R.I.P. Marvel's 'progressive' era, 2012-2017

[Random4]

if people think the idea of being "progressive" is simply, make every face non-white...

then that's a really American style progressivism that I don't want to be apart off, it turns the whole idea of diversity into a commodity

[Shirayuki]

Marvel isn't getting rid of their more progressive characters.

[RedWhiteAndBlueSupes]

I wonder if this includes them continuing to support and push Carol Danvers as captain marvel as their flagship female superhero in the face of struggling monthly sales...I hope so though.

probably, Carol has had a lot of fans way before the all new stuff... even if she can't keep a monthly she will still be prominent in the MCU for sure...still liked her better as Ms. Marvel though, better costume, and her as Captain Marvel makes her seem old to me.

Maybe it'll be the end of "Superior" status quo's or wacky and "all-new all different" roles for major characters, or even Marvel's event-driven storytelling (probably not) for a while.

I'd happily toast to that .

oh heck yes, from what I've read about the "Make Mine Marvel" upcoming relaunch/realignment..whatever you wanna call it, it sounds pretty good so far. The last 5 years or so have not been kind to Marvel, really, anything since "Dark Reign" has been downhill for me.

Really it's less about all the political stuff than Marvel just pulling some usual comic book gimmicks, did anybody really think that Falcon-Cap or Jane-Thor was going to be around for a decade+, of course not. It's no different than when Spidey put on the black suit or Steve Rodgers became lost his CA identity to John Walker, it was always going to come back.

Really I would say Marvel has been diverse since Monica Rambaeau or Falcon, even the original X-men. Overall this era sucked and I'm happy to see it go, I've talked to a ton of people who quit buying marvel the last few years because of these gimmicks, ultimately it's not something I want taking up space on a shelf or in a a longbox, and hey at least Marvel has a Universe to go back to unlike DC.

[Darth Phoenix]

I haven't enjoyed much of it short of X23. who should have been the only Wolverine for a while longer I think sticking in OML stole some of her time.

But we will get other pushed over time and you never know if some1 will resound over a large audince.

OOOOO and I am fond of Ms Marvel. even better than Cap Marvel right now.

[Revoirver2]

Look I be ok with marvel getting more to basic heroes and numbering again, but Yeah I don't believe any of this BS fans hating female characters, where are the so called "fans" cause on both here on CBR and in real life I have not met one of these so-called fans.

I am a man and I Love female characters, screw that to any dumping down of female heroes!

CJ you are a Man ?. I though you are a women

speakin OP are we sure Marvel will dump diversity

[Haquim]

if people think the idea of being "progressive" is simply, make every face non-white...

then that's a really American style progressivism that I don't want to be apart off, it turns the whole idea of diversity into a commodity

This.

A million times THIS.

[jackolover]

So it seems like the ‘indie’ era of Marvel comics, which arguably began with Fraction & Aja’s Hawkeye, with it’s focus on ’diversity’ which accellerated after Ms Marvel took off, looks like it’s coming to an end. At least according to this article:
marvels-david-gabriel-sales-slump-people-didnt-want-diversity-didnt-want-female-characters/

I for one am sad to hear this. As much as I’d like to see an old-school Avengers book, I’ve come to love the new characters and new directions. I think some of these current runs are among the best the characters’ have ever had.

Currently I’m buying more Marvel books than I ever have, and most of them have female or PoC leads. And that’s not because I’m some sort of ‘SJW’ zombie who only buys ‘PC’ books. It’s because the focus on new characters and directions has lead to some innovative stories and artwork.

Some books I love because they’re epic in scope (Thor, Inhumans), some because they’ve got great characterisation (Spider-Woman, Wolverine), some because they deal in genuinely complex political themes (Captain America), some because they’ve got great character interactions (Campions, A-Force), some because of their great art (Black Widow), some because they’re just plain funny (Squirrel-Girl, Hellcat, Gwenpool), and some because they’re all these things (Ms Marvel).

So I’d like to pour one out for an era where Marvel may not have set the stands on fire with sales, but where they looked to the future instead of rehashing the past for a change.

The problem with diversity characters, to my mind, is they have no relation to Marvel Continuity. Sure you can ignore that and just enjoy a good character and a good story, but there comes a time when you ask the question "what is the relevance of this character in the big picture"? For instance, Thor. She is a doctor with no connection whatsoever to Asgard, (and she is known to hate Asgard and was scared of that place),and, she's a Thundergod. The Thundergod. It makes no sense to have these buffet super heroes sprinkled around the MU as lovely new characters, when they have no relevance to the MU. You may as well form a new Emblem called PC line and put all these characters in there, because they don't fit in the story of the Marvel Universe as its been up till now. It's like someone decided to shove all the characters from another comic company into the MU. It just dilutes the beauty, and even more importantly, dirties the pool. I don't know why Marvel execs didn't notice that's what was happening.

[UltimateTy]

Its sad that people are falling for Rich Johnston's out of context clickbait headlines

I lost the little respect for the site yesterday after he dragged the people that are trying to change stuff names through the mud yesterday for the clicks.

[Kurolegacy]

Yeah, I'm genuinely surprised at the reaction.

Do people really think Marvel will roll back Ms Marvel and/or Miles Morales? Granted Marvel did go a little hard with the diversity I doubt they will abandon it completely.

Pretty much. It's all about balancing things out so you can appeal to fans both old and new and not going completely insane and getting rid of classics left and right like they've been doing the past few years.

[Shinglepants]

I certainly don't think this is the end of Marvels progressive era, whether we're talking about race/gender diversity or their "indie" vibe diversity. I just don't think they're that shortsighted.

I think they'll reconsider their approach though. Whilst I don't think too many people have a problem with he idea in theory, when they seemingly pushed diversity at the expense of guys like Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, Cap etc has agitated too much of the fan base. I also think they've seen too many books fail recently, and the throw things at the wall and see what sticks approach has run it's course.

[omegafix]

if people think the idea of being "progressive" is simply, make every face non-white...

Then that's a really american style progressivism that i don't want to be apart off, it turns the whole idea of diversity into a commodity

exactly!!!!!

[Digifiend]

probably, Carol has had a lot of fans way before the all new stuff... even if she can't keep a monthly she will still be prominent in the MCU for sure...still liked her better as Ms. Marvel though, better costume, and her as Captain Marvel makes her seem old to me.

oh heck yes, from what I've read about the "Make Mine Marvel" upcoming relaunch/realignment..whatever you wanna call it, it sounds pretty good so far. The last 5 years or so have not been kind to Marvel, really, anything since "Dark Reign" has been downhill for me.

Really it's less about all the political stuff than Marvel just pulling some usual comic book gimmicks, did anybody really think that Falcon-Cap or Jane-Thor was going to be around for a decade+, of course not. It's no different than when Spidey put on the black suit or Steve Rodgers became lost his CA identity to John Walker, it was always going to come back.

Really I would say Marvel has been diverse since Monica Rambaeau or Falcon, even the original X-men. Overall this era sucked and I'm happy to see it go, I've talked to a ton of people who quit buying marvel the last few years because of these gimmicks, ultimately it's not something I want taking up space on a shelf or in a a longbox, and hey at least Marvel has a Universe to go back to unlike DC.

The ANAD X-Men from 1975, sure, but not the originals, who are not racially diverse at all.

Carol seems old because she is, for a superhero. She was a major in the air force before she got her powers, and that happened in the 1970s - a decade ago even in-universe. Carol has to be pushing 40. The short hair she now has does make her look older... but only because her old long hair made her look younger than she really is.

[darkseidpwns]

Is the dark age ending? now maybe I can read Cap and not Spencer's political crap.

[Kuwagaton]

Where other forms of entertainment are oversaturated in the news avenues they command, I think this rare sort of comment from someone at this level is latched onto and extrapolated because of said rarity.

It sucks, but I'm betting that 4 years from now, they give diversity another go on an even larger scale than what they've been doing lately.

"Diversity" isn't just one push. Marvel has always aimed for line diversity, which is relative.

[Prof. Warren]

The problem with diversity characters, to my mind, is they have no relation to Marvel Continuity. Sure you can ignore that and just enjoy a good character and a good story, but there comes a time when you ask the question "what is the relevance of this character in the big picture"? For instance, Thor. She is a doctor with no connection whatsoever to Asgard, (and she is known to hate Asgard and was scared of that place),and, she's a Thundergod. The Thundergod. It makes no sense to have these buffet super heroes sprinkled around the MU as lovely new characters, when they have no relevance to the MU. You may as well form a new Emblem called PC line and put all these characters in there, because they don't fit in the story of the Marvel Universe as its been up till now. It's like someone decided to shove all the characters from another comic company into the MU. It just dilutes the beauty, and even more importantly, dirties the pool. I don't know why Marvel execs didn't notice that's what was happening.

Jane Foster Thor has been a huge success. Period. And it's because fans like the story. Just because a story elevates a woman or minority, it isn't doing it just to fulfill a PC agenda. If Marvel execs noticed anything about the success of the Jane Foster storyline it's that fans were willing to embrace its upset to the status quo and its change to a long-standing supporting character.

If anything that success only emboldened Marvel to make even more changes but too much change at the same time can be alienating.