Why doesn't DC do more with the OTHER BATGIRLS in Batman's history ?

[Godlike13]

If you say they made an exception which led to each of them getting either a solo or being the lead character in a team/group book, that's kind of a glaring exception. That sounds more like a policy.

You can't have it both ways - either there's money to be made with legacy characters (as long as they're Robins) or not (as long as they're Batgirls). When has DC really tried monetizing the Batgirls? I think if they decided to put them in Super Hero Girls, there's a good chance they'd have at least as much of a chance as Bumblebee or Katana or many of the less recognizable heros. Because it's all about marketing and getting the right people to design and tell stories about them.

Unfortunately its not that simple. There's money to be made with some legacy characters and not so much with others. Im sure DC would love if they all just sold, but that not how it works. Nightwing moves around 100,000 issues a month for DC. If Oracle could do that DC most likely would have kept her and the others around instead of trying to streamline focus on to just one Batgirl. And sure if they decided to put them in things like Super Hero Girls there would be more of a market for them, but the people who run the comics don't necessarily make those calls.

[MajorHoy]

. . . Nightwing moves around 100,000 issues a month for DC . . .

In the February 2017 numbers from Diamond,
* 36th - Nightwing #14 - 42,656 copies
* 39th - Nightwing #15 - 41,423 copies

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...7/2017-02.html

[Godlike13]

Ok, Nightwing moves 84,079 issues a month (not counting digital and whatever else Diamond doesn't count).

[oasis1313]

Ok, Nightwing moves 84,079 issues a month (not counting digital and whatever else Diamond doesn't count).

One of their best-selling characters in spite of everything negative done to him. Glad to see the Super-Sons selling so well. Wow, Batman sells a lot--I guess that means that EVERYBODY just totally loves Duke Thomas and is buying the book just for him--wow, he's so popular! Will be curious to see how Batwoman #2 sells in comparison to #1.

[Orujo-man]

I now understand where the general public's perception of comic book fans as that fat guy from the Simpsons comes from. The detachment from reality is outstanding.

To answer original post Because Babs is the Batgirl the world knows like how up til recently Robin was always Dick Grayson. It makes it less confusing and convoluted for the public I guess

Plus Batgirl doesn't get as much outside gigs like Robin there are limited opportunities to go around However Spoiler was in YJ and that opportunity was tanked by CN so maybe CN is also in on this conspiracy.

I wouldn't call it detachment from reality, it's more like fans being extremely fans.

DC employees and writers can said what they want to the fans, good or bad, in twitter, facebook other media etc. but in the end comics are a business and DC is a company whose main purpose is to earn money.

I'm no doubt they want to make good stories and if they can content the fans, they do that (or at least they try), but first of all it's the money. Personal preferences doesn't matter here.

People can't manage a business and be guided by what they prefer or hate, they be guided for what they think is the best for the company. Another thing it's the sucessful of that decisions.

[millernumber1]

I wouldn't call it detachment from reality, it's more like fans being extremely fans.

DC employees and writers can said what they want to the fans, good or bad, in twitter, facebook other media etc. but in the end comics are a business and DC is a company whose main purpose is to earn money.

I'm no doubt they want to make good stories and if they can content the fans, they do that (or at least they try), but first of all it's the money. Personal preferences doesn't matter here.

People can't manage a business and be guided by what they prefer or hate, they be guided for what they think is the best for the company. Another thing it's the sucessful of that decisions.

You act like writing good stories is a widget machine. Writers and artists do what they do for the job, yes, but they also tend to shape the job so they can tell stories they like. Which is why JT4 brought back his 90s faves, and why Snyder creates so many pets and fake science, and why Tomasi tells father-son stories all the time. You can't just say "they write to the sales", because writing doesn't work that way.

[Man-Thing]

Going to step in for a minute to ask what might be some good pre-modern Batwoman trades for Bette reading?

[Assam]

Going to step in for a minute to ask what might be some good pre-modern Batwoman trades for Bette reading?

There aren't any. Prior to becoming part of Modern Batwoman's supporting cast, Bette's appearences were VERY scattered. I just compiled a brief list of good ones on the Bette thread though, and here they are:
Beast Boy #1- #4: A really fun mini-series. Bette doesn't show up till near the end, but she makes a Hell of an entrance.

Titans Vol 1. #35-#36: Beast Boy and Bette come to visit the adult Titans, hoping to form a new Titans East, and end up battling the Wildebeest Society.

Young Justice #21: With the real Young Justice out of commission, Bette basically leads a team consisting of Beast Boy, CM3, Lagoon Boy, and Cassandra Cain. Like all issues of Young Justice, it's awesome.

[Orujo-man]

You act like writing good stories is a widget machine. Writers and artists do what they do for the job, yes, but they also tend to shape the job so they can tell stories they like. Which is why JT4 brought back his 90s faves, and why Snyder creates so many pets and fake science, and why Tomasi tells father-son stories all the time. You can't just say "they write to the sales", because writing doesn't work that way.

Not so sure about that. I didn't said that writers hate his job or don't put part of their "soul" in their work, but like in any other job they make a contract with the company and it's very dificult to know where ends the creative freedom of the writer and where the editorial mandate begin.

And it's a little sad to said it, but writting is a business, maybe not as others, but business after all.

[dietrich]

I wouldn't call it detachment from reality, it's more like fans being extremely fans.

DC employees and writers can said what they want to the fans, good or bad, in twitter, facebook other media etc. but in the end comics are a business and DC is a company whose main purpose is to earn money.

I'm no doubt they want to make good stories and if they can content the fans, they do that (or at least they try), but first of all it's the money. Personal preferences doesn't matter here.

People can't manage a business and be guided by what they prefer or hate, they be guided for what they think is the best for the company. Another thing it's the sucessful of that decisions.

Exactly this I don't understand why some have to create these illogical conspiracy theories in their minds. Businesses exist to make money everything they do is geared towards that objective.
No executive is going to be risking their job or reputation for the sake of their favourite comic character if that were the case Tim Drake will not have fared so badly under Didio and Kon would not have gotten messed up and limbo-ed under Johns. These are their personal favourites but they were unable to push them despite being in power. There's a lot going on behind the scenes that we're not privy to so many factors go into these decisions it not just comics or what we [the fans] see.

[sunofdarkchild]

It would be nice if DC and Marvel just made sound business decisions and didn't ruin comics and characters because of the biases of individual editors and writers, but there are plenty of cases where it's known to be what happened. Marvel is somewhat less secretive so it's easier to bring examples from that side.

Going back to the 80s, Cyclops was made into a deadbeat dad who ran out on his wife and newborn baby to be with his old girlfriend and the best X-Men story of all time was robbed of all of its meaning just because one writer, Kurt Busiek, couldn't get over his anger at Jean Grey dying in the Dark Phoenix Saga.

In the 2000s, Marvel made Spider-Man make a deal with the devil and erase his 20-year marriage from continuity because editor Joe Quesada doesn't like the idea of a grown-up Peter Parker. Decimation also happened to the X-Men because of Quesada's personal bias.

Specific instances are perhaps harder to find at DC but if it happens at Marvel it likely happens at DC as well.

In terms of using other characters in other media, had the Warner excecutives been willing to take more risks with lesser-known characters there is a good chance the the DC movies wouldn't be playing catchup to the MCU right now. Marvel has proven that c or d-list properties like Guardians of the Galaxy or Ant-Man can become successful movies. The aversion to risk is part of what is killing the DCEU.

[Malachi]

Thanks for the facts, though I'm still super, super skeptical of the "Snyder wanted to use Cass, but had to create Harper" claim, since I've been searching for it for literally four years, and can't find a single printed source for it.

Adam Beechen said in an interview just before Steph took the Batgirl cowl that Pete Tomasi was actually not his first editor on Robin, I believe, so it's difficult to really tell who dictated Evil Cass. Berganza did have a harassment scandal, but he's still group editor of the Superman office, though DC pretty severely restricted him and required him to have serious psychological treatment.

DC in general has trolled fans of Steph and Cass at cons.

We can definitely thank Snyder and Tynion for bringing Steph and Cass back. Both Eternals were Tynion's babies, and Snyder lent his weight to the effort to make sure it got past editorial resistance.

I also love Gates of Gotham, but wouldn't mind a bit more Cass focus.

They Snyder quote might have been in a podcast. I remember listening to one about Snyder when he was asked Cass questions, thought it could have been only Gates of Gotham questions. I wish I could link you a single source but it was some years a go. Have you found quotes about Harper been invented because he couldn't use who he really wanted? One might lead to the other.

Beechen was quite candid about editorial handing him the idea when taking over the title. He personally had no idea who Cass was if I remember correctly. I haven't checked the issues for some years but I believe that Tomasi quit right before OYL. Beechen stated that the idea was made by editorial before he got there so one would assume Tomasi was involved. Since I really liked his Green Lantern Corps issues I would be glad if he wasn't involved in that mess.

If I remember correctly Lil'Gotham had to change someones haircolor(Steph I think) just becasue it it couldn't use said character. It was a real lowpoint of bad editorial. There is a difference when a company doesn't publish some characters because they see profit in publishing another and when they go out of their way to make sure that already printed background/onepanel stuff in a out of continuity children/humour book is changed.

[The Kid]

A strange decision to reboot the universe. It's much clearer that Barbara, Stephanie, and Cassandra can all co-exist at the same time. I mean we got 4 Robins basically running around

[Aahz]

They made an exception with the Robins. Which was probably a mistake because it did clutter up their new timeline and created a number of problems for them and the Robins. I know Nightwing would have definitely benefited from them streamlining the Robins. Like his history with the Titans then probably wouldn't have been cut, and it would have left them with more opportunities to maximize him. Also probably the role of Robin would have then looked less like a passing internship. Instead they kept them all and tried to cut off different pieces for each one. With didn't really make a good case for them not streamlining with that timeline.

Though lets not pretended that we don't know that the Robins are easier for them to sell as not Robins then any of the Batgirls. There's money in Nightwing, there's money in Red Hood, and they thought there'd be money in Red Robin (but that kind of flopped on them as they put the wrong people behind him). Oracle, Spoiler, and Black Bat couldn't really say the same. It wasn't because Dan Didio just likes all the Robins and not all the Batgirls. Hell according to some Tim fans Didio hates him now too, and i know some Nightwing fans still think Didio hates him.

They don't really made a good job with the Robins imo.
Tim and Jason get usually sidelined to push other characters and while they push Damian a lot he is strangely mostly ignored in the main books and Cross over events. the only one thats really treated well is Dick, he suffered in the beginning of the New 52 a little bit from most of the other Titans being erased, but that was corrected know in rebirth.

And I don't think that the situation of the Batgirls would have been better if like the one of the Robins, if their history had survived flashpoint.

Btw. with the streamlined 5 or 6 year timeline they had pre flashpoint, they should have started around the time when Dick becomes Nightwing and a second Robin takes over, so basically at a similar status quo as they had arround COIE or in TNBA.

[SneakyLookingSort]

If I remember correctly Lil'Gotham had to change someones haircolor(Steph I think) just becasue it it couldn't use said character. It was a real lowpoint of bad editorial. There is a difference when a company doesn't publish some characters because they see profit in publishing another and when they go out of their way to make sure that already printed background/onepanel stuff in a out of continuity children/humour book is changed.

There's also this colorswapped Black Bat from Batwing: Future's End