Why doesn't DC do more with the OTHER BATGIRLS in Batman's history ?

[Assam]

Haha, I really like being able to see Cass's face.

I like the IDEA of being able to see her face. Some really good fan designs have shown how it could work better:

Cass 2013.jpg

cass hoodie.jpg

cassandra_cain_by_penvssword-da59fin.jpg

[atomicbattery]

If you truly wanted to get back to the original version of Barbara Gordon, she should be written more like a woman in at least her mid-to-late 20s/pushing 30.

Nope.
In her first appearance in the television series (Enter Batgirl, Exit Penguin) she has just graduated from college.
In the comics, she's first identified as a Ph.D. and head librarian at Gotham Public Library, which sounds fairly mature, but no age was ever specified. Years later, and after becoming a Congresswoman, she's finally identified as 25.

[Aahz]

Years later, and after becoming a Congresswoman, she's finally identified as 25.

In universe it would have been (based on Dicks age) roughly 2-3 years later.

But the previous comic versin of her have been definitely more mature than the current one.

[SneakyLookingSort]

Pretty much agree with most of you said in you multi-quote post, save for your thoughts on the Black Bat suit. While I like most of it, the arm bandages really work for her, I can't stand the mask.

I love the shredded cape and the bandages but the domino mask makes the whole thing look very half-assed for some reason. Not helping that I didn't really like how she was written during this time period either; she didn't have any of her weaknesses and and was mostly there just to stand stoically in the background sharing life lessons.

[Godlike13]

I think Comic!Babs problem of being perceived as a "Millenial" is perhaps a misstatement of the criticism given to her Burnside/Rebirth incarnation; it's more that the contrast to her established abilities and maturity when she was Oracle makes her Millenial aspects feel like the negative stereotype a lot of people mock. I mean, you could argue that Pre-Flashpoint Babs was just as much, if not more of a Millenial than her current incarnation, but that she was more the methodical and wise-beyond-her-years ideal some Millenials seem to want to be. Current Babsgirl has traits that are far more "generic young heroine" than Millenial; Baby Boomers and Generation Xers had some of the same negative cliches associated with them, after all. Some readers probably feel that a Millenial Barbara Gordon could have been done while maintaining the power of Oracle; I for one still find myself frustrated that she seems to have been "demoted" in a way, since it feels like they're pursuing a perceived ideal version for he character from back in the 80's (an overall less dangerous and intimidating interpretation) while the rest of the family is still looking forward.

Are the rest of the family looking forward though? Look at Tim, they literately put him back in his Robin costume with an extra "R". And his fans celebrated them doing this, hoping they when they bring him back they'll redo Young Justice. The brought Steph back so she can do who knows what as Spoiler, and they brought Cass back so they could retell us a year later how Lady Shiva is her mother. They are clearly pursuing the perceived ideal versions for them from back in the 00's. Does this frustrate you too? Hell even with Nightwing they brought back Bludhaven and threw him back with the Titans. Burnside is actually far more progressive and forward moving then what they have done and are doing with a number of the rest of the family.

When they made Babs Batgirl what did they demote Babs from, an Oracle that was reduced to supporting to the new Batgirl and a bloated BoP that failed to live up to its previous standard. For Babs Batgirl meant more publicity and publication in a staring role. Its a good gig. Thats part of the reason Cass and Steph fans are so bitter. Batgirl comes with perks. As much as i adored Oracle DC was never gonna do an Oracle movie.

Hey, know what? Damian as Robin didn't have a foothold in non-comics media until they decided to use him. They already had two perfectly good Robins to use, Tim and Dick, from the previous animated series. Why'd they have to go with the new hotness?

It's a circular argument to say that Steph and Cass don't have a media foothold because they don't have a media foothold.

Damian is fortunate, and they must see potential. He's fortunate to be the current Robin during the comic movies boom, fortunate to be the "Son of Batman", and fortunate that DC feels that Nightwing has actual potential as a spin off. And of course Steph and Cass aren't going get a media foothold unless they use them in other media, but that still doesn't change that its easier and less risky for then to work from a foothold then non what so ever.

[Assam]

I love the shredded cape and the bandages but the domino mask makes the whole thing look very half-assed for some reason. Not helping that I didn't really like how she was written during this time period either; she didn't have any of her weaknesses and and was mostly there just to stand stoically in the background sharing life lessons.

Pretty much, sadly, yeah. The only appearance of Cass as Black Bat I'd call "pretty good" is Gates of Gotham.

[dietrich]

Ok, think what do you want if that's more easier and confortable to you. If you want to think that the direction of a millionaire company like DC is affected by something as superfluous as the hatred to X comic characters, go ahead.

I now understand where the general public's perception of comic book fans as that fat guy from the Simpsons comes from. The detachment from reality is outstanding.

To answer original post Because Babs is the Batgirl the world knows like how up til recently Robin was always Dick Grayson. It makes it less confusing and convoluted for the public I guess

Plus Batgirl doesn't get as much outside gigs like Robin there are limited opportunities to go around However Spoiler was in YJ and that opportunity was tanked by CN so maybe CN is also in on this conspiracy.

[dietrich]

Hey, know what? Damian as Robin didn't have a foothold in non-comics media until they decided to use him. They already had two perfectly good Robins to use, Tim and Dick, from the previous animated series. Why'd they have to go with the new hotness?

It's a circular argument to say that Steph and Cass don't have a media foothold because they don't have a media foothold.

Because they believed he had a lot of potential being the literal Son of Batman. That's a niche on it's own, they couldn't do Son of Batman with any other Robin.

It isn't the same at all. Steph and Cass don't bring anything that special or different to the role aside from sunnier disposition and dodging bullets which sadly are not that in demand, deal breakers or groundbreaking.

[dietrich]

The problem is that Didio is a marketer who thinks he's a writer when he isn't. His creative decisions are based entirely on what he perceives as a character's marketability and not on any creative vision or sense of continuity or good writing. If he thinks that there is an issue with a character's marketability, he will not put any effort into making that character more marketable, but will simply seek to destroy and replace that character with a more 'marketable' version. How many other editors would reverse decades of company policy and mandate that a long-standing and beloved character be written out of existence just because he didn't like that character's description at a Six Flags ride?

It's why Didio was proud, even years later, of his decision to kill Stephanie Brown off. Most people see a horrible story and a disrespectful and sexist end to a character that doesn't hold up to scrutiny. But all Didio sees is that more people were talking about Steph afterwards, making her more 'marketable.'

Exactly. That is his job. He is employed to run and manage a business not write comics, he is doing exactly what he should be doing. DC is a business sure they would like to tell a good story but really at the end of the day it's really about profit, marketability and market share.

[sunofdarkchild]

Exactly. That is his job. He is employed to run and manage a business not write comics, he is doing exactly what he should be doing. DC is a business sure they would like to tell a good story but really at the end of the day it's really about profit, marketability and market share.

Then don't let him write any comics, and he should stop pretending that his decisions are in any way creative. And even then, his decisions have not been good ones. Stephanie Brown would be far, far more marketable and ready to be adapted to tv or for the movies if they had been serious about making her Robin in 2004. Instead of trying to make history with the first canon female Robin and make a niche character future-proof, they went for a cheap 1-time marketing gimmick for a story that was terrible in the first place that killed possibilities for the future. It's the same thing they did with Cass when they made her evil and fight Tim Drake.

If Didio did his job properly he would make decisions to ensure long-term sales, which includes building up characters and not throwing them in the trashbin on a whim. But his decisions amount to nothing more than Marvel's constant relaunching it's books at #1, a cheap attempt to temporarily increase sales with no lasting impact on sales. He was even going to have Dick Grayson killed off! He was willing to sacrifice one of DC's cash cows just to make a single event seem more important at the time. It was under his and Harras' leadership that a reboot became necessary in the first place, and it was the fact that the Nu52 was a rushed marketing ploy with little creative direction that has forced DC to reverse course with Rebirth now.

[Agent Z]

Because they believed he had a lot of potential being the literal Son of Batman. That's a niche on it's own, they couldn't do Son of Batman with any other Robin.

It isn't the same at all. Steph and Cass don't bring anything that special or different to the role aside from sunnier disposition and dodging bullets which sadly are not that in demand, deal breakers or groundbreaking.

Cass proved that a Batgirl solo series can sell. Her book lasted for 70 plus issues, something no other female of color character from DC or Marvel can claim. Her story is one of redemption, which you could not do with Babs. So yeah, she did bring something new.

You can not seriously claim that there no demand for Cass or she wasn't groundbreaking if you are aware of her history. I sure as hell don't recall any casual fans saying, "know what would be grand? If they did an animated movie about Batman's kid".

[dietrich]

Cass proved that a Batgirl solo series can sell. Her book lasted for 70 plus issues, something no other female of color character from DC or Marvel can claim. Her story is one of redemption, which you could not do with Babs. So yeah, she did bring something new.

You can not seriously claim that there no demand for Cass or she wasn't groundbreaking if you are aware of her history. I sure as hell don't recall any casual fans saying, "know what would be grand? If they did an animated movie about Batman's kid".

Well it worked so well they made one for Superman didn't they?

Redemption stories are a dime a dozen and I never said there was no demand for her. I said she does nothing special or groundbreaking. She is basically a more badass Katana or any ninja assassin who doesn't speak.

[Agent Z]

Well it worked so well they made one for Superman didn't they?

And before Damian was made? Who was asking for Batman to have a son in manistream continuity? Hell, the idea of superheroes having kids was often considered a jump the shark moment.

Well it worked so well they made one for Superman didn't they?

Redemption stories are a dime a dozen and I never said there was no demand for her.

Yes you did.

I said she does nothing special or groundbreaking.

First Batgirl to be a high seller and out sold even the main Batman book. Longest running solo held by a woman of color from either DC or Marvel.

She is basically a more badass Katana or any ninja assassin who doesn't speak.

Sure she sounds that way if you want to over simplify her. For instance, I could say Damian is just another loud mouthed brat who is better than everyone else somehow. And I'm sure you'd say I was wrong. Any character will sound bad if you oversimplify them that way.

[Pohzee]

Damian's creators were self-aware of his tropes when they created him. He is intentionally written over the top because of this self-awareness. He's a deconstruction of characters like Cassandra Cain.

[Assam]

Damian's creators were self-aware of his tropes when they created him. He is intentionally written over the top because of this self-awareness. He's a deconstruction of characters like Cassandra Cain.

Except he isn't though.

I get the impression that people who either claim she's nothing but a generic, silent badass have either never actually read anything with her past the EvilCass arc, or simply don't get her. Like Damian, she's an incredibly layered character, something I can say about very few in the Batfam. Not to mention, I personally find her to be the most relatable, but your mileage will vary in that regard.

And yes, redemption stories are very common, but 1) Cass's is one of the best told I've ever seen, and 2) Most Batfamily members don't have original concepts for core stories either.

Oh, and,

"I now understand where the general public's perception of comic book fans as that fat guy from the Simpsons comes from. The detachment from reality is outstanding."

Not sure if this was directed at me or Oujia-Man, but either way Dietrich, screw you. We're here to discuss our hobby, not be insulted.