G. Willow Wilson on "that whole thing" concerning diversity in Marvel Comics

[Moriarty]

Easy, he has a good concepts/ideas for a new characters but his execution (ie: how he writes the characters) fails in its depiction of these characters.

exactly.

Bendis is a creative leach and a sub-par story teller.

pretty much.

[JediKage]

Meh it took Moon Knight what 32+ Years to get that shot theoretically cause it hasn't occurred yet.
Jessica Jones got it in in 14 Years. About half the time.
Miles Morales will get in under 10 Years. about a third of the time.
I do think Moon Knight will get a shot but glass houses. If your fav someone who has gotten chance after chance. Well you shouldn't be complaining about others getting chance after chance.

Yeah that is something that is also being missed. Why would you not make a derivative hero at Marvel or DC? Where is the incentive to create new IP for Marvel or DC? When there is a chance you can go on down to Image and cash in with a Walking Dead. Even if you don't hit that big at least you and the artist get to own that IP get a bigger cut of the sales and have the chance to flip that into a tv show, movie, etc. At the very least you can sell some merchandise and cash in on that. The Big 2 for most writers is about building up some named recognition so you can exit stage right and try to hit it big with your own IP. There is zero reason not to make a derivative hero for Marvel or DC.

[ijacksparrow]

Meh it took Moon Knight what 32+ Years to get that shot theoretically cause it hasn't occurred yet.
Jessica Jones got it in in 14 Years. About half the time.
Miles Morales will get in under 10 Years. about a third of the time.
I do think Moon Knight will get a shot but glass houses. If your fav someone who has gotten chance after chance. Well you shouldn't be complaining about others getting chance after chance.

This kind of piss contest doesn't really add to anything and it's quite childish, does it? And I'm not sure if you remind this, but this also happened in the past:

Yeah that is something that is also being missed. Why would you not make a derivative hero at Marvel or DC? Where is the incentive to create new IP for Marvel or DC? When there is a chance you can go on down to Image and cash in with a Walking Dead. Even if you don't hit that big at least you and the artist get to own that IP get a bigger cut of the sales and have the chance to flip that into a tv show, movie, etc. At the very least you can sell some merchandise and cash in on that. The Big 2 for most writers is about building up some named recognition so you can exit stage right and try to hit it big with your own IP. There is zero reason not to make a derivative hero for Marvel or DC.

My point exactly. Marvel and DC need to start getting on that and needs to get on that fast. Marvel Comics even more than DC Comics, because as I understand, Marvel's incentives are worse than DC's, like Hickman was discussion on his twitter months ago.

[JediKage]

I said he creates winners. He created Jessica Jones and Miles Morales. Didn't create MK. But your right it is a bit childish.

Still I can think other complaints besides Diversity. Endless Event Spamming and Excessive New Number Ones along with Too Many Variants certainly don't help.
Of those I blame Endless Event Spamming causes way too much disruption in most runs.

But yes people should listen to Hickman.

Also Inhumans never going to happen stop trying.

[Greekfire13]

Your standpoint seems a tad bit sugarcoated to me. I don't see two ways around what Wilson said and I think that sentiment resonates strongs here because it's exactly what me and many others think: Miles Morales, RiRi Williams, Sam Alexander and to a less extent, Amadeus Cho superhero origin stories were all poorly handed in the sense that they feel like a gimmick. Miles Morales doesn't have one single attribute to differ him from Peter Parker other than he's younger and with a different skin colour. RiRi Williams was sold like a genius character but never showed why, never really established.

My beef with Sam Wilson's Cap isn't because he isn't my Captain America. My beef there is the same I used to have with Nightwing being Batman: Neither Falcon or Nightwing need the shadow of Cap or Batman. Especially in Falcon's case because he's at his most popular right now with the Marvel Studios films. Luke Cage has become a popular mainstream phenomena thanks to the Netflix show. I think Spencer's Sam Wilson Cap book is extemely cool tho, and I understand why they went that way. It feels earned, even more so than when Bucky took over. With that said, I feel that eventually, Falcon needs to get his own book. Slowly creating demand, maybe. Make him important to Secret Empire, maybe not launching his book just afterwards Steve become the main Captain America again, but generating demand for it. Vision had a very strong series that is critically acclaimed and will keep selling trades. Hawkeye was the same thing, and same goes for Fraction's Iron Fist and Waid's and Samnees' Black Widow. Falcon deserves to shine on his own eventualy.

The road for characters like Ms. Marvel, Jane Thor and Falcon is easier than I'd say for the true "Marvel Comics diversity initiative" characters. These previous characters have already proven their worth. I honestly think that Pak is on with something with Cho's Hulk, but it's still not there yet. It's worse for the others. I feel like what both RiRi and Miles need is to find their Ta-Nehisi Coates, someone that is able to reinvent them, keep most of the fanbase and go further. They are not there yet. But like Moviebob said on the video above, it's sometimes a long and bumpy road. It could be easier if Marvel wasn't a mess right now tho.

Really? How so?

I can think of several ways in which Miles and Peter differ as characters. Also if Miles was "poorly handled" like you said then why has he continued to be successful for the past almost six years. I know that you don't like Miles but to use his character as an example here works to detract from your argument, not support it.

[LOSTie-chan]

But Marvel's trying to make a big deal out of their diverse characters, with the biggest examples almost all being written by the same old straight white guys. It rings pretty damn hollow, when they make a big deal out of Riri being a black girl, while they have never had an ongoing title written by a black woman. (They had a one-shot written by Nilah Magruder, and a mini written by a woman who's never before been involved with comics, because Marvel sucks at finding and promoting diverse writers who actually already work in comics.) It sends a very clear message: "We want your money, but not your voices."

God THIS!
I wish Marvel would stop hiring writers who never worked on comics before. It kills me cuz I know there's TONS of talented young comic writers and artists out there that would kill to work at Marvel.

[ijacksparrow]

Really? How so?

I can think of several ways in which Miles and Peter differ as characters. Also if Miles was "poorly handled" like you said then why has he continued to be successful for the past almost six years. I know that you don't like Miles but to use his character as an example here works to detract from your argument, not support it.

Miles is Bendis pet character and the one that Marvel Comics mostly pushed when it comes to their "diversity initiative". I'm 36 years old right now, and while I was royally pissed when Ultimate Peter Parker was killed off, that lead me to discover Dan Slott's Amazing Spider-Man and I've fallen in love with 616's Spider-Man and the 616 universe as a whole all over again because of that. This happened seven years ago tho. I've changed and I understand now that there's insane potential for Miles Morales as a character. But I still struggle to see anything about him that isn't Peter Parker but with a different skin color. Maybe I'm in a privileged position, because like him, I've a South American heritage. Maybe because I have some Afro-Boricua friends and maybe because I've followe Ultimate Spider-Man closely through years, I know for a fact that Miles feels more like a young Peter Parker than he never felt authentic to me like Kamala Khan does. My opinion now is that Miles needs someone to come along and redefine who he is. Someone that comes along, see the potential of that character, someone that identifies himself with the whole angle of an Afro-Boricua character living in New York and how that experience of life sets him apart of Peter Parker.

I don't really like Ben Reilly. In fact, I kinda hate him. Even after Clone Conspiracy. I think that whatever Slott set in motion to set him apart from Peter doesn't work and he will never have the potential that Miles Morales has. With that said, I love Peter David, and I want to support him. I love Mark Bagley's art with Spider-Man characters, so that goes a long way too. My point is that the idea of Miles Morales, the concept of who he is seems stronger to me than what we've been getting so far. I honestly don't care if he gets a new alter ego or not, but he definitely needs to become more than a concept. Something that is cool in idea but not in execution. You said that you can think of several ways in which Miles and Peter are different characters, and I can't think of any. I feel that there a lot of people that love the idea of the character, but are let down by its execution. Basically, Miles is a character that his origin story is so convoluted that it doesn't even makes sense why he is Spider-Man. He is Spider-Man because he got bitten by a spider, just like Spider-Man. While the idea that Miles took over the mantle because of Spider-Man's death in the Ultimate Universe barely worked there, now it doesn't even makes sense. He is Spider-Man... because. That's not good storytelling, and I'm not sure if they will ever get to fix that in the main universe. Eventually, I hope the character can keep going further. When I criticize the handle of the character, it's not because I hate him, it's because I don't want him to be a fluke. I don't want him to be Spider-Man 2099. I don't want him to be something that it's there and eventually isn't anymore. I want Miles to tap into its potential, either as Spider-Man or something else entirely. The world could always use more heroes, like Tracer says in my signature.

[Greekfire13]

Miles is Bendis pet character and the one that Marvel Comics mostly pushed when it comes to their "diversity initiative". I'm 36 years old right now, and while I was royally pissed when Ultimate Peter Parker was killed off, that lead me to discover Dan Slott's Amazing Spider-Man and I've fallen in love with 616's Spider-Man and the 616 universe as a whole all over again because of that. This happened seven years ago tho. I've changed and I understand now that there's insane potential for Miles Morales as a character. But I still struggle to see anything about him that isn't Peter Parker but with a different skin color. Maybe I'm in a privileged position, because like him, I've a South American heritage. Maybe because I have some Afro-Boricua friends and maybe because I've followe Ultimate Spider-Man closely through years, I know for a fact that Miles feels more like a young Peter Parker than he never felt authentic to me like Kamala Khan does. My opinion now is that Miles needs someone to come along and redefine who he is. Someone that comes along, see the potential of that character, someone that identifies himself with the whole angle of an Afro-Boricua character living in New York and how that experience of life sets him apart of Peter Parker.

I don't really like Ben Reilly. In fact, I kinda hate him. Even after Clone Conspiracy. I think that whatever Slott set in motion to set him apart from Peter doesn't work and he will never have the potential that Miles Morales has. With that said, I love Peter David, and I want to support him. I love Mark Bagley's art with Spider-Man characters, so that goes a long way too. My point is that the idea of Miles Morales, the concept of who he is seems stronger to me than what we've been getting so far. I honestly don't care if he gets a new alter ego or not, but he definitely needs to become more than a concept. Something that is cool in idea but not in execution. You said that you can think of several ways in which Miles and Peter are different characters, and I can't think of any. I feel that there a lot of people that love the idea of the character, but are let down by its execution. Eventually, I hope the character can keep going further. Either as Spider-Man or something else entirely. The world could always use more heroes, like Tracer says in my signature.

But that's the thing, Miles isn't the one they pushed the most. I'd argue that was Ms. Marvel if anything. To this day Miles hasn't gotten more press or promotion than he did when he first debuted in the Ultimate Universe back in 2011. Since then he has gotten seemingly less and less promotion. Especially when he was in the dying Ultimate Universe and yet he still made it work. I'd argue in the past 3 or 4 years he's gotten less promotion than a bunch of characters including Ms. Marvel, Nova, Stark, etc.

Honestly I'd say Miles came before Marvel's "diversity initiative", so I think it's pointless to mention him in all this. I think the "initiative" began with Marvel Now in 2012. Miles, who was introduced in 2011, was a new character that debuted in an alternate universe that just happened to be half African-American half Hispanic. It was his character not a push by Marvel that made him successful. In your post you brought up Miles' heritage. Miles' father is African American and his mother is Boricua. I am an African American male myself. I'm not the most familiar with Latin culture but since Miles grew up in a culturally blended home wouldn't he exhibit aspects of both cultures? I've read Miles' series from the start and I think overall Bendis has done a pretty good job when covering things pertaining to his fathers side. Over time I've noticed that Miles seems to be a bit more in tune with his father's side actually than his mothers but it appears Bendis plans to rectify that somewhat this year.

As far as the differences between Miles and Peter are concerned. There are quite a few differences between the characters. There are several more general differences between the two I could name but I'll get to some of the more specific ones. Miles is more of a realist, for one, than Peter is. Peter always seems to fall back to what would Uncle Ben do when faced with moral decisions. Miles doesn't have someone like that and so he at times looks around at older heroes or he figures it out himself. Most of the time he figures it out himself. So as such he's less idealistic than Peter is about the world. And unlike Peter, Miles is Spider-Man because others foisted it upon him. They dragged him into doing it. Also Miles doesn't hold back nearly as much as Peter when he fights. He hasn't killed anyone yet except maybe his spoilers:

uncle

end of spoilers but many times without much care at all he has put his opponents lives at risk. Miles is a hero sure, but not even he knows if that is ultimately who he really wants to be or who he really is. You see Miles motivations are very different from Peter's. Miles' heroism is not so much based on who he is but on what he believes he is not. He represses certain tendencies he has for fear of allowing them to overcome him.

Unlike his uncle he wants to be the good guy, but isn't. At least not entirely.

[ijacksparrow]

But that's the thing, Miles isn't the one they pushed the most. I'd argue that was Ms. Marvel if anything. To this day Miles hasn't gotten more press or promotion than he did when he first debuted in the Ultimate Universe back in 2011. Since then he has gotten seemingly less and less promotion. Especially when he was in the dying Ultimate Universe and yet he still made it work. I'd argue in the past 3 or 4 years he's gotten less promotion than a bunch of characters including Ms. Marvel, Nova, Stark, etc.

Honestly I'd say Miles came before Marvel's "diversity initiative", so I think it's pointless to mention him in all this. I think the "initiative" began with Marvel Now in 2012. Miles, who was introduced in 2011, was a new character that debuted in an alternate universe that just happened to be half African-American half Hispanic. It was his character not a push by Marvel that made him successful. In your post you brought up Miles' heritage. Miles' father is African American and his mother is Boricua. I am an African American male myself. I'm not the most familiar with Latin culture but since Miles grew up in a culturally blended home wouldn't he exhibit aspects of both cultures? I've read Miles' series from the start and I think overall Bendis has done a pretty good job when covering things pertaining to his fathers side. Over time I've noticed that Miles seems to be a bit more in tune with his father's side actually than his mothers but it appears Bendis plans to rectify that somewhat this year.

As far as the differences between Miles and Peter are concerned. There are quite a few differences between the characters. There are several more general differences between the two I could name but I'll get to some of the more specific ones. Miles is more of a realist, for one, than Peter is. Peter always seems to fall back to what would Uncle Ben do when faced with moral decisions. Miles doesn't have someone like that and so he at times looks around at older heroes or he figures it out himself. Most of the time he figures it out himself. So as such he's less idealistic than Peter is about the world. And unlike Peter, Miles is Spider-Man because others foisted it upon him. They dragged him into doing it. Also Miles doesn't hold back nearly as much as Peter when he fights. He hasn't killed anyone yet except maybe his spoilers:

uncle

end of spoilers but many times without much care at all he has put his opponents lives at risk. Miles is a hero sure, but not even he knows if that is ultimately who he really wants to be or who he really is. You see Miles motivations are very different from Peter's. Miles' heroism is not so much based on who he is but on what he believes he is not. He represses certain tendencies he has for fear of allowing them to overcome him.

Unlike his uncle he wants to be the good guy, but isn't. At least not entirely.

With all due respect, but I call it bullshit. Realist? He's a hero but he's not sure? Very different motivations to heroism not based on who he is but based on what he is not?(!) What uncle? The one from the Ultimate Universe? When that happened? Seriously, regardless how much his hardcore fans like him and I respect you for that, Miles Morales doesn't work as a character right now. As an idea? As something empowering to other kids and that makes for some great cosplays and merch? Hell yes. As a character? Still pretty much Peter Parker with a different color skin that speaks "abuela". That's less of characterization that a cajun character than Claremont did with Gambit on his hay days, and that was also bad. At the very least Gambit had his own name and quirks unlike the other X-Men. Right now, Miles as a character still feels like an aesthetic change to Spider-Man, not really a fully fleshed out character. Hell, Spider-Gwen feels more like a character than he does, and she was basically an accident not thought out as a monthly comic.

[Greekfire13]

With all due respect, but I call it bullshit. Realist? He's a hero but he's not sure? Very different motivations to heroism not based on who he is but based on what he is not?(!) What uncle? The one from the Ultimate Universe? When that happened? Seriously, regardless how much his hardcore fans like him and I respect you for that, Miles Morales doesn't work as a character right now. As an idea? As something empowering to other kids and that makes for some great cosplays and merch? Hell yes. As a character? Still pretty much Peter Parker with a different color skin that speaks "abuela". That's less of a characterization of a cajun character than Claremont did with Gambit on his hay days, and that was also bad.

Ok, I'll explain it more just to give you more context. I'll start by making this clear. Everything that happened in the ultimate universe happened and Miles remembers it all. Miles' inner conflict about being a superhero is what led to him quiting being Spider-Man for a whole year after his mothers death. He redonned the suit only after Spider-Woman, Ganke, and others sort of forced him to. Being Spider-Man was a duty that was foisted upon him by others and he for the moment has accepted that duty. Miles has always grappled with some of the things that he perceives he shares with his uncle and his father. Both his father and his uncle were involved with crime at one time or another. His uncle was just a very bad guy. Part of Miles motivations for being a superhero are to prove to himself that he is not like his father or his uncle in those regards. But while doing this many times he feels that he may be overcome like I said by some of these tendencies he represses. There is a scan I could show you if you want that encapsulates all this but I must warn you there are a lot of spoilers in it.

Once again, I must say this Miles father is African American and his mother is Hispanic. I had friends of that same background growing up that couldn't even speak Spanish and for those that could it was only barely. Also you make it sound like Miles mother is Afro-Boricua, which she isn't. Neither of his parents are. So like I said Miles grew up in a culturally blended home and he exhibits that, though it is clear he seems more in tune with his fathers culture at this point.

And Miles is a realist. Peter generally thinks that people can change for the better while Miles simply does not. It shows in how they deal with their enemies. Peter has the ability to show sympathy for his while Miles does not.

[ijacksparrow]

Ok, I'll explain it more just to give you more context. I'll start by making this clear. Everything that happened in the ultimate universe happened and Miles remembers it all. Miles' inner conflict about being a superhero is what led to him quiting being Spider-Man for a whole year after his mothers death. He redonned the suit only after Spider-Woman, Ganke, and others sort of forced him to. Being Spider-Man was a duty that was foisted upon him by others and he for the moment has accepted that duty. Miles has always grappled with some of the things that he perceives he shares with his uncle and his father. Both his father and his uncle were involved with crime at one time or another. His uncle was just a very bad guy. Part of Miles motivations for being a superhero are to prove to himself that he is not like his father or his uncle in those regards. But while doing this many times he feels that he may be overcome like I said by some of these tendencies he represses. There is a scan I could show you if you want that encapsulates all this but I must warn you there are a lot of spoilers in it.

Once again, I must say this Miles father is African American and his mother is Hispanic. I had friends of that same background growing up that couldn't even speak Spanish and for those that could it was only barely. Also you make it sound like Miles mother is Afro-Boricua, which she isn't. Neither of his parents are. So like I said Miles grew up in a culturally blended home and he exhibits that, though it is clear he seems more in tune with his fathers culture at this point.

And Miles is a realist. Peter generally thinks that people can change for the better while Miles simply does not. It shows in how they deal with their enemies. Peter has the ability to show sympathy for his while Miles does not.

This is honestly pointless. If you can't explain in very simple terms what a character is about, you have a contrived and convoluted character in your hands. Cable is a character with a convoluted origin story and even him has a simple origin than him. Morales origin is Spider-Man from other universe that was bitten by a genetically altered spider that becomes Spider-Man after the Spider-Man that was Peter Parker dies, but not really and keeps being Spider-Man... because. Oh, he is from a different universe that died and everyone died and he remembers everything but never mentions because reasons. Miles Morales represents something important: a black hispanic character that has Spider-Man powers. But as it stands right now, regardless how amazingly well drawn he has been by several hot artists in the industry, he still is an alternate skin. And that's way too little to what he can actually become. Maybe when his animated film is out he will finally get fleshed out but right now? With Bendis at helm? Seven years going and still nope.

[Kieran_Frost]

Gotta love Wilson talking truths; so much of what she said conjures up parallels to the glorious Young Avengers by Kieron Gillen. It knew itself, it new what it wanted to be and it didn't compromise or apologies for it. That's why it worked! Keep spreading the good word, Wilson

[Greekfire13]

This is honestly pointless. If you can't explain in very simple terms what a character is about, you have a contrived and convoluted character in your hands. Cable is a character with a convoluted origin story and even him has a simple origin than him. Morales origin is Spider-Man from other universe that was bitten by a genetically altered spider that becomes Spider-Man after the Spider-Man that was Peter Parker dies, but not really and keeps being Spider-Man... because. Oh, he is from a different universe that died and everyone died and he remembers everything but never mentions because reasons. Miles Morales represents something important: a black hispanic character that has Spider-Man powers. But as it stands right now, regardless how amazingly well drawn he has been by several hot artists in the industry, he still is an alternate skin. And that's way too little to what he can actually become. Maybe when his animated film is out he will finally get fleshed out but right now? With Bendis at helm? Seven years going and still nope.

It is mentioned/alluded to though.

I'm not getting what your point is. Miles is a complex character and there is nothing wrong with that. And his origin story was the whole of his first volume Ultimate Comics: Ultimate Spider-Man. I liked the expanded origin it gives the character more depth. If readers are supposedly confused by it then why is he currently having his most successful run since his first run? Why is he doing so much better than characters that have "simple" origins? I get it you don't like the character but there are a great many people that do. Complex origin or not.

Besides you can simplify his origin quite easily for a movie if you wanted to. Miles is bitten by a genetically modified spider and gets spider powers. Miles becomes Spider-Man. His uncle tries to use him for personal gain. They have a falling out and spoilers:

his uncle

end of spoilers dies, technically at Miles hands. Soon after having been shaken by this, his mother and father are seriously harmed by a monstrous new villain and once again it happened because he's Spider-man. Miles quits. A couple months later Peter Parker confronts him and urges him to become Spider-Man again. After a lot of prodding by Peter and others he becomes Spider-Man once again this time fully accepting his duty and realizing why the world needs him to be Spider-Man. Otherwise who would hold corporations like Roxxon in check. This time Miles is determined to prove to himself he is not like his father or his uncle. He is a hero, he is Spider-Man. Finally he takes down those who are responsible for what happened to he and his family. I could easily simplify it even more.

Miles is bitten by a genetically modified spider and gets spider powers. He naively sets out to be a hero. His uncle tries to use him for personal gain. They have a falling out and spoilers:

his uncle

end of spoilers dies at Miles hands. Shaken by this and his uncles final words Miles quits for a while. After some sincere reflection and some prodding from those closest to him he accepts the world needs him to be Spider-Man. He then ends up taking down Roxxon for their actions towards his family and so many others. End of origin.

You could probably put that together into one whole movie as opposed to focusing on it in the first part of a movie. His uncle, his father, and Roxxon are such big parts of his origin story that they deserve that.

[Bl00dwerK]

1. This is a personal opinion, but IMO launching a legacy character by killing off or humiliating the original character sets the legacy character up for failure. Who wants a legacy if the legacy is shitty?

3. Never try to be the next whoever. Be the first and only you. People smell BS a mile away.

These two things EXACTLY. I like reading about new characters but I don't want a rehash of characters I've been reading for decades. X23, for example. I don't want to read about another Wolverine.

[dreyga2000]

My 2 cents Peter and Miles are very different.

Miles isn't the lonely nerd kid, he has lots of friends and is a cool kid.

Miles isn't an orphan both his parents are alive.

Miles doesn't have Peter's guilt issues nor does suffer the Parker luck.

Miles has plenty of people that he can confide to about his life as Spider-Man.

Miles isn't a genius.

Miles doesn't struggle with money issues.