So that's it for the New 52.

[HsssH]

I think that some people, including me, liked new52 Superman because he was "simple". He lacked messed up continuity that is now back in force. I also don't mind Jon, I like Super Sons, but this whole continuity shake up hurts my head and I'll just continue ignoring main Superman books while picking up stuff like Super Sons and New Super-Man that, hopefully, will ignore most of this continuity "fixing" that is going around again.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Damien was never intended to last, Grant Morrison's desire was to kill him off. He got his wish, but he was brought back, Batman could'nt shake him because...guess what? Damien proved pretty damn popular with people and his return was in demand, so DC obliged.

Jon has fans too. He's proving popular. Why should he or Damien go away? Because you don't like them? Compelling argument.

The same thing can be said about new52 Superman.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

The same thing can be said about new52 Superman.

Not really.

New 52 Superman is a Superman, a Clark Kent/Kal-El. He's been replaced by another Superman, also a Clark Kent/Kal-El. Most of the readership doesn't care that much about which Superman they'll be reading, which is why overall sales on a issue to issue basis are almost identical when it comes to how the Rebirth flagship books are doing compared to the New 52.

Damian is a specific character. Killing him off means people are left without Damian, because while other characters can take over as Robin, they aren't Damian Wayne.

[adrikito]

That Morrison.. If you want Damian death make a drawing of him death(for you), like the rest of Anti-Damian..

I remember the case of Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain absence...

I was new in DC Comics and the old fans wanted his return(batman eternal was one of the first comics that I read).. I can be grateful to you in this case.

The old Jay Garrick seems a great character too.. The first flash..

Although, after several alterations of the universe(flahspoint, post-flashpoint, rebirth) I left the speedster world and events for now.. After rebirth, I will not have to put chaotic things in my mind..

[spirit2011]

This is a very good way of putting it. While I am not against Lois and Clark marrying per say, I think periodic reboots back to essential formula of a single Clark who loves Lois and a single Lois who loves Superman are good for the franchise.

I also think the romance with WW made sense. I am not saying that at the expense of Lois, but imagine yourself as Clark Kent for a moment. Lois Lane won't date you despite your overtures, she's always dating and sometimes engaged to someone else. Even if you could get her to date you, you'd be afraid for her well being, that someone could come after her to get to you, and your protectiveness towards her overcomes your desire to be with her in that respect sometimes. So, with all that going on, you've got this beautiful woman, often portrayed as one of the most beautiful in the world (Although opinions vary), who is herself a superhero who becomes available and understands exactly what you go through and can protect herself, and you've got a mutual pact to put saving the world before your relationship. Makes total sense that he'd try dating Diana. It also makes total sense that in the end he might find that he loves Lois more. I don't see anything wrong with playing with that dynamic when you've got a single Clark Kent.

By the way, anyone see the Doctor Who episode that was a sendup of the traditional Superman/Clark Kent/Lois Lane love triange? Pretty funny stuff.

This is so static on time and poor showing for the characters. That is why it is bury on the past, even MOS went straight to the point

[The Nuke]

No, it just means now that the NU52 is part of the Pre-52. Which was the idea of Rebirth anyway, now solidified as part of the story and official.

The NU52 and Pre-52 characters have been combined. The Pre-52 stories and the past of those characters have happened, more or less, and the NU52 count as being part of their lives.

That's it. Over time, yes, nobody will be mentioning NU52 or Pre-52. They'll just consider everything from 1986(and before in a lot of cases) to be all one big continuity.

this should make everyone on both sides happy, save fore continuity haters.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Not really.

New 52 Superman is a Superman, a Clark Kent/Kal-El. He's been replaced by another Superman, also a Clark Kent/Kal-El. Most of the readership doesn't care that much about which Superman they'll be reading, which is why overall sales on a issue to issue basis are almost identical when it comes to how the Rebirth flagship books are doing compared to the New 52.

Damian is a specific character. Killing him off means people are left without Damian, because while other characters can take over as Robin, they aren't Damian Wayne.

When we talk about general readership, you are right. When it comes down to the fans, then yes. What I said can be said. Hell, there are arguments to this day (and there will be as long as there's any version of the character out there, in any form of media) about which version of Superman is superior.

[superduperman]

I think that some people, including me, liked new52 Superman because he was "simple". He lacked messed up continuity that is now back in force. I also don't mind Jon, I like Super Sons, but this whole continuity shake up hurts my head and I'll just continue ignoring main Superman books while picking up stuff like Super Sons and New Super-Man that, hopefully, will ignore most of this continuity "fixing" that is going around again.

This is how I feel. I don't mind Jon. Superman having a kid is a fine idea since most comic readers now are old enough to be dads anyway. And they do seem to be doing some good stuff with the kid. But it's the simplicity that got me attached to New 52 to begin with and to see that thrown out is what bothers me the most.

[manofsteel1979]

This is how I feel. I don't mind Jon. Superman having a kid is a fine idea since most comic readers now are old enough to be dads anyway. And they do seem to be doing some good stuff with the kid. But it's the simplicity that got me attached to New 52 to begin with and to see that thrown out is what bothers me the most.

On one hand it was simple as far as getting rid of the multiple choice origin for Superman,but on the other it had eliminated any sort of real canon for Superman beyond the New Origin. If the entire DCU was brought to ground zero and everything was rebooted to the degree Supes was,they could have logically moved forward on building a new canon, but they didn't. They cheated, did this nebulous 5 year timeline and that was that, and there was no attempt to show us what happened in those 5 years. Almost everything rang hollow because there was no context. I mean,the concept of Truth should have been a big deal and milestone. It was just one big yawn because with few exceptions I still had little idea who this Superman was, who this Lois Lane was, what experiences led them to the moment where Lois revealed Supes identity to save him. It should have been a holy sh*t moment. Instead I was like, " why should I care? " . I think it was the realization I really couldn't give a damn about Superman anymore that drove me away until the rumblings of Rebirth brought me back.

I'm against reboots for Superman in general, Because in every case the universe around him isn't ever rebooted to the same degree. As far as I'm concerned, if Batman's continiuity and canon are immutable and can't be erased, neither should Superman's. Yes, Batman got some major retcons here and there, but his general canon existed giving his stories context. Supes didn't, and there was no interest in building him a new canon, and I doubt they ever would have.

Looking back, this is what Nuperman felt like for me.:

" here's the new origin! Here's the new suit! We're now fast forwarding 5 years! A lot of stuff happened the same as before but not really because we don't know ourselves so we aren't going to tell you what, but the important thing is he's no longer married to that boring hag Lois Lane and now he's soon gonna be boning Wonder Woman! How kewl is that! Sure we could show you why he isn't with Lois and how that relationship differs from before, and why and how his relationship with this version of Wonder Woman blossom, but we don't care, we just a are going to make it happen because it sounds kewl ! Oh and he and Lex gave each other scars once. But who cares about any of that? Its Superman and Lex Luthor! They hate each other and that's all you need to know! Look! Here's the first of about a dozen loud crossovers to distract from the fact we don't know what the hell we're doing! Oh and when we do attract new Creators with new voices that want to build things, we will bog them down in endless crossovers or rewrite full scripts without their input until they run screaming! ( Bye Perez Pak, Diggle and Yang!) Buy our books! He's Superman! Love him!"

I don't like convoluted çontiniuity and multiple choice origins either, but I hate the feeling of apathy even more. If I can care about the characters I can overlook the minutae more easily.

[bat39]

On one hand it was simple as far as getting rid of the multiple choice origin for Superman,but on the other it had eliminated any sort of real canon for Superman beyond the New Origin. If the entire DCU was brought to ground zero and everything was rebooted to the degree Supes was,they could have logically moved forward on building a new canon, but they didn't. They cheated, did this nebulous 5 year timeline and that was that, and there was no attempt to show us what happened in those 5 years. Almost everything rang hollow because there was no context. I mean,the concept of Truth should have been a big deal and milestone. It was just one big yawn because with few exceptions I still had little idea who this Superman was, who this Lois Lane was, what experiences led them to the moment where Lois revealed Supes identity to save him. It should have been a holy sh*t moment. Instead I was like, " why should I care? " . I think it was the realization I really couldn't give a damn about Superman anymore that drove me away until the rumblings of Rebirth brought me back.

I'm against reboots for Superman in general, Because in every case the universe around him isn't ever rebooted to the same degree. As far as I'm concerned, if Batman's continiuity and canon are immutable and can't be erased, neither should Superman's. Yes, Batman got some major retcons here and there, but his general canon existed giving his stories context. Supes didn't, and there was no interest in building him a new canon, and I doubt they ever would have.

Looking back, this is what Nuperman felt like for me.:

" here's the new origin! Here's the new suit! We're now fast forwarding 5 years! A lot of stuff happened the same as before but not really because we don't know ourselves so we aren't going to tell you what, but the important thing is he's no longer married to that boring hag Lois Lane and now he's soon gonna be boning Wonder Woman! How kewl is that! Sure we could show you why he isn't with Lois and how that relationship differs from before, and why and how his relationship with this version of Wonder Woman blossom, but we don't care, we just a are going to make it happen because it sounds kewl ! Oh and he and Lex gave each other scars once. But who cares about any of that? Its Superman and Lex Luthor! They hate each other and that's all you need to know! Look! Here's the first of about a dozen loud crossovers to distract from the fact we don't know what the hell we're doing! Oh and when we do attract new Creators with new voices that want to build things, we will bog them down in endless crossovers or rewrite full scripts without their input until they run screaming! ( Bye Perez Pak, Diggle and Yang!) Buy our books! He's Superman! Love him!"

I don't like convoluted çontiniuity and multiple choice origins either, but I hate the feeling of apathy even more. If I can care about the characters I can overlook the minutae more easily.

This.

*10char

[Miles To Go]

I think that some people, including me, liked new52 Superman because he was "simple". He lacked messed up continuity that is now back in force. I also don't mind Jon, I like Super Sons, but this whole continuity shake up hurts my head and I'll just continue ignoring main Superman books

A pity, you're missing out on some quality books, all of which have characters strengthened by continuity.

[superduperman]

On one hand it was simple as far as getting rid of the multiple choice origin for Superman,but on the other it had eliminated any sort of real canon for Superman beyond the New Origin. If the entire DCU was brought to ground zero and everything was rebooted to the degree Supes was,they could have logically moved forward on building a new canon, but they didn't. They cheated, did this nebulous 5 year timeline and that was that, and there was no attempt to show us what happened in those 5 years. Almost everything rang hollow because there was no context. I mean,the concept of Truth should have been a big deal and milestone. It was just one big yawn because with few exceptions I still had little idea who this Superman was, who this Lois Lane was, what experiences led them to the moment where Lois revealed Supes identity to save him. It should have been a holy sh*t moment. Instead I was like, " why should I care? " . I think it was the realization I really couldn't give a damn about Superman anymore that drove me away until the rumblings of Rebirth brought me back.

I'm against reboots for Superman in general, Because in every case the universe around him isn't ever rebooted to the same degree. As far as I'm concerned, if Batman's continiuity and canon are immutable and can't be erased, neither should Superman's. Yes, Batman got some major retcons here and there, but his general canon existed giving his stories context. Supes didn't, and there was no interest in building him a new canon, and I doubt they ever would have.

Looking back, this is what Nuperman felt like for me.:

" here's the new origin! Here's the new suit! We're now fast forwarding 5 years! A lot of stuff happened the same as before but not really because we don't know ourselves so we aren't going to tell you what, but the important thing is he's no longer married to that boring hag Lois Lane and now he's soon gonna be boning Wonder Woman! How kewl is that! Sure we could show you why he isn't with Lois and how that relationship differs from before, and why and how his relationship with this version of Wonder Woman blossom, but we don't care, we just a are going to make it happen because it sounds kewl ! Oh and he and Lex gave each other scars once. But who cares about any of that? Its Superman and Lex Luthor! They hate each other and that's all you need to know! Look! Here's the first of about a dozen loud crossovers to distract from the fact we don't know what the hell we're doing! Oh and when we do attract new Creators with new voices that want to build things, we will bog them down in endless crossovers or rewrite full scripts without their input until they run screaming! ( Bye Perez Pak, Diggle and Yang!) Buy our books! He's Superman! Love him!"

I don't like convoluted çontiniuity and multiple choice origins either, but I hate the feeling of apathy even more. If I can care about the characters I can overlook the minutae more easily.

I completely agree. The whole letting Batman and Green Lantern keep some of their history while everyone else got a hard reboot really did bother me. It's obvious who their favorites are. And it really did look like a lot of this was just sort of slapped together at the last minute (Teen Titans, anyone?). I wouldn't mind seeing a 12 year old Dick Grayson take up the mantle of Robin for the first time. That would be interesting. There were definitely some mistakes made, no question. I'm also against reboots simply because 1) They are a hassle for everyone involved and 2) Something that you love is going to get thrown out one way or another. The post-Crisis universe alone created a whole slew of problems for the rest of the DCU and they threw out a lot of stuff I liked. A perfect example of not filling in the blanks that never went addressed was his death. Supposedly he died at the hands of Doomsday in this universe. Lois even described what that day was like but when I read that my first thought was "Why bother even keeping that?" There's no way it went down the way we saw in the comics so why not just remove that aspect of his history as well? If the marriage is expendable, why isn't his death?

I think part of the problem and what may have killed the New 52 eventually anyway was they were being too experimental with things. Even if some fans were onboard for the reboot in 2011, the assumption was that he and Lois would eventually get back together anyway. That the status quo would eventually be restored. They never made steps in that direction. I think that bothered a lot of people that even the most basic elements would never be restored. The crossovers were bad but the belief that the marriage is over for good really alienated a lot of old fans who honestly gave the books a chance and felt betrayed. There were also a lot of elements from the Morrison run that were never picked up again. For five years! Mxy was right when he said that Superman had forgotten about him, because so had everyone else.

[gwangung]

On one hand it was simple as far as getting rid of the multiple choice origin for Superman,but on the other it had eliminated any sort of real canon for Superman beyond the New Origin. If the entire DCU was brought to ground zero and everything was rebooted to the degree Supes was,they could have logically moved forward on building a new canon, but they didn't. They cheated, did this nebulous 5 year timeline and that was that, and there was no attempt to show us what happened in those 5 years. Almost everything rang hollow because there was no context. I mean,the concept of Truth should have been a big deal and milestone. It was just one big yawn because with few exceptions I still had little idea who this Superman was, who this Lois Lane was, what experiences led them to the moment where Lois revealed Supes identity to save him. It should have been a holy sh*t moment. Instead I was like, " why should I care? " . I think it was the realization I really couldn't give a damn about Superman anymore that drove me away until the rumblings of Rebirth brought me back.

I'm against reboots for Superman in general, Because in every case the universe around him isn't ever rebooted to the same degree. As far as I'm concerned, if Batman's continiuity and canon are immutable and can't be erased, neither should Superman's. Yes, Batman got some major retcons here and there, but his general canon existed giving his stories context. Supes didn't, and there was no interest in building him a new canon, and I doubt they ever would have.

Looking back, this is what Nuperman felt like for me.:

" here's the new origin! Here's the new suit! We're now fast forwarding 5 years! A lot of stuff happened the same as before but not really because we don't know ourselves so we aren't going to tell you what, but the important thing is he's no longer married to that boring hag Lois Lane and now he's soon gonna be boning Wonder Woman! How kewl is that! Sure we could show you why he isn't with Lois and how that relationship differs from before, and why and how his relationship with this version of Wonder Woman blossom, but we don't care, we just a are going to make it happen because it sounds kewl ! Oh and he and Lex gave each other scars once. But who cares about any of that? Its Superman and Lex Luthor! They hate each other and that's all you need to know! Look! Here's the first of about a dozen loud crossovers to distract from the fact we don't know what the hell we're doing! Oh and when we do attract new Creators with new voices that want to build things, we will bog them down in endless crossovers or rewrite full scripts without their input until they run screaming! ( Bye Perez Pak, Diggle and Yang!) Buy our books! He's Superman! Love him!"

I don't like convoluted çontiniuity and multiple choice origins either, but I hate the feeling of apathy even more. If I can care about the characters I can overlook the minutae more easily.

As far as I'm concerned, it's all in canon. If there are continuity problems, it's there because there've been multiple hands messing with Superman's history throughout all his existence---but he persists because history needs a Superman. Anamolies exist because of this tampering.

It works both in-universe and meta-texturally, so it's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Frontino]

Imagine if Warner made a movie about Routh's Superman with his kid coming in the current movie timeline and merged with Cavill's Superman (but retained Routh's look). That's what I honestly see DC doing in its magazines (I refuse to call comic book what isn't comic at all). It's completely foolish to replace a Superman that doesn't sell with a Superman that sold even less. If the New52 one was a failure don't bring back the Post-Crisis one. Create another version like Warner would do if Cavill's next movie bombed.

[Miles To Go]

It's completely foolish to replace a Superman that doesn't sell with a Superman that sold even less.

The post-crisis one has been selling well since taking over. So much for foolhardiness.