Was the marriage good for Spider-Man ?

[MRstarkiller360]

When would you say it stopped being good?

I would say everytime that the writers tried to undo the marriege. Because when they didn't tried to undo the marriege a lot of it was good.

[Hypestyle]

it was good in general, but considering the origins of the decision, it was perhaps a little hasty.
With the sliding timeline issues, inevitably, you come across topics like, well, when are they going to have children? how many? How fast should the children age?
Not to mention the presumed aging of the core character himself (and wife).

the clone saga potentially altered the marriage in a bizarre way-- initially having "Peter" be the clone, married to Mary Jane.

Various people have grown up only knowing MJ as his 'one and only', but it could have been interesting for the late 80s and the 90s if there were other romances, however long they lasted, still with MJ in the mix.

One More Day would have been more palatable to me if Eternity were the entity that manages the retcon. Have Spider-Man involved in some cosmic gambit, and he or Mary Jane makes the fateful choice at the end to sacrifice to save the other's life (and possibly the world/universe). Mephisto being responsible gives it too much of a creepy taint.

the heroine Jackpot should have been MJ, but for whatever reasons, it was decided to just have her as a fakeout.

[WebLurker]

I don't think it was good for the series. I've gone over a lot of this before, but...

Fair enough (it is your opinion, after all), but if I may comment:

- It was rushed. Peter and MJ weren't really dating when he proposed. Aunt May found out about the engagement in the same issue in which they got married.

I've heard back and forth about it being rushed or not. All I can say is that it's my understanding that MJ had already been set up as Spider-Man's most serious relationship, so there was a foundation and history that would make a marriage be a logical outcome (in fact, if I recall correctly, in the issues prior, the setup was that the couple were basically in love but in denial about how serious their feelings were for each other). So, was them getting married at that specific point in time rushed? Possibly, however the idea that they were suited for it and only really viable option for Spider-Man getting married had been in the making for years. Besides, even if it was a rush job to start it, that has little relevance to the question if it was a good idea in the first place or worked in the long run.

- It coincided with weak eras of the title. There are certainly bright spots (Kraven's Last Hunt, the early Venom, Millar's Marvel Knights run) but there's a dearth of great runs following the marriage.

But that begs the question, was it because the marriage was in place that the runs were weak or because the writers' storytelling wasn't up to scratch in any event? Given that I've seen good and bad storytelling using both status quos, I think the latter is a more likely guess. (The married years were started during the dark ages of comics, so the industry as a whole was going through a creative slump at the time.)

- The books got better when the marriage went away. Some of the best Spider-Man stories of the 2000s happened when MJ was believed dead, when MJ or Peter were separated...

That's highly subjective. I mean, from my personal experience, most of the stuff that was after the marriage went way were not better. In fact, to be totally candid, the current run of ASM is the worst I've seen period from my entire history of the franchise.

...to say nothing of good untold tales...

So good stories can be told with other status quoes. That's very true, but that doesn't prove that one is inherently better than the other.

...or the ultimate books.

That is honestly one of the worst examples you could've brought up for your position. I know Ultimate Spider-Man front and backwards, and, while technically not a married series (given that it was a high school setting), one of the ideas that formed the foundation of that comic was that Peter and MJ were going to be partners for life. MJ was the only person Peter said he wanted to marry (when they were adults) and I think the only one he said "I love you" too; she was the only girlfriend he ever reconciled with post-breakup (more than once); the couple other girls he tried to date eventually worked out that no one was going to replace her, the idea of these two being a couple was one of the key elements of the series, and their story ended with them eloping.

So, does it technically fit the bill you're assigning to it? Yes, but the spirit of the series itself is with the married years of the franchise. This is one of those series that argues that the characters belong together.

- It didn't add much to the series. Most of the stories could have been done just as easily with a Peter and MJ who were living together.

It raised the stakes. Spider-Man's wife being in danger or having relationship issues is always more serious than it being his girlfriend; there's more to loose. Besides, the only arguable reason for not having him married is so that he could possibly have other girlfriend characters. Given that MJ has taken the spot as the most iconic and developed love interest character for the franchise, there's not really much point in having different girlfriend characters.

- It resulted in repetitive conflicts and resolutions.

That's always an occupational hazard in a series that's designed to go on forever. On top of that, the same can be said for the current setup where Spider-Man has a string of girlfriends, which was overdone years before 1987 and is a stale now as it was back then. It may be a pick your poison, but I think, given the characterizations, setting, and how the franchise has grown over time, married works better than that, as I see it.

- It removed part of the drama from the series.

I'm not sure what that means.

I also submit that it offers different forms of storytelling, which include different forms of drama, stakes, and whatnot, so nothing was “removed.”

Okay, in my opinion, was marrying Spider-Man a good decision? I'd says yes.

It opened new avenues of storytelling, expanding the franchise and the possibilities. It was a logical continuation of the story (based on the characters and the themes of the mythos). On a personal note, it heavily influenced stuff like the movies and the Ultimate comics, which are my favorite parts of the franchise.

[Scott Taylor]

The 1990s are terrible mainly because the grand scheme was focused on getting rid of the marriage in a congruent, story-based fashion. And that backfired. When writers just accepted the marriage and told their stories, it worked. KLH is a good example of that, as are many of the JMS stories.

So, as usual, its the writing that makes for bad stories rather than a status quo.

[DieHard200904]

It had it's good and bad stories. It was a status quo with its moments. When they weren't trying to make Peter Parker a fake or acting like an emotional ******* like in Clone Saga, it was a decent thing. I think most of the points I could say have already been spoken here.

[Metamorphosis]

I've heard back and forth about it being rushed or not. All I can say is that it's my understanding that MJ had already been set up as Spider-Man's most serious relationship, so there was a foundation and history that would make a marriage be a logical outcome (in fact, if I recall correctly, in the issues prior, the setup was that the couple were basically in love but in denial about how serious their feelings were for each other). So, was them getting married at that specific point in time rushed? Possibly, however the idea that they were suited for it and only really viable option for Spider-Man getting married had been in the making for years. Besides, even if it was a rush job to start it, that has little relevance to the question if it was a good idea in the first place or worked in the long run.

It was rushed in that they decided to go through with it to coincide with the real-life Shea Stadium event with the actors getting married and Stan officiating.

I've seen people here incorrectly cite that Peter was dating Felicia right before he decided to marry MJ. He wasn't. He spent 1986 trying to avoid getting killed by Felicia & Foreigner when she sought revenge on Peter for interfering with her powers. The wedding issue was published in 1987.

They were already in the process of splitting up Peter & Felicia well before he proposed to MJ a second time.

Mets wants to point to the marriage affecting the quality of the book. But it was also an era when Marvel was letting artists and events run roughshod over their titles. It's nearly the polar opposite of today's climate in comics where writers rule the roost.

When it comes to the subject of the marriage in general, many people want to push an inaccurate narrative to suit their agenda.

[Spidercide]

I don't think it was good for the series. I've gone over a lot of this before, but...

- It was rushed. Peter and MJ weren't really dating when he proposed. Aunt May found out about the engagement in the same issue in which they got married.
- It coincided with weak eras of the title. There are certainly bright spots (Kraven's Last Hunt, the early Venom, Millar's Marvel Knights run) but there's a dearth of great runs following the marriage.
- The books got better when the marriage went away. Some of the best Spider-Man stories of the 2000s happened when MJ was believed dead, when MJ or Peter were separated, to say nothing of good untold tales or the ultimate books.
- It didn't add much to the series. Most of the stories could have been done just as easily with a Peter and MJ who were living together.
- It resulted in repetitive conflicts and resolutions.
- It removed part of the drama from the series.

Lets go through these one by one

- The marriage being rushed is a frivolous point. Whilst the WEDDING itself was perhaps rushed the emotional build up to the two being in a place where marriage was believable and additive had been done across over 2 years of stories transpiring in three titles, plus a few annuals and one shots.

They were not OPENLY dating. But as Spider-Man vs Wolverine outlines they were dating but pretending that that wasn’t the case between themselves. ASM #291 also has Peter outright state they have been more than friends for a long time.

- There are a dearth of great runs following the marriage. No there aren’t.

To begin with there has only been ONE run since the marriage Slott’s unless you want to count BND as a run when it is akin to a round robin.

Regarsdless BND and Slott’s runs have not been ‘great’ whatsoever. Both have consistently mischaracterized Spider-Man, undermine the core underlying philosophies of the series and wrought very serios damage to the characters.

Or are we going to call

- Making Ben Reilly evil
- Making Doc Ock an attempted rapist
- Making Peter passve throughout most of Spider-Verse
- Turning the everyman hero into a 1%er the world knows internationally

In line with the ideas defining Spider-Man/additive to the series/not reductive?

As for there being weak runs during the marriage you know who else experienced weak runs during the spider-marriage?

The X-Men. The Avengers. Iron Man. Captain America. Thor. Wonder Woman. Green Lantern. The Fantastic Four and the Teen Titans.

At the same time let’s consider the three WORST eras of Spider-Man before One More Day

Denny O’Neil’s run.

J.M DeMatteis’ run on ASm before and during the Clone Saga during from 1994-1995 (we could lump in the satellites during this time period too.

Howard Mackie’s run in the 2000s.

Those were the worst of the worst runs on the character before OMD. But taking a closer look.

-Mackie’s run was wretched due to his fatigue, John Byrne’s influence and the writer’s actively trying to remove the marriage going so far as to make people deloiberately hate it by writing it badely

- DeMatteis ASm run and the surrounding runs were deliberately making Spider-Man look bad in order to garner greater acceptance of Ben Reilly. Then the clone saga was artificially stretched out by the marketing department and eventually mutated into making the removal of the marriage a top priority
- Denny O’Neil’s run sucked but MJ was wholly absent and the marriage didn’t exist yet.
I’d also throw in Len Wein’s run as something supremely medicocre alongside Stan’s latter issues.

It’s almost like those ‘weak runs’ coincided with other extenuating circumstances and/or attempts to deep six the marriage. Which wouldn’t have happened if they left the marriage well alone.

On the flipside the marriage also concided with a ‘few bright spots’ such as

-the JMS run on Spider-Man
-TWO powerful and psycholoigically rich runs of the character by JM DeMatteis
-Mark Millar’s brilliant 12 issue run
-Sacasa’s solid run
-PAD’s serviceable Friendly Neighborhood run
-Conway’s serviceable Spec and Web runs which introduced iconic characters like Tombstone
-the only eisener nominated Spider-Man story in history which was literally about the marriage
-multiple other critically acclaimed stories

- Cite examples of these alleged ‘best Spider-Man stories of the 2000s’ when MJ went away.

I’m reasonably willing to bet that they will either

a) Be outnumbered by other great stories that took place when the marriage or Mj were present
b) Not actually good stories in the first place

Also the Ultimate books are not supportive of the argument because
1) They are not in continuity in which case we could bring Spider-Girl or 2099 into this
2) MJ is a prominent presence in those books and narratively serves a similar function to her role during the marriage. She was present and serving as Peter’s mains supporting cast member/love interest for the majority of his tenure in the series before he died
3) Much of USm transpired whilst the marriage was in play in the main universe
4) The Ultimate line of Spider-Man was in fact never good in the first place, screwing up various aspects of the mythology and characters. E.g. Peter’s idolizing his dad so much rather than Uncle Ben, Venom lacking a personality, Doc Ock not having any humanitarian aspirations.
Ultimate Spider-Man was from the start a pretty poor representation of the Spider-Man mythology. The spec cartoon was everything it should have been.

- Hypothetically lets say that yes most of the stories could’ve been done with Peter and MJ just living together. This doesn’t mitigate how most of those stories is not ALL of those stories. It also mitigates the emotional and narrative wight lent to them having committed to marriage and the character development afforded to them both in taking that step. For Peter it was him having achieved a life aspiration and become more like Uncle Ben which is part of his aspirations in life and for MJ it represented her conquering one of her deep seated issues and was a constant cource of strength and heroism for her character as she struggled to make her marriage work despite her parents’ and sister’s marriages failing under less ardudous circumstances.

Plus there is an argument that ‘the marriage’ is a by-word for Peter and MJ’s relationship which under that understanding renders the criticism that the series would be the same with them not married irrelevant. Because it still matters that she was his romantic partner during that time.

- You know what is also repetitive? Peter trying and failing to secure long term romantic fulfilment. And also Aunt May’s health problems.

But more poignantly the argument of repetitiveness does not take context into account.

There were FOUR monthly Spider-Man titles which all repeated various story beats ad nauseum during that time period as Spider-Man (and the whole industry) began pushing wuantity over quality. Spider-Man cannot support 4 titles every month, there are not enough stories or originality to go around and so laziness set in, seeping into MJ’s portrayals too as it would have for ANY supporting character who appeared as frequently.

It wasn’t problem inherent or reliant upon the marriage but 90s over exposure.

- The only drama it removed was the tension of Peter’s dating life.
Not only is the series ot about this, but this had ceased being a source of tension long before the marriage sans the will the/won’t they romance he had with MJ leading into the wedding, precisely because readers truly believed it could go somewhere (which it did). This is because that part of his life had been canvassed across 25 years.

Plus...was wondering if Venom was going to kill him, or if he was a clone, or if Norman Osborn was going to kill everyone he loves not dramatic enough?

No,i for once never remember to read Spider-Man stories during the marriage years thinking,i have to see the most recent developments in the marriage of Peter and Mary Jane.Lol
I just wanted to read Spider-Man stories.
The marriage was a status quo that was just there.
Plus the marriage in the stories was just rushed and was quite odd.
I remember when i was reading comics around the time of Amazing Spider-Man Annual#21,and thinking the marriage was quite rushed but i was like okay,whatever.
Over the years it did not helped to keep me reading the stories,but thats normal i guess when there is a status quo that lasts for 20 years in the stories.It gets boring,as simple as that.

The marriage was not rushed. Peter propsed to MJ in the 1970s and in ASM annual #19 Aunt May and Aunt Anna tease MJ about marrying Peter. DeFalco and Frenz have stated they were building to Peter and MJ's wedding but never intended t pull the trigger on it. In Spec #123 Peter David has MJ not particularly inconspicuously reference her and MJ's relationship in terms related to marriage.

If you bothered to actually read Peter and MJ's relationship in the issues leading up to their marriage (and not just the ASM ones) instead of repeating Marvel's flase narrative about it you'd see it was properly built up.

As for status quos getting boring after 20 years...hasn't Peter NOT being married been a status quo for in excess of 25 years?

[Spidercide]

Also if something exists for 20 years inevitably there are a mixture of good and bad stories. ****, Daredevil didn't really get good at all UNTIL 20 years after he was created.

And there have been only three treuly stratospheric F4 runs, Lee/Kirby, Byrne and Wiad/Wieringo.

[Mister Mets]

The marriage was rushed...and OMD and OMIT weren't? They are the worst comics ever written because one man, Quesada wanted what he wanted! At least the marriage story made sense and didn't stink to high heaven like OMD and OMIT did.
You claim the marriage produced "weak areas"...and yet ignore the fact that the majority of stories since OMD have been even worse and produced lower grade stories?The reason you give for the stories being better with a MJ believed dead was because the love between Peter and MJ produced great emotion and drama, and the same can be said when they were seperated...but they were still married.
The marriage didn't add much to the series and could have been produced with the couple just living together? The marriage and just living together is the same thing...so why this nonsense about how bad the marriage was to the stories and franchise?
Funny...since BND all we have seen is repetitive conflicts and resolutions which have no meaning as long as Peter's life and destiny are controlled by a demon!
The marriage, along with Peter and MJ's deep love for one another created massive emotion and drama! What have the stories since BND produced that was drama filled?
MJ is a strong,intelligent and independent woman who not only knew how to stand on her own, but is a great confidant and adviser for Peter...who completely understands him and why he does what he does, and loves him for it unconditionally.They are soul mates who are perfect for another and totally compliment one another. Their love for one another was pure,honest and true...no one can ever take MJ's place, and never will.
If the marriage meant absolutely nothing then why did Mephisto want it so bad? Because he wanted to spite God Himself and rid the world of a perfect union that would give others comfort and hope in the belief that love conquers all!
However, with OMD and OMIT Marvel/Quesada sent the message that absolute evil triumphs over righteousness and love, and shall continue to do so as long as Peter remains a pawn of the devil!

The main question is "Was the marriage good for Spider-Man?" That's not really about One More Day.

I would disagree with your opinion on the majority of comics since One More Day. I think the material's been pretty decent.

The marriage added little in a narrative sense. In-universe is a different story.

[Mister Mets]

It was rushed in that they decided to go through with it to coincide with the real-life Shea Stadium event with the actors getting married and Stan officiating.

I've seen people here incorrectly cite that Peter was dating Felicia right before he decided to marry MJ. He wasn't. He spent 1986 trying to avoid getting killed by Felicia & Foreigner when she sought revenge on Peter for interfering with her powers. The wedding issue was published in 1987.

They were already in the process of splitting up Peter & Felicia well before he proposed to MJ a second time.

Mets wants to point to the marriage affecting the quality of the book. But it was also an era when Marvel was letting artists and events run roughshod over their titles. It's nearly the polar opposite of today's climate in comics where writers rule the roost.

When it comes to the subject of the marriage in general, many people want to push an inaccurate narrative to suit their agenda.

Here's a page of Peter and Felicia from Amazing Spider-Man #289, the issue before the proposal.



How on Earth could anyone think there was something between the at the time?

There is a legitimate argument that the marriage coincided with a weak era of comic books in general, and so an analysis of quality has to keep that in mind. But I don't think that's enough to explain the difference.

Also if something exists for 20 years inevitably there are a mixture of good and bad stories. ****, Daredevil didn't really get good at all UNTIL 20 years after he was created.

And there have been only three treuly stratospheric F4 runs, Lee/Kirby, Byrne and Wiad/Wieringo.

I'd add Hickman to the list.

[Metamorphosis]

Here's a page of Peter and Felicia from Amazing Spider-Man #289, the issue before the proposal.

Cover date: June 1987.

The next month would have the conclusion of the Felicia / Foreigner arc in Spec, after which Black Cat goes away for a long time.

There's a lot wrong with #289, but it was particularly incongruous of PAD to write that scene in, considering the story he was already writing over in Spec.

Peter hadn't put together her scheme with the Foreigner yet, so the writing was on the wall already there.

Besides, so she makes him some new costumes, and it's implied they subsequently bone. They had already broken up with no intention of getting back together as far back as Spec #100 (Mar 1985).

[Mister Mets]

Lets go through these one by one

- The marriage being rushed is a frivolous point. Whilst the WEDDING itself was perhaps rushed the emotional build up to the two being in a place where marriage was believable and additive had been done across over 2 years of stories transpiring in three titles, plus a few annuals and one shots.

They were not OPENLY dating. But as Spider-Man vs Wolverine outlines they were dating but pretending that that wasn’t the case between themselves. ASM #291 also has Peter outright state they have been more than friends for a long time.

They went from not openly dating to big wedding in four issues. That'd be fast, even if they eloped.

- There are a dearth of great runs following the marriage. No there aren’t.

To begin with there has only been ONE run since the marriage Slott’s unless you want to count BND as a run when it is akin to a round robin.

Regarsdless BND and Slott’s runs have not been ‘great’ whatsoever. Both have consistently mischaracterized Spider-Man, undermine the core underlying philosophies of the series and wrought very serios damage to the characters.

Or are we going to call

- Making Ben Reilly evil
- Making Doc Ock an attempted rapist
- Making Peter passve throughout most of Spider-Verse
- Turning the everyman hero into a 1%er the world knows internationally

In line with the ideas defining Spider-Man/additive to the series/not reductive?

As for there being weak runs during the marriage you know who else experienced weak runs during the spider-marriage?

The X-Men. The Avengers. Iron Man. Captain America. Thor. Wonder Woman. Green Lantern. The Fantastic Four and the Teen Titans.

At the same time let’s consider the three WORST eras of Spider-Man before One More Day

Denny O’Neil’s run.

J.M DeMatteis’ run on ASm before and during the Clone Saga during from 1994-1995 (we could lump in the satellites during this time period too.

Howard Mackie’s run in the 2000s.

Those were the worst of the worst runs on the character before OMD. But taking a closer look.

-Mackie’s run was wretched due to his fatigue, John Byrne’s influence and the writer’s actively trying to remove the marriage going so far as to make people deloiberately hate it by writing it badely

- DeMatteis ASm run and the surrounding runs were deliberately making Spider-Man look bad in order to garner greater acceptance of Ben Reilly. Then the clone saga was artificially stretched out by the marketing department and eventually mutated into making the removal of the marriage a top priority
- Denny O’Neil’s run sucked but MJ was wholly absent and the marriage didn’t exist yet.
I’d also throw in Len Wein’s run as something supremely medicocre alongside Stan’s latter issues.

It’s almost like those ‘weak runs’ coincided with other extenuating circumstances and/or attempts to deep six the marriage. Which wouldn’t have happened if they left the marriage well alone.

On the flipside the marriage also concided with a ‘few bright spots’ such as

-the JMS run on Spider-Man
-TWO powerful and psycholoigically rich runs of the character by JM DeMatteis
-Mark Millar’s brilliant 12 issue run
-Sacasa’s solid run
-PAD’s serviceable Friendly Neighborhood run
-Conway’s serviceable Spec and Web runs which introduced iconic characters like Tombstone
-the only eisener nominated Spider-Man story in history which was literally about the marriage
-multiple other critically acclaimed stories

I'd put Brand New Day as a different run from the Big Time, although I can understand the point that one long run and one short run would both count as one memorable run.

I don't think that was really an issue with the good runs in the marriage.

Michelinie and Conway stuck around for a while, in terms of number of issues, but I wouldn't rate those as impressive runs. And then there's other stuff that wasn't serviceable (incidentally, serviceable is a low bar). Your mileage may vary.

- Cite examples of these alleged ‘best Spider-Man stories of the 2000s’ when MJ went away.

I’m reasonably willing to bet that they will either

a) Be outnumbered by other great stories that took place when the marriage or Mj were present
b) Not actually good stories in the first place

Also the Ultimate books are not supportive of the argument because
1) They are not in continuity in which case we could bring Spider-Girl or 2099 into this
2) MJ is a prominent presence in those books and narratively serves a similar function to her role during the marriage. She was present and serving as Peter’s mains supporting cast member/love interest for the majority of his tenure in the series before he died
3) Much of USm transpired whilst the marriage was in play in the main universe
4) The Ultimate line of Spider-Man was in fact never good in the first place, screwing up various aspects of the mythology and characters. E.g. Peter’s idolizing his dad so much rather than Uncle Ben, Venom lacking a personality, Doc Ock not having any humanitarian aspirations.
Ultimate Spider-Man was from the start a pretty poor representation of the Spider-Man mythology. The spec cartoon was everything it should have been.

Alternate universes count if the argument is that taking away the marriage somehow led to elevated material.

But avoiding the Ultimate books, some good stories in which Peter and MJ weren't married that were published between Amazing Spider-Man Annual #21 and One More Day include...
- The Amazing Fantasy mini-series.
- The best of Untold Tales of Spider-Man
- The JM DeMatteis Mysterio story in Webspinners
- The Joe Kelly prom story in Webspinners
- The Tom DeFalco Silver Sable VS Sinister Sydnicate story in Webspinners
- Darwyn Cooke's Valentine's Day
- Spider-Man Blue (aside from the last five pages)
- The first four issues of Spider-Man/ Human Torch
- Death & Destiny
- Coming Home (Peter and MJ were separated)
- The Conversation (Peter and MJ were separated)
- Return of the Green Goblin (MJ was believed dead)
- The Robot Master wanted to die (MJ was believed dead)
- Paul Jenkins' quiet standalone issues from Peter Parker Spider-Man (MJ and Peter were separated or she was believed dead)
- One Small Break (Peter and MJ were separated)

- Hypothetically lets say that yes most of the stories could’ve been done with Peter and MJ just living together. This doesn’t mitigate how most of those stories is not ALL of those stories. It also mitigates the emotional and narrative wight lent to them having committed to marriage and the character development afforded to them both in taking that step. For Peter it was him having achieved a life aspiration and become more like Uncle Ben which is part of his aspirations in life and for MJ it represented her conquering one of her deep seated issues and was a constant cource of strength and heroism for her character as she struggled to make her marriage work despite her parents’ and sister’s marriages failing under less ardudous circumstances.

Plus there is an argument that ‘the marriage’ is a by-word for Peter and MJ’s relationship which under that understanding renders the criticism that the series would be the same with them not married irrelevant. Because it still matters that she was his romantic partner during that time.

It often matters that she was his romantic partner. But that could be achieved without the marriage.

- You know what is also repetitive? Peter trying and failing to secure long term romantic fulfilment. And also Aunt May’s health problems.

But more poignantly the argument of repetitiveness does not take context into account.

There were FOUR monthly Spider-Man titles which all repeated various story beats ad nauseum during that time period as Spider-Man (and the whole industry) began pushing wuantity over quality. Spider-Man cannot support 4 titles every month, there are not enough stories or originality to go around and so laziness set in, seeping into MJ’s portrayals too as it would have for ANY supporting character who appeared as frequently.

It wasn’t problem inherent or reliant upon the marriage but 90s over exposure.

An issue of repetitiveness is that these stories by necessity will involve the same two characters. There is greater storytelling variety when the same beats are done with different characters.

- The only drama it removed was the tension of Peter’s dating life.
Not only is the series ot about this, but this had ceased being a source of tension long before the marriage sans the will the/won’t they romance he had with MJ leading into the wedding, precisely because readers truly believed it could go somewhere (which it did). This is because that part of his life had been canvassed across 25 years.

Plus...was wondering if Venom was going to kill him, or if he was a clone, or if Norman Osborn was going to kill everyone he loves not dramatic enough?

We know Venom's not going to kill him, and that Green Goblin's not going to kill everyone loves, and that if editorial has brains they're not going to reveal that the Spider-Man in some great stories is fake.

[Metamorphosis]

They went from not openly dating to big wedding in four issues. That'd be fast, even if they eloped.

It would appear odd and rushed only if Peter married a character that had only been introduced to readers in a few months of stories. Like most recently, Lie/an.

MJ was a character that had been present in the comic for nearly as long as Peter himself. And their relationship was teased from the very beginning.

But avoiding the Ultimate books, some good stories in which Peter and MJ weren't married that were published between Amazing Spider-Man Annual #21 and One More Day include...
- The Amazing Fantasy mini-series.

A throwback story meant to pencil in events between issues in the Lee / Ditko years.

- The best of Untold Tales of Spider-Man

See above, same thing.

- The JM DeMatteis Mysterio story in Webspinners

Wasn't that good, or memorable. And it didn't seem to take place in the current era it was released.

- The Joe Kelly prom story in Webspinners

Throwback story, didn't seem to take place in the current era it was released.

- The Tom DeFalco Silver Sable VS Sinister Sydnicate story in Webspinners

This was another throwback-type story set in the era RIGHT BEFORE THE MARRIAGE.

- Darwyn Cooke's Valentine's Day

Didn't take place in any set continuity, but if it did, it would be the Stan Lee years.

- Spider-Man Blue (aside from the last five pages)

Didn't take place in any set continuity, but if it did, it would be the Stan Lee years.

- The first four issues of Spider-Man/ Human Torch

Spanned several eras of Spider-Man.

- Death & Destiny

A throwback story meant to pencil in events between issues in the Conway years.

- Coming Home (Peter and MJ were separated)

But they were still married (pre-OMD).

- The Conversation (Peter and MJ were separated)

Still married (pre-OMD).

- Return of the Green Goblin (MJ was believed dead)

Still married (pre-OMD).

- The Robot Master wanted to die (MJ was believed dead)

Still married (pre-OMD).

- Paul Jenkins' quiet standalone issues from Peter Parker Spider-Man (MJ and Peter were separated or she was believed dead)

Still married (pre-OMD).

- One Small Break (Peter and MJ were separated)

Still married (pre-OMD).

Mets, half of the stories you picked as the best in the "MJ is missing" era were retro-leaning, throwback stories which took place among the events of the very formative years of the title.

The other half were stories that actually took place during the marriage.

[comicscollector]

And keeping Peter a single, girl to next girl to next girl playboy won't get boring and stagnant over time?

Most of the more famous characters are bachelors.(Batman,Captain America,Iron Man and so on)
And it is obvious by looking at the characters history that the bachelor SQ does not get boring and stagnant over time.
This notion that there can be only good Spider-Man stories with Peter and Mary Jane married is absurd.
Of course there can be told more stories in the bachelor SQ,that the married SQ.
The amount of stories can be done with Peter and Mary Jane is less that the amount of stories can be done with Peter and any other female character.
So yeah,to me i find it much more difficult to get bored by the stories with a single Spider-Man that a married Spider-Man.

The marriage was not rushed. Peter propsed to MJ in the 1970s and in ASM annual #19 Aunt May and Aunt Anna tease MJ about marrying Peter. DeFalco and Frenz have stated they were building to Peter and MJ's wedding but never intended t pull the trigger on it. In Spec #123 Peter David has MJ not particularly inconspicuously reference her and MJ's relationship in terms related to marriage.

If you bothered to actually read Peter and MJ's relationship in the issues leading up to their marriage (and not just the ASM ones) instead of repeating Marvel's flase narrative about it you'd see it was properly built up.

As for status quos getting boring after 20 years...hasn't Peter NOT being married been a status quo for in excess of 25 years?

I am not repeating a "false narrative",i am speaking from my opinion as a fan of the stories and from what i remember from that time,because i was reading the Spidey stories back then.
And even Erik Larsen said the same,but lets forget what comic books professionals say,i had that impression when i was reading Spider-Man stories way back.
Why?
Because i remember that in a few stories before ASM:ANNUAL#21,Mary Jane actually declined the proposal of marriage by Peter Parker.
So i thought that with this the marriage would not happen in the stories,so i was surprised to see that in a few stories after they married.
It was just many years after that i knew about how the marriage happened to have the marvel comics and the Spider-Man strip have the same status quo.
About the staus quo getting bored,well to me generally speaking i prefer the stories between Amazing Fantasy #15 and Amazing Spider-Man Annual#21 that the stories while Peter and MJ were married.
Of course both Staus quo had good and bad stories,but generally speaking i find the stories with Spider-Man being a bachelor more entertaining that the ones with a married Peter and Mary Jane.

[WebLurker]

In regards to whether the timing of the marriage was a little quick or not, I have to ask: "So?" How does that affect the final product?

Most of the more famous characters are bachelors.(Batman,Captain America,Iron Man and so on)
And it is obvious by looking at the characters history that the bachelor SQ does not get boring and stagnant over time.

Case by case basis? Also worth noting, none of those characters you mentioned have a Lois Lane-level love interest character. Spider-Man does.

This notion that there can be only good Spider-Man stories with Peter and Mary Jane married is absurd.

No one is saying that. I'm not saying that, certainly.

The amount of stories can be done with Peter and Mary Jane is less that the amount of stories can be done with Peter and any other female character.

Color me unconvinced.

Of course both Staus quo had good and bad stories,but generally speaking i find the stories with Spider-Man being a bachelor more entertaining that the ones with a married Peter and Mary Jane.

Fair enough.