Why Marvel Sales are down - Per the VP of Sales

[TheStrongestOne]

An excerpt from https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/03...le-characters/

A lot of people scoffed at Bleeding Cool’s reports as spin or rumormongering, but in a recent interview with ICv2, Marvel VP of Sales David Gabriel is blunt with his assessment of a Marvel sales slump that began last October. The reason given by Gabriel: people are “turning their noses up” at diversity.

From the interview:

Part of it, but I think also it seemed like tastes changed, because stuff you had been doing in the past wasn’t working the same way. Did you perceive that or are we misreading that?

"No, I think so. I don’t know if those customers with the tastes that had been around for three years really supporting nearly anything that we would try, anything that we would attempt, any of the new characters we brought up, either they weren’t shopping in that time period, or maybe like you said their tastes have changed.

There was definitely a sort of nose-turning at the things that we had been doing successfully for the past three years, no longer viable. We saw that, and that’s what we had to react to. Yes, it’s all of that."

Now the million-dollar question. Why did those tastes change?

"I don’t know if that’s a question for me. I think that’s a better question for retailers who are seeing all publishers. What we heard was that people didn’t want any more diversity. They didn’t want female characters out there. That’s what we heard, whether we believe that or not. I don’t know that that’s really true, but that’s what we saw in sales.

We saw the sales of any character that was diverse, any character that was new, our female characters, anything that was not a core Marvel character, people were turning their nose up against. That was difficult for us because we had a lot of fresh, new, exciting ideas that we were trying to get out and nothing new really worked.

It was the old things coming back in that time period, three books in particular, Spider-Man Renew Your Vows, that had Spider-Man and Mary Jane married, that worked. The Venom book worked and the Thanos book worked. You can take what you want out of who might be enjoying those three books, but it is definitely a specific type of comic book reader, comic book collector that really liked those three series."

[gurkle]

People in the entertainment business sure are quick to blame the audience when something doesn't sell. It's not like the books that failed were such great books (no offense to people who liked them).

Anyway, if the new readers Marvel got in the last few years haven't stayed with comics - which seems to be what he's saying - I think that's genuinely too bad. There was some hope that books like Ms. Marvel had brought a new influx of comics readers to freshen up the aging reader base.

Maybe Marvel didn't make the right decisions when it came to keeping them around; maybe they were too focused on changing things up (when even new readers tend to prefer the old characters); maybe a stronger X-Men line (traditionally the Marvel line that appeals most to new readers from diverse backgrounds) would have helped. Lots of what ifs in there. But while there's nothing wrong with meat-and-potatoes comics for the loyal readers, comics really do need new loyal readers and how to get them and keep them is the biggest challenge the business will have to face if it's to survive.

[JKtheMac]

An excerpt from https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/03...le-characters/

A lot of people scoffed at Bleeding Cool’s reports as spin or rumormongering, but in a recent interview with ICv2, Marvel VP of Sales David Gabriel is blunt with his assessment of a Marvel sales slump that began last October. The reason given by Gabriel: people are “turning their noses up” at diversity.

From the interview:

Part of it, but I think also it seemed like tastes changed, because stuff you had been doing in the past wasn’t working the same way. Did you perceive that or are we misreading that?

"No, I think so. I don’t know if those customers with the tastes that had been around for three years really supporting nearly anything that we would try, anything that we would attempt, any of the new characters we brought up, either they weren’t shopping in that time period, or maybe like you said their tastes have changed.

There was definitely a sort of nose-turning at the things that we had been doing successfully for the past three years, no longer viable. We saw that, and that’s what we had to react to. Yes, it’s all of that."

Now the million-dollar question. Why did those tastes change?

"I don’t know if that’s a question for me. I think that’s a better question for retailers who are seeing all publishers. What we heard was that people didn’t want any more diversity. They didn’t want female characters out there. That’s what we heard, whether we believe that or not. I don’t know that that’s really true, but that’s what we saw in sales.

We saw the sales of any character that was diverse, any character that was new, our female characters, anything that was not a core Marvel character, people were turning their nose up against. That was difficult for us because we had a lot of fresh, new, exciting ideas that we were trying to get out and nothing new really worked.

It was the old things coming back in that time period, three books in particular, Spider-Man Renew Your Vows, that had Spider-Man and Mary Jane married, that worked. The Venom book worked and the Thanos book worked. You can take what you want out of who might be enjoying those three books, but it is definitely a specific type of comic book reader, comic book collector that really liked those three series."

You will note from this that he is slightly skeptical of the reasons put forward and although he cites diversity he is specifically calling out female led books as the poor selling titles and yet female led books are not universally poor sellers. Some are their highest sellers. And singling out RYV and Thanos as successful sounds like obfuscation designed to placate a specific demographic.

This is marketing spin. A "we hear you" without being particularly specific and without giving any real detail or data. We will see what actually transpires but it is unlikely to be a complete U-turn.

[leo619]

You will note from this that he is slightly skeptical of the reasons put forward and although he cites diversity he is specifically calling out female led books as the poor selling titles and yet female led books are not universally poor sellers. Some are their highest sellers. And singling out RYV and Thanos as successful sounds like obfuscation designed to placate a specific demographic.

This is marketing spin. A "we hear you" without being particularly specific and without giving any real detail or data. We will see what actually transpires but it is unlikely to be a complete U-turn.

Agreed, one thing is for sure I've been picking up more books from comics since ever before, and it's almost entirely marvel. If they decided to do a 180 then that just leaves my company to fill up the void that both DC and Marvel are neglecting behind, in which I will give a certified "thank you" as I prove not only can diversity exist, but also be successful as it has and definitely in many cases continues to be.

[CIA]

You know that Marvel will throw the baby with the bathwater and use the opportunity to cut down on C-List books to focus on movie/tv-related content.

[Haquim]

You will note from this that he is slightly skeptical of the reasons put forward and although he cites diversity he is specifically calling out female led books as the poor selling titles and yet female led books are not universally poor sellers. Some are their highest sellers. And singling out RYV and Thanos as successful sounds like obfuscation designed to placate a specific demographic.

This is marketing spin. A "we hear you" without being particularly specific and without giving any real detail or data. We will see what actually transpires but it is unlikely to be a complete U-turn.

OR

You don't like what he said and want to spin the narrative your way.

[skyvolt2000]

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/03...le-characters/

Now the million-dollar question. Why did those tastes change?

I don’t know if that’s a question for me. I think that’s a better question for retailers who are seeing all publishers. What we heard was that people didn’t want any more diversity. They didn’t want female characters out there. That’s what we heard, whether we believe that or not. I don’t know that that’s really true, but that’s what we saw in sales.

We saw the sales of any character that was diverse, any character that was new, our female characters, anything that was not a core Marvel character, people were turning their nose up against. That was difficult for us because we had a lot of fresh, new, exciting ideas that we were trying to get out and nothing new really worked.

There HAD to be a nicer way of saying that.

Now are there some fans and store owners who would hate who was on the cover based on race, LGBT & females? YES.

However you can't label everybody like that.

That insulting the folks who actually tried and read the books.

There were some bad books.

There were books that got screwed over by events.

I guess he forget EBAY and other places that sell comics cheaper than the comic book store. Not my fault I got a 80 comics (not just Marvel) for $20 and that included new books that just came out. It happens.

[LordUltimus]

Typical spin doctoring. I remember them blaming DC last time.

The only thing we can take from this is that sales are definitely down, since Marvel is admitting it. There could be a totally different reason; even he gives the evasive "that's just what I heard". They'll definitely do something in the next few months, but whether it'll be smart or not is something we'll have to wait and see.

[JKtheMac]

OR

You don't like what he said and want to spin the narrative your way.

No I am trying to understand him. Comic sales are down across the board in this period, not just Marvel. Everyone has seen a dip, and they haven't all released Marvel style books. Without data his words seem like guesses. He is citing a drop in orders to comic shops and even says you would need to ask those retailers for their reasoning.

[stingray]

I'd like to read about the real Hulk, Iron Man, Wolverine etc., instead of their politically correct replacements. End of story. I grew up with the classics, and that's who I still care about. Not trying to stir anything up, that's just the way I feel.

[JKtheMac]

Why are we linking to Bleeding cool here the original interview was ICv2?

[Beaubier]

Okay... maybe I could buy the 'diversity/female led titles aren't selling' in the context of people get resentful when they see a new(er) female character using the name of their favorite male hero. Then they don't want to support the book. But that wouldn't explain a book like Mockingbird, Silk or Hellcat getting cancelled when they don't fit that category. Something else is going on, clearly.

I personally don't think Marvel markets diversity correctly. They tend to do it in a very tacky way.

[Frontier]

They mentioned Renew Your Vows .

[WaxHawk]

Okay... maybe I could buy the 'diversity/female led titles aren't selling' in the context of people get resentful when they see a new(er) female character using the name of their favorite male hero. Then they don't want to support the book. But that wouldn't explain a book like Mockingbird, Silk or Hellcat getting cancelled when they don't fit that category. Something else is going on, clearly.

I personally don't think Marvel markets diversity correctly. They tend to do it in a very tacky way.

I agree (although I'm not sure I'd use the word tacky to describe it).

[Haquim]

To add what I actually think of the reason Marvel titles aren't selling as well as before: diversity is not a big factor on sells per se, quality matters much more. You can have successful minority characters not because they are part of a minority but because they are genuinely good characters with good stories making them bigger than just some guys from a minority or another.
Characters sell when they are heroes who can overcome great adversity and villains stronger than themselves, have rich, interesting and diverse backgrounds. They sell when they are shown to be much more than just superhero #10304030 who happens to belong to a minority.
And btw, throwing out a plethora of titles without rime nor reason, weak supporting casts, weak plots and subplots, weak or NONEXISTENT antagonists isn't doing quality work and isn't going to sell.
Marvel actually did very well with Hickman and Secret Wars. The way they did exactly the opposite of what he did with his work on Shield, Fantastic Four and then Avengers is literally mind blowing.