G. Willow Wilson on "that whole thing" concerning diversity in Marvel Comics

[MindofShadow]

You would think but ones like Rocket getting a relaunch and Mosaic, Moon Girl, the new Wasp and more under preforming titles staying around but cutting Ghost Rider, Spider Woman, Silk, and Moon Knight (I'm sure we'll see a relaunch of most of these again but it will be the 3rd for GR and only a few years) sells is one but not the only driving force used to determine popularity.

Underperforming by the one metric fans can see (diamond)... a metric that is getting less and less important.

And mosaic got straight up cancelled to the point the second trade won't even be a full trade and they are padding with UI stuff.

[Tycon]

I suggest you read the most recent arc of Totally Awesome Bulk as it encapsulates what it means to be your own hero and forge your own identity. I also think that it's time that Miles and Riri got different writers, like David Walker or Myisha Haynes and Amandla Stenberg co-writing.

[rui no onna]

Underperforming by the one metric fans can see (diamond)... a metric that is getting less and less important.

And mosaic got straight up cancelled to the point the second trade won't even be a full trade and they are padding with UI stuff.

The thing is if Diamond sales are as unimportant to Marvel and they're making money elsewhere, they wouldn't be cancelling these titles in the first place. They'll just ignore all the naysayers. They probably wouldn't have held the retailer summit, either.

[gurkle]

That's why it usually makes more sense to talk about how long a particular comic or status quo lasted, rather than looking at the Diamond numbers as the be-all and end-all. If a title got canceled quickly then we can assume it was a failure even if a comparable, longer-running title had lower Diamond numbers.

Like, I'm not sure how Bendis's Iron Man sold exactly, but since they went from "we're going to make Tony Stark our flagship character" to "here's a new character to replace Tony Stark" pretty quickly...

[skyvolt2000]

The thing is if Diamond sales are as unimportant to Marvel and they're making money elsewhere, they wouldn't be cancelling these titles in the first place. They'll just ignore all the naysayers. They probably wouldn't have held the retailer summit, either.

You can use it but don't make it your ONLY source of choice like many want to do with any book that is POC, LBGT or Inhumans.

Do you ax Moon Girl or Squirrel Girl when they do better outside your comic book store as trades.

Do you ax Moon Girl if out of those 8K books ordered 7K are actually bought. So you can offer more leeway for a book that despite numbers does not feature a lot of unsold copies.

Do you look at your stores in question-there are a lot of stores that will NOT sell a book if the lead is a POC, LGBT or Inhuman or every if the creative team is POC. We saw all that.

If you have a plan for that character beyond the comics. Ie-having plenty of trades available before the movie.

The point is you look at every angle. Remember you got 100 different ways to get a book beyond the comic book store.

I also think that it's time that Miles and Riri got different writers, like David Walker or Myisha Haynes and Amandla Stenberg co-writing.

It's call PROTECTING your baby. Not everyone cares for those two.

Look at Static under the editorship of McDuffie we got a 4 year run and tv show.

Under DC-we got a solo book done by a guy who NEVER wrote a comic and Static in a bad Teen Titans run-both used as weapons by trolls to keep him out of comics.

While the folks you named could do a great job with them as Walker's Cyborg run proved-if your editor doesn't care or won't let you do your job-you get bad results as Cyborg & Static proved. Since they both had the same editor.

[Moon Ronin]

Underperforming by the one metric fans can see (diamond)... a metric that is getting less and less important.

And mosaic got straight up cancelled to the point the second trade won't even be a full trade and they are padding with UI stuff.

Mosaic should have never made it to the first trade much less part of a second. Though it would seem that Marvel doomed the book from the start with a $5 first issue, I balk at $5 issues of books I buy on the reg I'm not gonna take a chance on some one that got a "soft push" in one panel of a Inhuman's book. Marvel really wanted him to be popular and did every thing wrong to do and in the end it is "failed diversity" that is to be blamed for his downfall.

I will agree that Diamond is becoming irrelevant as a pulse for today's comic popularity but its influence is't dead yet. If it was the upcoming retailer summit would not get the attention that is getting when it comes feedback.

[4sake Baned]

I suggest you read the most recent arc of Totally Awesome Bulk as it encapsulates what it means to be your own hero and forge your own identity. I also think that it's time that Miles and Riri got different writers, like David Walker or Myisha Haynes and Amandla Stenberg co-writing.

Yes!!! Ive said it before and I will say it again until Marvel truly dedicates itself to hiring diverse writers to write all their characters, the whole "diversity" push is an obvious facade. Pak writing Hulk during 2007 and beyond was big because they gave this good writer of Asian descent a great opportunity to write one of their greatest and most popular characters.

The giving a legacy character a chance also speaks volumes in regards to characters like the Hulk too, since they killed Bruce and literally replaced him with Amadeus giving his character little chance at success. Lastly, I am also sick of white writers thinking they know how write for/in the perspective of people of color. There is no better example than Bendis on Miles Spider-Man. His depiction of Afro-Borikua family and character is non-existent. I do not feel Miles has the voice as a distinct and unique Spider-Man from a family with different culture and heritage as how Willow writes Ms Marvel or the recent writers of Nova. Miles need a writer that understands what it means to be an Afro-Borikua.

I agree completely..

[rui no onna]

You can use it but don't make it your ONLY source of choice like many want to do with any book that is POC, LBGT or Inhumans.

Do you ax Moon Girl or Squirrel Girl when they do better outside your comic book store as trades.

Do you ax Moon Girl if out of those 8K books ordered 7K are actually bought. So you can offer more leeway for a book that despite numbers does not feature a lot of unsold copies.

Do you look at your stores in question-there are a lot of stores that will NOT sell a book if the lead is a POC, LGBT or Inhuman or every if the creative team is POC. We saw all that.

If you have a plan for that character beyond the comics. Ie-having plenty of trades available before the movie.

The point is you look at every angle. Remember you got 100 different ways to get a book beyond the comic book store.

Marvel doesn't actually care if 4K, 5K, 6K, 7K or even 8K out of 8K of Moon Girl sold. Once Marvel sells to comic shops, that's it. They get paid for all 8K. What they care about is the 8K sold likely doesn't generate enough money to even pay the creative team. A non-issue if it were generating gobs and gobs of money elsewhere or if Marvel is willing to play the long game.

Besides, it's not the comic shops that choose to cancel titles. It's Marvel that's not giving these titles leeway to find an audience whether that be schools, book market, digital single issues or even Marvel Unlimited. They want all the new characters introduced (practically all at the same time, mind) to be instant hits like Ms. Marvel was and when it didn't happen, Marvel's blaming diversity instead of poor management and planning.

[Tiamatty]

It'd be great to see more diverse writers at Marvel. But I find the idea that a person MUST be of the same race or orientation as the character they write to be both offensive and wrong. There are just too many novels out there written by all types of different people that have wide casts of well written characters from different experiences. Comics shouldn't be any different considering even the best comic books generally struggle to measure up to a mediocre novel in writing ability.

Sure. I think Al Ewing's been doing excellent work with diverse casts. I think Robbie Thompson's done a fantastic job with Silk, a Korean-American. Any writer can write a character of any race that they want, and if the writer is good, they'll do a good job.

And I'd also love to see more writers who aren't straight white men get to write books about other characters. I want Kate Leth on Spider-Man. I want Mariko Tamaki on Uncanny X-Men.

But Marvel's trying to make a big deal out of their diverse characters, with the biggest examples almost all being written by the same old straight white guys. It rings pretty damn hollow, when they make a big deal out of Riri being a black girl, while they have never had an ongoing title written by a black woman. (They had a one-shot written by Nilah Magruder, and a mini written by a woman who's never before been involved with comics, because Marvel sucks at finding and promoting diverse writers who actually already work in comics.) It sends a very clear message: "We want your money, but not your voices."

[Ra-El]

You can use it but don't make it your ONLY source of choice like many want to do with any book that is POC, LBGT or Inhumans.

Do you ax Moon Girl or Squirrel Girl when they do better outside your comic book store as trades.

Do you ax Moon Girl if out of those 8K books ordered 7K are actually bought. So you can offer more leeway for a book that despite numbers does not feature a lot of unsold copies.

Do you look at your stores in question-there are a lot of stores that will NOT sell a book if the lead is a POC, LGBT or Inhuman or every if the creative team is POC. We saw all that.

If you have a plan for that character beyond the comics. Ie-having plenty of trades available before the movie.

The point is you look at every angle. Remember you got 100 different ways to get a book beyond the comic book store.






It's call PROTECTING your baby. Not everyone cares for those two.

Look at Static under the editorship of McDuffie we got a 4 year run and tv show.

Under DC-we got a solo book done by a guy who NEVER wrote a comic and Static in a bad Teen Titans run-both used as weapons by trolls to keep him out of comics.

While the folks you named could do a great job with them as Walker's Cyborg run proved-if your editor doesn't care or won't let you do your job-you get bad results as Cyborg & Static proved. Since they both had the same editor.

I have no love for Cyborg, but Static was huge here on Brasil because of the tv show, DC lost some major oportunit with him.

[Moriarty]

But Marvel's trying to make a big deal out of their diverse characters, with the biggest examples almost all being written by the same old straight white guys. It rings pretty damn hollow, when they make a big deal out of Riri being a black girl, while they have never had an ongoing title written by a black woman. (They had a one-shot written by Nilah Magruder, and a mini written by a woman who's never before been involved with comics, because Marvel sucks at finding and promoting diverse writers who actually already work in comics.) It sends a very clear message: "We want your money, but not your voices."

agreed. i think Riri is interesting and shows a lot of promise. but the problem is Bendis.

[MindofShadow]

Double edge sword tho.

Without bendis, there is a very good chance she wouldn't exist or end uplike mosaic

[Moriarty]

Double edge sword tho.

Without bendis, there is a very good chance she wouldn't exist or end uplike mosaic

right. if the series were called Iron Heart instead of Iron Man i wonder how well it would sell.

[rui no onna]

right. if the series were called Iron Heart instead of Iron Man i wonder how well it would sell.

If Marvel didn't have a million other titles released every month, it may actually have a chance. Or don't force the characters into solo monthlies right away. Have a Marvel Comics Presents or something with rotating characters (not sure if I read that recommendation here or another thread) to build a bigger fanbase.

[mugiwara]

agreed. i think Riri is interesting and shows a lot of promise. but the problem is Bendis.

I don't get it. Bendis is her creator the only writer she ever had so far. then how can she be interesting and promising if Bendis is the problem?