' when he was created. A fair point. But you can't tell me he didn't develop into something more from Robin to Red Robin in his first twenty years. Pre-52 wise, Tim was far different then what he started off as. Far from bland, even if he may have started that way. Whether you liked his development or not you can't say he didn't develop over time as you seem to be implying. Tim had something going for him, unfortunately we won't ever know what that would have amounted to since the New-52 happened. To say he can't work outside of being Batman's sidekick is something I disagree with, he was doing that as Red Robin Pre-52, and had a decent following during that time.

Either way, that's all in the past. We'll have to see what they do with his character going forward.

Then why do we have so many threads like this?
The fact that we are discussing this proves that Tim hasn't managed to move on from Robin. It's been 10 years man. Red Robin he wasn't really Tim is was very much oOC more batman and more unhinged. The guy in Red Robin can't come back because that Tim was a result of the psychological trauma Tim dealing with with the lose of Bruce. Once Bruce came back things normalised and hat guy was gone he can't be that guy all the time because that is not really Tim Drake.

And yet here we are. Tim's back in Gotham still kind of a spare sidekick to batman having failed to find a role in the DCU.
I never said anything about Tim not learning new things. Sure he learn and he has changed from who he was initially but always within the confines of Batman Sidekick. He learnt how sidekick better.

[Godlike13]

When were Dick and Jason EVER adopted?

Far as I remember Tim and Cass were the only ones he legally adopted.

Jasons adoption goes back all the way to pre-crisis, and Dick was officially adopted in the early 2000s.

[KrustyKid]

Then why do we have so many threads like this?
The fact that we are discussing this proves that Tim hasn't managed to move on from Robin. It's been 10 years man. Red Robin he wasn't really Tim is was very much oOC more batman and more unhinged. The guy in Red Robin can't come back because that Tim was a result of the psychological trauma Tim dealing with with the lose of Bruce. Once Bruce came back things normalised and hat guy was gone he can't be that guy all the time because that is not really Tim Drake.

And yet here we are. Tim's back in Gotham still kind of a spare sidekick to batman having failed to find a role in the DCU.
I never said anything about Tim not learning new things. Sure he learn and he has changed from who he was initially but always within the confines of Batman Sidekick. He learnt how sidekick better.

We're only having these threads because of what the New-52 has done to Tim. Agreed, Tim has been regressed to a backup sidekick with the New-52.

Tim was not OOC Pre-52, progression led him to that point. Now if Tim had been acting how he was pre-52 and operating as he was without any real reason I'd agree. Of course he felt like Batman to a degree, he was trained by the guy. There's going to be some Batman in all of the boys to a degree in the way they operate. You see it with Dick and even Damian, Nothing new there. It's only natural their mentor would rub off on them, more so for others in some cases.

I don't get your last point. He learned how to sidekick better? Tim was no longer working at Batman's side and was crime fighting more on a global scale. So that's another point I disagree on(pre-52 wise).

We never really got to see what Tim could have become because of the reboot. Bad direction and bad writing has plagued his character for the past five years. He wasn't even really part of the Bat Family until recently if we're going to be honest.

[Aahz]

Jasons adoption goes back all the way to pre-crisis, and Dick was officially adopted in the early 2000s.

Bruce adopted Jason after the thing with Nocturna, it was iirc mentioned during the Teen Titans issue where Donna and Terry married, and was iirc still canon post crisis.

Dick was adopted in Gotham Knights #17. Tim in the beginning of One Year Later, and Cass adoption wasn't confirmed Till after R.I.P..

[dietrich]

We're only having these threads because of what the New-52 has done to Tim. Agreed, Tim has been regressed to a backup sidekick with the New-52.

Tim was not OOC Pre-52, progression led him to that point. Now if Tim had been acting how he was pre-52 and operating as he was without any real reason I'd agree. Of course he felt like Batman to a degree, he was trained by the guy. There's going to be some Batman in all of the boys to a degree in the way they operate. You see it with Dick and even Damian, Nothing new there. It's only natural their mentor would rub off on them, more so for others in some cases.

I don't get your last point. He learned how to sidekick better? Tim was no longer working at Batman's side and was crime fighting more on a global scale. So that's another point I disagree on(pre-52 wise).

We never really got to see what Tim could have become because of the reboot. Bad direction and bad writing has plagued his character for the past five years. He wasn't even really part of the Bat Family until recently if we're going to be honest.

That person in Red Robin was still kinda working for Batman he was still a sidekick in the RR solo. A rouge or renegade sidekick but still a sidekick also that wasn't really Tim. That was Tim on speed. He was on the fringes of sanity.

Incidentally people complain about current Tim but I think he has more a personality and is more interesting than the original

[DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy]

Bruce adopted Jason after the thing with Nocturna, it was iirc mentioned during the Teen Titans issue where Donna and Terry married, and was iirc still canon post crisis.

Dick was adopted in Gotham Knights #17. Tim in the beginning of One Year Later, and Cass adoption wasn't confirmed Till after R.I.P..

Dick's adoption is more complex because of how things changed in his backstory in the 90's compared to the 40's to early 80's. Having a Ward in the 40's was the equivalent of getting adopted and there were many stories where Bruce's guardianship was challenged.

[Atlanta96]

And in all those he is just still robin mode activated and in Red Robin I give him some credit he should something extra something crazy and at that was something. Though he wasn't really Tim in that series he was written as Batman wanna be not as Tim drake in that series so maybe that's why he was mildly interesting.

Duke is cheekier, more headstrong and more likeable.

Oh yeah, Tim was never any of those things.
IMG_9315.jpg

Since you spend so much time analyzing and criticizing Tim, maybe you should try actually reading his stories. At least I read most of Duke and Harper's stories before I strarted bashing them.

[KrustyKid]

That person in Red Robin was still kinda working for Batman he was still a sidekick in the RR solo. A rouge or renegade sidekick but still a sidekick also that wasn't really Tim. That was Tim on speed. He was on the fringes of sanity.

Incidentally people complain about current Tim but I think he has more a personality and is more interesting than the original

How was he working for Bruce anymore than Damian and Dick were? Bruce wasn't instructing him on how to go about his business, Tim had his own agenda to follow.

To answer the second, at least Pre-52 Tim had a reason for acting the way he was(through several trials that lead him close to the edge). It was a transition moment in his life, eventually I believe he would have leveled back down, we'll never know though. The problem many people had with New-52 Tim was the way he acted(heightened arrogance, and less caring for those around him), without any buildup for why it was that way. It was just given, as if that was a core element of the character. That does not however include Rebirth Tim whose personality seems better fitted for most would expect(which I too like).

[Assam]

Oh yeah, Tim was never any of those things.
IMG_9315.jpg

Since you spend so much time analyzing and criticizing Tim, maybe you should try actually reading his stories. At least I read most of Duke and Harper's stories before I strarted bashing them.

While I don't know specifically what he has and hasn't read, from my talks with him, Dietrich HAS read plenty of Tim stuff.

The problem is that since Tim, let's face it, WAS INITIALLY created as someone for 90's comic fans to see themselves in, despite how he'd go on to develop. As such, Tim has been written in A LOT of ways, and your interpretation of his character honestly comes down to which stories you've read.

In my case, despite still liking Dixon's run, my favorite takes on Tim are the conflicted friend from his time with Young Justice, as well as the obsessed genius from early Red Robin.

[Atlanta96]

While I don't know specifically what he has and hasn't read, from my talks with him, Dietrich HAS read plenty of Tim stuff.

The problem is that since Tim, let's face it, WAS INITIALLY created as someone for 90's comic fans to see themselves in, despite how he'd go on to develop. As such, Tim has been written in A LOT of ways, and your interpretation of his character honestly comes down to which stories you've read.

In my case, despite still liking Dixon's run, my favorite takes on Tim are the conflicted friend from his time with Young Justice, as well as the obsessed genius from early Red Robin.

He was absolutely meant for readers to connect to in the 90s, but that didn't make him a blank slate. He was always a cerebral kid, who had to push his physical and mental limits to win his battles. He was a planner, a schemer, and a self confident prodigy. He was certainly more humble and introverted than the previous Robins, but he had an awkward sense of humor and a strong sense of idealism that made him a defined character.

So in conclusion, was he a reader insert? Yes. Was he bland? Hell no!