G. Willow Wilson on "that whole thing" concerning diversity in Marvel Comics

[ijacksparrow]

So About That Whole Thing

LONG COMIC BOOK RANT INCOMING:

Okay some things need to be said:

1. If you’re going to write a smug thunk-piece about the “failure” of “diversity” in comics, maybe don’t use the cover image of a book that’s had 4 collections on the NYT graphic books bestseller list, won a Hugo and cleaned up at Angouleme. Just because you HOPE it’s on the chopping block, oh Riders of the Brohirrim, doesn’t mean it is.

2. I will tell you exactly why Ms Marvel works: it didn’t set out to be Ms Marvel. We were originally going to pitch it as a 10 issue limited series. I had a 3 issue exit strategy because I assumed we were going to get canned. There was no “diversity initiative” anywhere–getting that thing made at all was a struggle. It was a given that any character without AT LEAST a 20-year history would tank. Everybody, myself included, assumed this series was going to work out the same way.

3. That freed us–by “us” I mean the whole creative team–to tell exactly the story we wanted to tell. We had nothing to lose, nothing to overcome but low expectations. That gave us room to break a lot of rules.

STUFF THAT IS DIFFICULT TO REPLICATE AND IMPOSSIBLE TO PLAN:

1. Unexpected audiences. We are at a point in history when the role of religion is at a tremendous inflection point. What I didn’t realize was that the anxieties felt by young Muslims are also felt by young Mormons, evangelicals, orthodox Jews, and others. A h-u-g-e reason Ms Marvel has struck the chord it has is because it deals with the role of traditionalist faith in the context of social justice, and there was–apparently–an untapped audience of people from a wide variety of faith backgrounds who were eager for a story like this. Nobody could have predicted or planned for that. That’s being in the right place at the right time with the right story burning a hole in your pocket. Plenty of other stuff I’ve written and liked has fallen with a huge thud. That’s the norm. Exceptions are great when they happen, but hard to plan.

2. The paradox of low expectations. The bar was set pretty low for Ms Marvel, but because of Ms Marvel’s success, that bar got set much higher for similar books that came later.

STUFF THAT IS ENTIRELY AVOIDABLE:

1. This is a personal opinion, but IMO launching a legacy character by killing off or humiliating the original character sets the legacy character up for failure. Who wants a legacy if the legacy is shitty?

2. Diversity as a form of performative guilt doesn’t work. Let’s scrap the word diversity entirely and replace it with authenticity and realism. This is not a new world. This is *the world.*

3. Never try to be the next whoever. Be the first and only you. People smell BS a mile away.

4. The direct market and the book market have diverged. Never the twain shall meet. We need to accept this and move on, and market accordingly.

5. Not for nothing, but there is a direct correlation between the quote unquote “diverse” Big 2 properties that have done well (Luke Cage, Black Panther, Ms Marvel, Batgirl) and properties that have A STRONG SENSE OF PLACE. It’s not “diversity” that draws those elusive untapped audiences, it’s *particularity.* This is a vital distinction nobody seems to make. This goes back to authenticity and realism.

AND FINALLY

On a practical level, this is not really a story about “diversity” at all. It’s a story about the rise of YA comics. If you look at it that way, the things that sell and don’t sell (AND THE MARKETS THEY SELL IN VS THE MARKETS THEY DON’T SELL IN) start to make a different kind of sense.

http://gwillowwilson.com/post/159094...at-whole-thing

Some thoughts on how this hits the nail on the head regarding diversity in Marvel Comics and comics in general:

Ms. Marvel is an astonishing success. She is the most successful newcomer character out of Marvel Comics in this century, and did that not by mimmicking Carol Danvers. She isn't Carol Danvers with a different ethnic origin, she isn't a different gender version of the character, she isn't a different sexual orientation version of that character. She is her own person. And I'd argue that Kamala Khan is a better character than Carol Danvers has ever been so far because of this very reason.

Ms. Marvel feels genuine because it's written genuinely and people can tell that. Miles Morales, RiRi Williams and to a less extent Amadeus Cho fans might disagree on that, but these characters don't feel as genuine as they could simply because their origin superhero story are directly linked to the death/demise of their predecessors. Miles Morales, six years after his creation still feels like just Peter Parker with a different skin color. RiRi Williams feels like trying to replicate what Bendis did with Spider-Man but Iron Man instead. It's not me saying that Miles Morales and RiRi Williams can't evolve, eventually. It's me saying that Ms. Marvel will certainly keep going strong as long as G. Willow Wilson is attached to her and probably after that because there's a foundation, there's something real about the character. Kamala redefined who Ms. Marvel means and made it her own, thanks to Wilson. Fraction redefined what Hawkeye means and stands for both Clint and Kate, but repeating what it worked there ad nauseaum and basing it after deaths of iconic characters clearly isn't working.

There's room to real diverse voices in comics, both in Marvel and DC Comics. But they need to feel genuine. They need authenticity. And that's what most of these "diverse Marvel initiative" lacks.

[gwangung]

Yeah, this is an essay that deserves a thread.

I want to focus in on one part....that what people want is authenticity. And I think that's true. They want details that ring true. They want looks at life that match up to the world that's around them. They want characters that aren't bland, but can walk the streets of a major metropolitan city and look like they belong.

That doesn't mean you're not going to have big hero battles, with fantastic powers and crazy flying people with crazy, weird powers. It's just that the people who have those battles, who wield those powers HAVE to have a palpable sense of authentic, lived in reality. If they live in Harlem, they have all the markers of someone who has a life in tbe African American community. You can't just have white people dipped in brown or light ash or olive; there has to be an authentic life for your characters.

That's why the recent scene in Totally Awesome Hulk, with the assembled Asian American heroes, struck a chord. There was an authentic worry reflected there about being a good representation for the community...and that doesn't even touch the karaoke or the picking up the check.

A palpable sense of place. Authentic details. A slice of life that's real.

(Hm. Wait. Am I talking about "diversity"...or am I talking about Astro City...because the same principles underlie both....)

Oh...and that thing about the rise of YA comics? Totally to the point...and will probably be ignored by 90% of the fans.

[magnum]

She nailed it on the head and good for her for calling out her own company!!! Bravo, finally some great honesty and not just towing the company line or drinking the Koolaid!

[UltimateTy]

OP you would have a better point if those characters you mentioned didn't all sell better than Ms Marvel which you are bigging up.

[Smoov-E]

http://gwillowwilson.com/post/159094...at-whole-thing

Some thoughts on how this hits the nail on the head regarding diversity in Marvel Comics and comics in general:

Ms. Marvel is an astonishing success. She is the most successful newcomer character out of Marvel Comics in this century, and did that not by mimmicking Carol Danvers. She isn't Carol Danvers with a different ethnic origin, she isn't a different gender version of the character, she isn't a different sexual orientation version of that character. She is her own person. And I'd argue that Kamala Khan is a better character than Carol Danvers has ever been so far because of this very reason.

Ms. Marvel feels genuine because it's written genuinely and people can tell that. Miles Morales, RiRi Williams and to a less extent Amadeus Cho fans might disagree on that, but these characters don't feel as genuine as they could simply because their origin superhero story are directly linked to the death/demise of their predecessors. Miles Morales, six years after his creation still feels like just Peter Parker with a different skin color. RiRi Williams feels like trying to replicate what Bendis did with Spider-Man but Iron Man instead. It's not me saying that Miles Morales and RiRi Williams can't evolve, eventually. It's me saying that Ms. Marvel will certainly keep going strong as long as G. Willow Wilson is attached to her and probably after that because there's a foundation, there's something real about the character. Kamala redefined who Ms. Marvel means and made it her own, thanks to Wilson. Fraction redefined what Hawkeye means and stands for both Clint and Kate, but repeating what it worked there ad nauseaum and basing it after deaths of iconic characters clearly isn't working.

There's room to real diverse voices in comics, both in Marvel and DC Comics. But they need to feel genuine. They need authenticity. And that's what most of these "diverse Marvel initiative" lacks.

Miles is nothing like Peter but it is so nice that after all these years you still no mater what cling to that with logic or the actual printed comics be damned, G Williow's point went completely over your head just so you could take a shot at Miles and any other legacy hero you don't like( but mainly Bendis )

[ijacksparrow]

Miles is nothing like Peter but it is so nice that after all these years you still no mater what cling to that with logic or the actual printed comics be damned, G Williow's point went completely over your head just so you could take a shot at Miles and any other legacy hero you don't like( but mainly Bendis )

Her first point is this:

1. This is a personal opinion, but IMO launching a legacy character by killing off or humiliating the original character sets the legacy character up for failure. Who wants a legacy if the legacy is shitty?

Which is exactly the origin premise for both Miles and RiRi, and to a less extent, also Sam's Nova and Cho's Hulk. Also, she says this:

2. Diversity as a form of performative guilt doesn’t work. Let’s scrap the word diversity entirely and replace it with authenticity and realism. This is not a new world. This is *the world.*

Which unlike G. Willow's Ms. Marvel, in my opinion and many others, that's exactly what both Mile and RiRi books feels like. You might think that I dislike Miles, but that's not true. There aren't bad characters, only badly written characters. Ms. Marvel wouldn't work as well if she was Captain Marvel at same time that Carol is Captain Marvel, it wouldn't work either if it didn't come from a genuine place like Ms. Marvel does. It's her opinion on the subject, and I agree with it. I feel that the future might hold better things for both Miles and RiRi, but as it stands one feels like a copycat and the other like a gimmick. Giving Miles a different identity isn't enough. Giving RiRi a different alter ego in Ironheart isn't enough. What they need is creators capable of making these characters authentic. Then people will start seeing them differently.

[ijacksparrow]

OP you would have a better point if those characters you mentioned didn't all sell better than Ms Marvel which you are bigging up.

Not true. G. Willow's said it herself:

If you’re going to write a smug thunk-piece about the “failure” of “diversity” in comics, maybe don’t use the cover image of a book that’s had 4 collections on the NYT graphic books bestseller list, won a Hugo and cleaned up at Angouleme. Just because you HOPE it’s on the chopping block, oh Riders of the Brohirrim, doesn’t mean it is.

4. The direct market and the book market have diverged. Never the twain shall meet. We need to accept this and move on, and market accordingly.

I'd argue that Ms. Marvel when you take into account the popularity of its whole run and how the character did all that being her own character that feels organic and rings true to the audiences, the audiences will find the book. The monthlies might not sell as well, but there's a reason why Ms. Marvel is so damn popular, and that can be explained with her sales via the book market and online.

[Wiccan]

OP you would have a better point if those characters you mentioned didn't all sell better than Ms Marvel which you are bigging up.

Well, that's because they have the Iron Man/Spider Man title, costume and powers. You can ask about these on the streets and people will know what you're talking about. "Ms Marvel" was never even close to that. Kamala also has completely different powers(and costume) from Carol. And she's also 10+ issues on her second run while Riri is on issue 5 of her first one.

[ijacksparrow]

Well, that's because they have the Iron Man/Spider Man title, costume and powers. You can ask about these on the streets and people will know what you're talking about. "Ms Marvel" was never even close to that. Kamala also has completely different powers(and costume) from Carol. And she's also 10+ issues on her second run while Riri is on issue 5 of her first one.

Not just that. Ms. Marvel probably sells better than those characters when you add up the trades and outside the direct market. If I had to guess who would be the character with more everlasting importance to Marvel Comics in the future, I'd say that's Kamala, not Miles, RiRi, Amadeus or Sam.

[Tiamatty]

The point about authenticity hits on another point: Most of these diverse characters are still being written by middle-aged (or older) straight white guys. And a lot of people are tired of that. Which is why a lot of readers are supporting smaller publishers and Kickstarters and webcomics. Riri is a young black girl, but she's being written by an old white dude, so how authentic can she really be? Then you compare that to something like Bingo Love, or Agents of the Realm, comics about black girls put out by black women, which makes them feel far more authentic.

And this is something Marvel does a lot. Really, virtually any time they have a truly high-profile book promoting diversity, the writers (and often the artists) are still the same old white guys. A female Thor! Dude writer. A black Captain America! White writer. A black/Hispanic Spider-Man! White writer. A Korean-American Hulk got a Korean-American writer, but when it comes to the major titles, Pak's the exception. If they had a trans woman take on the Black Widow mantle, you can be damned sure they wouldn't hire Magdalene Visaggio or Natalie Reed to write it, they'd give it to Aaron or Duggan. (Of course, Marvel seems reluctant to acknowledge trans existence at all, but still, it's a hypothetical.)

Marvel's dedication to diversity still struggles when it comes to the writers. The vast majority of their titles are still written by straight white men, especially their high-profile titles. And people see this, and the say, "Well, Marvel doesn't really care about my experiences, so I'll just buy this porn anthology from Iron Circus instead, because at least they care about minority voices."

[JKtheMac]

Although this post made many good points very well the things that interest me are the off message parts. The biggest off message point is the fact that the Direct Market and the Book Market have diverged to the point of no return. That seems to negate her opening point. There are key books that are selling well in both markets, and Marvel are trying to maintain that middle ground between both markets.

They are not in the business of producing books for twelve year olds. There may be an argument that they could be, but I would imagine Disney would see that as not their job. Also the MCU cash is the main payoff so the last thing anyone wants to do is shift the business model radically. Although, saying this we are hearing a small number of creatives making similar noises about the Direct Market not being the best way to sell their products. When Bendis obliquely mentioned this we had a big backlash from those invested in the Direct Market, and now, when Marvel allow their retail summit to be published openly we are seeing those same vested interests moaning and complaining.

So the underlying question is should Marvel radically change tack and move a sector of their business out of the direct market? Should they just stop making floppies of Squirrel Girl but instead make graphic novels aimed at the biggest market? Would this be a risk worth taking?

A lot has been written about the off-the-cuff comments from last year, that Marvel were fulfilling a Scholastic order. When I looked into this it seems it was a one-off order for a select number of the compiled first three issue books. Off the top of my head it was for just three of these books, but it would have been a very significant order from the publishing perspective.

Is it a problem that this order wasn't repeated? I would suggest it was. Surely Marvel's ideal would have been a repeat order of some trades, or a request for more of the same on the same characters, ie. the next three issues in a single book. But from what I could see Scholastic didn't return. If anyone has actually seen a Marvel presence at a Scholastic book fair I would be fascinated to know what the books were and when it was.

[rui no onna]

Although, saying this we are hearing a small number of creatives making similar noises about the Direct Market not being the best way to sell their products.

There's a reason why a lot of creatives have turned to free syndication via webcomics and then print via crowdfunding. You get a wider, global reach and you're reaching directly to fans instead of being a 2-4 line item buried in the Necronomicon that is the Previews catalog. Simple fact, unless you're Midtown, comic shops just can't afford to carry all the comics and graphic novels listed in Previews.

So the underlying question is should Marvel radically change tack and move a sector of their business out of the direct market? Should they just stop making floppies of Squirrel Girl but instead make graphic novels aimed at the biggest market? Would this be a risk worth taking?

Yes, I believe so. Don't bother with $3.99 floppies. Digital is the perfect platform for trying new series with low distribution costs. Bonus, customers don't need to preorder to guarantee a copy because there's unlimited supply and no risk of running out of stock.

Marvel could offer bite-sized digital serialization for $0.99 on comiXology, etc. similar to what DC does for Injustice, DC Comics Bombshells and DC Super Hero Girls. Or they could make it a Marvel Unlimited exclusive. I reckon Kindle+comiXology gives them wider reach though. One thing I'm noticing with Kindle bestsellers list, Super Sons and Teen Titans tend to rank higher there than on comiXology (at least taking DC overall rankings). With $50 Kindle Fire tablets, $80-100 Kindle Fire Kids Edition with coverage for accidental damage, and parental controls, these are the perfect tablets to give to kids so perhaps that's why? Then just release a graphic novel once you collect enough material.

The problem is Marvel seems to want instant payoff. Aside from flooding the direct market with product, they also cancel series that are selling below 20K before these series can even find an audience.

[JKtheMac]

However the scale that digital takes for big publishers, and the fact that the main costs are production (writing, drawing, editing) it is not actually very different selling a new book in paper and online. According to some interviews the difference is negligible. Print runs are relatively cheap in the numbers required but get prohibitive as soon as your sales start to drop hence the way Marvel cancel product.

The most interesting thing in the summit discussion is the concern at dropping trades below 50% of the cover value of the singles. Marvel are only concerned about that because it isn't in their interest to drive the shops out of business. Not because they couldn't do it tomorrow and still make a profit. But if they really want to ditch floppies of key books and focus on trades they would be moving a big chunk of their business into the online book market. Even more than they currently do.

[Anonymousmc]

The point about authenticity hits on another point: Most of these diverse characters are still being written by middle-aged (or older) straight white guys. And a lot of people are tired of that. Which is why a lot of readers are supporting smaller publishers and Kickstarters and webcomics. Riri is a young black girl, but she's being written by an old white dude, so how authentic can she really be? Then you compare that to something like Bingo Love, or Agents of the Realm, comics about black girls put out by black women, which makes them feel far more authentic.

And this is something Marvel does a lot. Really, virtually any time they have a truly high-profile book promoting diversity, the writers (and often the artists) are still the same old white guys. A female Thor! Dude writer. A black Captain America! White writer. A black/Hispanic Spider-Man! White writer. A Korean-American Hulk got a Korean-American writer, but when it comes to the major titles, Pak's the exception. If they had a trans woman take on the Black Widow mantle, you can be damned sure they wouldn't hire Magdalene Visaggio or Natalie Reed to write it, they'd give it to Aaron or Duggan. (Of course, Marvel seems reluctant to acknowledge trans existence at all, but still, it's a hypothetical.)

Marvel's dedication to diversity still struggles when it comes to the writers. The vast majority of their titles are still written by straight white men, especially their high-profile titles. And people see this, and the say, "Well, Marvel doesn't really care about my experiences, so I'll just buy this porn anthology from Iron Circus instead, because at least they care about minority voices."

Yes!!! Ive said it before and I will say it again until Marvel truly dedicates itself to hiring diverse writers to write all their characters, the whole "diversity" push is an obvious facade. Pak writing Hulk during 2007 and beyond was big because they gave this good writer of Asian descent a great opportunity to write one of their greatest and most popular characters.

The giving a legacy character a chance also speaks volumes in regards to characters like the Hulk too, since they killed Bruce and literally replaced him with Amadeus giving his character little chance at success. Lastly, I am also sick of white writers thinking they know how write for/in the perspective of people of color. There is no better example than Bendis on Miles Spider-Man. His depiction of Afro-Borikua family and character is non-existent. I do not feel Miles has the voice as a distinct and unique Spider-Man from a family with different culture and heritage as how Willow writes Ms Marvel or the recent writers of Nova. Miles need a writer that understands what it means to be an Afro-Borikua.

[Calaigah]

Yes!!! Ive said it before and I will say it again until Marvel truly dedicates itself to hiring diverse writers to write all their characters, the whole "diversity" push is an obvious facade.

THIS.

Diversity is a great thing but what Marvel is doing is faux-diversity, so they alienate those who want diversity AND does who want things to stay the same.

The fact that the main X title is being written by a straight white man who is in his own words "colorblind", just goes to show that regardless of how progressive they claim to be, they still don't get it.

IvX was basically about how minorities should always submit to the 1% and if they don't, then they're the bad guys! And despite writing crap like that, Marvel thinks they are about "diversity"? LMAO.