Spirituality & the Power of Myth in X-Books

[Mari]

Thank you Rei. It's amazing how the first things that draw us to our personal heroes are subtle and sometimes what deepens our connection is the realization of how immediate the bond truly is. There's a mystery to it, some of the explanations for how we mirror and are mirrored by our favorite X-Men defies words.

I've never done any role playing but I can imagine that it could be a powerful means for actualizing the shared-spirit you have with Emma.

Thank you very much. Emma's not a character that easily understood, she's complex and posses a depth that is wholly her own. There are times when my heart reaches out to her - wishing she could let down her guard without fear, shame or guilt. Her ability to care for others despite what she's been through, her courage to love and trust, guide and protect and face down her demons...that's a true hero in my book.

Thank you sungila. Emma is definitely complex, which makes her very interesting to follow. As I find her like myself, I also root for her to have success and happiness in the comics, which is why her breakup with Cyclops was horrible to me.

[sunofdarkchild]

In general it is DC characters that are associated with 'modern mythology' while Marvel characters are considered more 'grounded.' But the lines have been blurring for a long time now. Under Claremont I'd say the X-Men were closer to a soap opera than a mythological piece. Obviously there are a few characters that are exceptions.

Xavier and Magneto are 'too big,' as it were. As Dark Phoenex Jean was like the 7 deadly sins incarnate.

Wolverine's Japanese connections added a spiritual aspect to what otherwise would have been just the wild card of the group.

Magik I feel was a metaphor for the conflict between the good and evil inside each and every person, with that conflict taken to a literal extreme.

Apocalypse and his Horsemen are too 'on the nose' not to be considered mythic or spiritual in some way.

One we get to Morrison;s run the symbolism and mythology aspects get dialed up to 11 because that's what Morrison does.

[ariwl1]

Jean tends to collect moments like these:

[KOSLOX]

The only X-Book I can really identify with was the first story arc of District X. I think that really got to the heart of what it feels like to live in America as a minority. The characters there were just regular people who by genetic lotery deal with what they are dealt. Many didn't have laser eyes and weren't beautiful creatures, they worked in diners, or gentleman's club, or were taxi drivers, but were still persecuted with little recourse against their oppresors. Most of the rest of the X-Mythos to me reads as either appropriation in the worst cases or completely tone deaf to actual social issues. Additionally, it seems a lot more like people fretting over the loss of priviledge rather than people who lacked fundamental access to begin with. Occasionally X-Factor would get it right, but that book also hewed pretty close to District X/Mutant Town so that's probably why I liked it more than most of the recent (last 15 years or so) X-book material.

I realize that's not the popular opinion here, but I've read enough X-Men over the years in various eras to cement my perceptions. I realize the metaphor works for some (I can definitely the correlation to LGBT issues) but as a catchall metaphor, for me it falls extremely flat.

Edit: On further thought I remember liking NYX initially as well.

[Ambaryerno]

Edit: On further thought I remember liking NYX initially as well.

Yeah, I liked NYX as well. I liked that it attempted to show a much more realistic and grounded setting of what kids who don't have the Xavier School to help them go through. Daddy is such a scary villain because he's also a very REALISTIC villain. There ARE people like that in the real world.

[sungila]

Lots of great discussion here.
I'd like to respond to every post as I truly appreciate the integrity and truth in every perspective.

Overall I would argue that there should not be a need the separate the 'grounded' realism of contemporary story and the more archetypical universal scope of retold mythology. What matters is how the story lives with the reader. The story isn't anything without that life.

I really have to read District X and NYX. The focus of removing the 'uniform' and getting into the visceral day to day struggle is powerful...mutant means different...power means adversity...the mirror between the hero and the witness become fluid and less tangible...which makes it potentially all the more 'real'.

“Artists use lies to tell the truth. Yes, I created a lie. But because you believed it, you found something true about yourself.”
― Alan Moore

The less this 'lie' is obvious - the more the 'truth' is believed. The leap of faith from the world outside into the panel wouldn't have to be a sky high plummet - but an immersion so subtle that it may not be perceived. Emerging from such a 'lie' acclimates us to the 'mystery' that is without black and white...that isn't bound...that is as full of possibility and alive as our own undefined becoming.

[KOSLOX]

I agree with a lot of this post but wanted to focus on this specifically.

Overall I would argue that there should not be a need the separate the 'grounded' realism of contemporary story and the more archetypical universal scope of retold mythology. What matters is how the story lives with the reader. The story isn't anything without that life.

I really have to read District X and NYX. The focus of removing the 'uniform' and getting into the visceral day to day struggle is powerful...mutant means different...power means adversity...the mirror between the hero and the witness become fluid and less tangible...which makes it potentially all the more 'real'.

1. You should definitely check out District X and NYX. To my tastes they were amazing.

***The stuff I'm about to layout is what would or would not resonate with me so in an attempt to get my point across I'm going to reference things I'm familiar with. These are specific examples but I think the ideas could be adapted to fit a more universal spirit.***

2. The uniform thing always bugged me but for different reasons. They'd have uniforms, but it would invoke a much different feeling in the general public depending on where they sit in the socio-economic and political spectrum. I think I'd "get" the X-Men (as a team) better if they more closely modeled themselves after the BPP for Self Defense or Guardian Angels or something like that.


Basically, people who protect the interests of the oppressed but were villified by those in power. I'll grant that they are that to some extent, but they really shouldn't be palling around with aliens or the Avengers. The Avengers (or at least a faction) should be more like the FBI when they were trying to bust Angela, Bobby, Fred, Huey, and Eldridge (to name the most known BPP members). Essentially, they would be community activists with a bad rap who are hounded because they challenge status quo, and they definitely wouldn't be living in mansions. Their "schools" would be the equivalent of Boys' Town, or a soup kitchen, or a free health clinic. I was hoping that the relaunch of UXM after AvX would take that kind of approach and it would have been great. Then they could have Havok's establishment (respectabilty politcs team), Wolverine's squad could have been more like the ACLU or NAACP role, and Cyclops could have been the team "of and for the people". Alas, we've got a story about them fighting the future brotherhood instead.

Obviously that's all removed from "what is" and into the realm of wishlist. Anyway, that's what would resonate with me and when the books do hit those kind of marks I feel like it's fulfilling.

[sungila]

1. You should definitely check out District X and NYX. To my tastes they were amazing.

***The stuff I'm about to layout is what would or would not resonate with me so in an attempt to get my point across I'm going to reference things I'm familiar with. These are specific examples but I think the ideas could be adapted to fit a more universal spirit.***

2. The uniform thing always bugged me but for different reasons. They'd have uniforms, but it would invoke a much different feeling in the general public depending on where they sit in the socio-economic and political spectrum. I think I'd "get" the X-Men (as a team) better if they more closely modeled themselves after the BPP for Self Defense or Guardian Angels or something like that.


Basically, people who protect the interests of the oppressed but were villified by those in power. I'll grant that they are that to some extent, but they really shouldn't be palling around with aliens or the Avengers. The Avengers (or at least a faction) should be more like the FBI when they were trying to bust Angela, Bobby, Fred, Huey, and Eldridge (to name the most known BPP members). Essentially, they would be community activists with a bad rap who are hounded because they challenge status quo, and they definitely wouldn't be living in mansions. Their "schools" would be the equivalent of Boys' Town, or a soup kitchen, or a free health clinic. I was hoping that the relaunch of UXM after AvX would take that kind of approach and it would have been great. Then they could have Havok's establishment (respectabilty politcs team), Wolverine's squad could have been more like the ACLU or NAACP role, and Cyclops could have been the team "of and for the people". Alas, we've got a story about them fighting the future brotherhood instead.

Obviously that's all removed from "what is" and into the realm of wishlist. Anyway, that's what would resonate with me and when the books do hit those kind of marks I feel like it's fulfilling.

Such a fiery post Spear and I appreciate the challenging perspective. X-books as whole IMO have been successful in representing the minority of one and not so successful in doing justice to ongoing struggles of both national and international minorities. I really appreciate your vision for how Marvel could be used to tell the story that resonates with you. Even if mainstream comics can't do it, your layout really could work - and in a way that's a credit not just to your power of ideas but to the incredible potential the X-mythology retains. There's room and there's possibility if there is the vision and talent to follow through. The 'stuff' the essential ingredients are there.

You certainly got me thinking Spear. I think of Scott and his 'X-pose' with his arms crossed and I can't help but think right away...cool, but there aren't enough minorities creating X-books and until that happens...we can get close, but not all the way there...and then I got to thinking about Huey P. Newton and his book Revolutionary Suicide and just how close it is to Scott's ideals (somebody should slip BMB a copy of that book)

Here's a quote from the book that in many ways speaks to the story Bendis is attempting to tell in his UXM...

“I do not think that life will change for the better without an assault on the Establishment, which goes on exploiting the wretched of the earth. This belief lies at the heart of the concept of revolutionary suicide. Thus it is better to oppose the forces that would drive me to self-murder than to endure them. Although I risk the likelihood of death, there is at least the possibility, if not the probability, of changing intolerable conditions. This possibility is important, because much in human existence is based upon hope without any real understanding of the odds. Indeed, we are all—Black and white alike—ill in the same way, mortally ill. But before we die, how shall we live? I say with hope and dignity; and if premature death is the result, that death has a meaning reactionary suicide can never have. It is the price of self-respect.

Revolutionary suicide does not mean that I and my comrades have a death wish; it means just the opposite. We have such a strong desire to live with hope and human dignity that existence without them is impossible. When reactionary forces crush us, we must move against these forces, even at the risk of death. We will have to be driven out with a stick.”
― Huey P. Newton

Again, for me, the most powerful aspect of X-books is that it breaks down the definitions of what separates us as opposing groups of people brought together by our shared disenfranchisement and gets to the heart of the individual. By touching that place in us all that feels persecuted, hated, feared or shamed because of our born uniqueness and then by giving us a cast of individuals one of which may draw that part of ourselves out of the shadows and into a bold light where we ourselves can take back our power and behold our 'uniqueness' as our strength...then through that uplifting of the individual there also comes a desire to uplift others...to take down bars and fight persecution...in that way, the X-books IMO are a success.

But it's not the books alone that accomplish this - it's the fans who infuse the avatars with life...who draw from the panels inspiration to actualize in their own lives a courage to struggle for the good of themselves and others.

“If you stop struggling, then you stop life.”
― Huey P. Newton

Oh and yea, my back issues of District X and NYX will definitely be included in my next order.

[sungila]

In general it is DC characters that are associated with 'modern mythology' while Marvel characters are considered more 'grounded.' But the lines have been blurring for a long time now. Under Claremont I'd say the X-Men were closer to a soap opera than a mythological piece. Obviously there are a few characters that are exceptions.

Xavier and Magneto are 'too big,' as it were. As Dark Phoenex Jean was like the 7 deadly sins incarnate.

Wolverine's Japanese connections added a spiritual aspect to what otherwise would have been just the wild card of the group.

Magik I feel was a metaphor for the conflict between the good and evil inside each and every person, with that conflict taken to a literal extreme.

Apocalypse and his Horsemen are too 'on the nose' not to be considered mythic or spiritual in some way.

One we get to Morrison;s run the symbolism and mythology aspects get dialed up to 11 because that's what Morrison does.

Is there a difference between the 'soap opera' and the mythological piece? For me the mythology works best in a story...Shakespeare blurred that line and every story is in a way...every story. I do get what you mean but when I think of Neil Gaiman or Brian Vaughan I see two modern myth makers who blur the lines between the soap operatic and the mythological.

Magik is a character that resonates with me more strongly than any other X-Men hero (other than Nightcrawler of course) - and it's in large part because of exactly what you say here in the bold. In so many ways you've added to my appreciation and connection to Illyana for which I'm grateful. The struggle between the good and evil within us all is certainly a part of Illyana's story but that's just a broad outline. Is there anything you could share about what draws you to her and what makes her story so important to you.

And yes, Wolvie's 'way of the warrior' spiritual path is an essential part of his character that HAD to be there in order to make his 'ronin' identity not just redeeming but also personally identifiable. It's a key part in his progression away from a shadowy reluctant reformed recluse into a man we can know and feel for. While his samurai's saga isn't one that intimately resonates with me...it does move me and identify him as a embodiment of what it can mean to be a wounded warrior...and an enduring hero - even more than his healing factor...his integrity through the hardships of his long life is what I find most powerful about Logan.

[Wedge Antilles]

I am very interested in learning more about the spiritual connection X-fans have with their favorite characters. About the personal connection that you have with your favorite X-Man…the one I’d suggest is the closest to the one vested within yourself.

As a teenager reading the X-Men, I felt a personal connection to Colossus. He, like I, felt part of a group but felt like an outsider of sorts as well. He was having difficulties in relationship with Kitty, as I was similarly having relationship issues simultaneously. When Wolverine let him get beat up by Juggernaut in the aftermath of him being unfaithful to Kitty... I also felt like my "friends" were just letting me get worked over by girl issues and life in general.

Fast forward to now...

I have a different personal connection to an X-Man now. Cyclops.

My life and recent events have seen me take to leadership positions personally, situations where it feels like I'm in charge of a small but likeable group taking on bigger, badder forces in an unpopular role. Also... I'd been involved in more than my fair share of... shall we call them "affairs" and leave it at that. By my peers and subordinates I'm looked at like a rock star leading a group playing great music that no one seems to approve of.

So... I see a lot of Cyclops in me, where in the distant past it was Colossus.

[sungila]

o

"...into the heart of creation" That's the stuff right there. Even in death, the follow through...is life. LIFEDEATH and it's companion book by Barry Windsor Smith "Adastra in Africa' are deconstruct the goddess, the mutant, the woman, the 'orphaned' child, the leader, the self-made iron of will - all the armors and masks of Ororo's battle to survive are shed and she 'dies' - a bold ceremonial cycle within life is the vision quest - the walkabout - the polishing off a newly tempered spirit. The hero 'dies' - and in that is the utter realization of that death requires every ounce of life...all of it...in that sacrifice (especially when it is manifested as a prayer for others) the 'uniform' and armor of the hero is cast aside and the rebirth is an integrated whole - a woman who is who she is without code names, badges, divisions of self...actualized as both the goddess and the woman; the infinite and the singular; the all powerful with all humility.
uxmn186p1a.jpg

This journey should never be confused with suicide. Although it may appear that way. Japanese writer Haruki Murakami deals with this cycle of death in life in many of his works. Even in his memoir he relates this requirement of shedding ourselves by way of grasping the whole of who are and finding the will to let it go...to come clean - to reemerge for who we are.

Like the myths themselves...we are in truth the story...those who never are absolute in definition but are truth in our contrary becomings. These rites of passage are nearly lost from most modern day societies and without them, we often seek the cycles or find them taking us anyway...only without guides or ceremony. That's a sad and isolating reality of our times. Perhaps in a way, comics, storytelling...the X-books help guide us...allow us to extend the inner personhood of ourselves into these rites and realize them psychically.
Slide11.jpg

[sungila]

As a teenager reading the X-Men, I felt a personal connection to Colossus. He, like I, felt part of a group but felt like an outsider of sorts as well. He was having difficulties in relationship with Kitty, as I was similarly having relationship issues simultaneously. When Wolverine let him get beat up by Juggernaut in the aftermath of him being unfaithful to Kitty... I also felt like my "friends" were just letting me get worked over by girl issues and life in general.

Fast forward to now...

I have a different personal connection to an X-Man now. Cyclops.

My life and recent events have seen me take to leadership positions personally, situations where it feels like I'm in charge of a small but likeable group taking on bigger, badder forces in an unpopular role. Also... I'd been involved in more than my fair share of... shall we call them "affairs" and leave it at that. By my peers and subordinates I'm looked at like a rock star leading a group playing great music that no one seems to approve of.

So... I see a lot of Cyclops in me, where in the distant past it was Colossus.

Thank you for sharing this WA. I can appreciate how your personal growth and life's journey has changed your association with the characters overtime. Piotr is rarely discussed 'spiritually' perhaps because he, himself, seems unaware of his own soulfulness. He grew out of communist atheism to find himself engaged in a journey that time again has challenged him to be anything but steel. Being an artist can be a painful reality. The feeling of being on the 'outside' and physically incorporating the perspective of witness is something has defined Colossus over the years. The strongest X-Men is perhaps the most tender. The 'snowflake' persona he invests in his sister is one that perhaps more readily fits him...white as a canvas...but this innocence leaves him vulnerable to passions that have often sent him tumbling and reeling. To be so connected to the perfect and to crave beauty...can embitter anybody...but coming through that discontent and humbling of reality only serves to add depth to both the art and the artist.

I have been guilty of sometimes losing faith in Scott and being too hard on him. I forget the breadth and depth of his sense of duty and that at the very core of his being is a desire to keep every single vulnerable (child) safe. It's impossible...and that sort of ideal in reality can tear a man apart, and will tear him apart over and over again. Xavier may have chosen Scott because he, more than anybody - is the human equivalent of the celestial phoenix. Sinister's obsession with Scott is interesting in that Sinister himself is obsessed with what's immortal - Sinister seeks that 'life force' within mortalty that is everlasting. Scott's passion, his inconsistency, his trials and his willingness to take action even when there is no purity in the directive, but his redeeming goal is to 'bring them home safe' even through Hell if Hell is the only option- and when he has failed or been the realization of his own worst fears...he has risen...and he has faced down and lived with more pain, ambiguity and tragedy than any other X-Man.

The tragic hero is often made the pariah. But the reason the 'tragic' story is so universal and so personal - is that it is a true story. None of us are perfect - though we are promised perfection (that's something inside) - the heroic nature within us refuses to let that go - Scott presses on, even if he's blind and in the dark...if there is a life left to preserve and protect...he does what has to be done to honor that life. Evil is undeniable...it'll always be there...and Scott is drawn to face it like a moth to a flame...he has been consumed by it and has had to rise from that tragedy over and over. Yet, he's still standing and he's still walking that knife's edge for the sake of suffering (the one within himself) and the ones around him.

Rock on WA!!! Thanks again for bringing Scott and Piotr and your self into the discussion.

[cc008]

I tend to identify with both Cyclops and Iceman.. which is funny because they're two very different personalities. I was the quarterback of my high school football team and captain for both football and lacrosse teams, and then a captain again for my college lacrosse team. More often than not, I would rather exercise or train instead of going out drinking with a bunch of people. As I write this, I'm actually in my basement working out. For a lot of the reasons people may find Cyclops boring, are the reasons I identify with him. Always focused on the end goal.

On the other side of that coin, I have a very relaxed personality and am able to take things in stride, much like Iceman. On a personal level, we share a lot of similarities.. a family that expects a lot out of us (although my relationship with my parents and family as a whole is much healthier than Bobby's) and a social/dating life that isn't exactly ideal. Where Cyclops always got the girl, Iceman is friend zoned more often than not. Which breaks the "quarterback gets the star-cheerleader" stereotype for me.

Probably could have explained it better but those are really who I identify with most.. and I very much enjoy when they're on the same team or in the same book.. because when they interact it's like my personalities interacting with each other.

[Sundowhn]

I'm really enjoying reading the responses in this. It makes me want to take a closer look at all the mentioned characters.

[sungila]

I'm really enjoying reading the responses in this. It makes me want to take a closer look at all the mentioned characters.

I feel exactly the same way Sundowhn. Again, anything you feel moved to share about your feelings, intuitions and discoveries along these lines would be greatly appreciated. This is a thread that is in many ways inspired by you and could greatly benefit from your consummate genius and brilliant heart. Your first post is so near and dear to my own experience that I have yet to find words to expand or respond. Nightcrawler and Magik are also the characters that resonate most with me, and since reading your post (a couple times now) that resonance has only deepened its accord. Thank you.

from Sundowhn "the characters that hit most deeply are Nightcrawler and Magik. (No, I don't have a demon fixation -- really!)

With Magik, I relate a great deal with the symbolism from her story, and it parallels some of my experiences. When she was still an innocent, control of her life was taken over and she was victimized. She got out of the situation, but then she had to face well-meaning friends and family who couldn't understand that she was no longer the sweet and innocent "snowflake". She'd had to become something different to survive --- she could never be the unstained one again and I think her brother, especially, blamed her for it in a sense and couldn't fully accept the woman who stood in the little girl's place. For her part, Illyana had to learn to accept who she'd had to become and find the good that remained -- the core self. She's still doing that.


The other that resonates deeply with me is Nightcrawler (but that's also two iterations of the character).

Kurt Wagner is probably who I'd like to be like and who I try to recapture as the person I used to be. He understands what it is to feel different but he's okay in his own skin. He greets the harshness of the world with compassion and understanding and humor. Above all, he's not afraid to express love and show his heart, making the world a friendlier place because of it.

However, it's also Kurt Darkhölme that hits a very strong note. He's the darker side of Kurt Wagner. He decided that love wasn't always enough and understanding and compassion could only go so far before the self was given completely away and consumed by life. Sometimes you have to draw a hard line in the fight to preserve what's left. He's also one of the only comic characters shown to have battled depression as a major character aspect, though Marvel handled the resolution of that badly, imo. Darkhölme's redemption should've never come with death -- he was already suicidal. The character could have only been redeemed by learning to live again."

and THANK YOU EVERYBODY who has posted so far and made this thread so distinctively brave and rewarding.
Every post brings with it a new revelation. X-fans truly are the soul of the story.