View Poll Results: Should "Loving Submission" return?

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  1. #1
    Been lurking since '08 Marik Swift's Avatar
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    Default "Loving Submission" - Yay or Nay

    How do you feel about Marston's philosophy of "Loving Submission" being reintegrated as a central aspect of Wonder Woman's character.

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    Personally, I'm all for it. I feel like Diana should be the most beloved character within the DCU. Superman & other heroes have their heads so high in the clouds and doesn't understand the powerless felt by the everyday man. Wonder Woman should be that hero who is willing to submit herself to anyone she sees redeemable to remind them that she isn't above them and is even willing to be beneath them (via submission). Combat should be an absolute last resort for her.

    With that, I would play up her empathy. She can see the good in others, the "true them", so to speak, and with her lasso she can help bring that person out of them. If she tells you someone is irredeemable, then they really aren't. Wording would be everything with her; she would submit herself to the "true" side of people, meaning only after the lasso of truth proves them to be bad would she honor the terms of her submission.
    Last edited by Marik Swift; 03-24-2017 at 03:49 PM.

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Nah. A person can discuss healthy sexual behavior without bondage kink.

  3. #3
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    This is one of those things that definitely depends on how well it's handled. Since I have 0% faith in DC editorial to have any real clue how to deal with it, and since it can go really bad really fast, it's probably for the best that they just don't go there.

  4. #4
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Lol if Grant Morrison can screw it up, I doubt many of his contemporaries or his successors would be able to execute it properly.

    "Loving submission" could work as an euphemism for taking the higher road and rejecting the "eye for an eye" wasteful philosophy.

  5. #5
    Been lurking since '08 Marik Swift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Lol if Grant Morrison can screw it up, I doubt many of his contemporaries or his successors would be able to execute it properly.

    "Loving submission" could work as an euphemism for taking the higher road and rejecting the "eye for an eye" wasteful philosophy.
    In what way did Morrison screw it up, in your opinion? I know many people didn't like the overall story, because they don't agree with Marston's take on the character, but as for the Loving Submission bits itself, I've seen no legitimate complaints addressed to it specifically.

  6. #6
    Incredible Member Joao's Avatar
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    There are better ways than "submission" to show that Diana is not above regular people.

    Except if you consider things like this as loving submission, which I don't:


  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marik Swift View Post
    In what way did Morrison screw it up, in your opinion? I know many people didn't like the overall story, because they don't agree with Marston's take on the character, but as for the Loving Submission bits itself, I've seen no legitimate complaints addressed to it specifically.
    I will never understand people who don't like Marston's take on his own creation. I just don't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I want it back. It shouldn't be present in every story, and it needs to be handled a certain way to work, but it's not worth getting rid of it. I don't like the idea of kink shaming Wonder Woman. I read one defense of Earth One that said something along the lines of "censoring or sanitizing a woman's sexuality for something more 'pure' is every bit as sexist as going over the top with the cheesecake" and I have to agree. It's one aspect of the whole that is Diana. Diana's a regal princess, a peace seeking diplomat, a badass warrior who is the best melee fighter in the DCU, compassionate to her enemies, and is kinky, fun and experimental in the bedroom with other consenting adults. I don't want any of those to go away.
    Me neither. More interesting layers need to be added to the character, not less.

  8. #8
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I want it back. It shouldn't be present in every story, and it needs to be handled a certain way to work, but it's not worth getting rid of it. I don't like the idea of kink shaming Wonder Woman. I read one defense of Earth One that said something along the lines of "censoring or sanitizing a woman's sexuality for something more 'pure' is every bit as sexist as going over the top with the cheesecake" and I have to agree. It's one aspect of the whole that is Diana. Diana's a regal princess, a peace seeking diplomat, a badass warrior who is the best melee fighter in the DCU, compassionate to her enemies, and is kinky, fun and experimental in the bedroom with other consenting adults. I don't want any of those to go away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    "Loving submission" could work as an euphemism for taking the higher road and rejecting the "eye for an eye" wasteful philosophy.
    The term could take on multiple meanings. Diana likes bondage play during sex, or giving herself over to a higher cause. It works for both.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I want it back. It shouldn't be present in every story, and it needs to be handled a certain way to work, but it's not worth getting rid of it. I don't like the idea of kink shaming Wonder Woman. I read one defense of Earth One that said something along the lines of "censoring or sanitizing a woman's sexuality for something more 'pure' is every bit as sexist as going over the top with the cheesecake" and I have to agree. It's one aspect of the whole that is Diana. Diana's a regal princess, a peace seeking diplomat, a badass warrior who is the best melee fighter in the DCU, compassionate to her enemies, and is kinky, fun and experimental in the bedroom with other consenting adults. I don't want any of those to go away.



    The term could take on multiple meanings. Diana likes bondage play during sex, or giving herself over to a higher cause. It works for both.
    Totally, totally agree.

    I'm not sure this would ever make it into a DC comic, but I always imagine that some of her crazier foes are in the villainy game for psychosexual reasons. And Diana has agreed to some rules with them so that they are channelling their urges into less harmful channels. That includes the "being helpless when bound" meme, and she plays strictly by those rules (but just for those people). She's very sympathetic to them, and her "play" with them is a way to guide them back to the light. (And I suspect a lot of these foes are the ones that reform and become less antisocial).

    (ETA: Oh, yes, she's definitely adventuresome in the bedroom with other consenting adults....)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I want it back. It shouldn't be present in every story, and it needs to be handled a certain way to work, but it's not worth getting rid of it. I don't like the idea of kink shaming Wonder Woman. I read one defense of Earth One that said something along the lines of "censoring or sanitizing a woman's sexuality for something more 'pure' is every bit as sexist as going over the top with the cheesecake" and I have to agree. It's one aspect of the whole that is Diana. Diana's a regal princess, a peace seeking diplomat, a badass warrior who is the best melee fighter in the DCU, compassionate to her enemies, and is kinky, fun and experimental in the bedroom with other consenting adults. I don't want any of those to go away.

    The term could take on multiple meanings. Diana likes bondage play during sex, or giving herself over to a higher cause. It works for both.
    I have a hard time really seeing it as sexist for the simple reason that I don't care to know anything about Superman's sex life either. These are superhero comics - super heroics is why I buy them. More important, I can't name three people working for either DC or Marvel that could do this well.

    Do you really trust DiDio/DC to manage this when they can't even manage any other aspect of WW's world?

  11. #11
    Mighty Member Thor2014's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Nah. A person can discuss healthy sexual behavior without bondage kink.
    They can, but it's not as fun.

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