No More Major Events Anytime Soon For Marvel

[Prof. Warren]

Ok, so here's my two cents...

I felt the downward spiral started sometime around Fear Itself, just before the first Avengers movie came out.
Having multiple events and relaunches made sense in the last couple of years due to the influx of new readers who were introduced to the comics through the MCU.
Marvel probably hoped that these newcomers would stick around in the comics ecosystem for a while.

My guess is that their plan didn't work as expected and the retention rate was terrible.
To top it off, older readers like me got pissed off with the never-ending events and constant relaunches.
And then, we got a chump who's doing the blame-game thingie, and his statement gets picked up by an over-enthusiastic reporter which ends up pissing off even MORE people.

Seriously, it's a triple whammy of Godzilla proportions.

So now, we get the 'no more events for 18 months' statement which is meant to entice old fellas like me to jump back in.
I'd say they are finally getting their **** back together and starting to understand that fans want stability instead of a flash in the pan.
BUT! Being the cynic that I am, I doubt it'll last long.

One, pretty douchey to refer to someone you know nothing about - and someone who likely works hard at their job - as a "chump."

Two, he didn't do the "blame-game thingie". He discussed the feedback they've received from many retailers.

From the actual ICv2 interview:

Now the million-dollar question. Why did those tastes change?

I don't know if that's a question for me. I think that's a better question for retailers who are seeing all publishers. What we heard was that people didn't want any more diversity. They didn't want female characters out there. That's what we heard, whether we believe that or not. I don't know that that's really true, but that's what we saw in sales.


That quote has been turned by irresponsible "journalists" looking for easy hits into "Marvel blames diversity for sales dip." And that's not what was said. Discussing feedback from retailers is not the same as casting blame. And it's not the same as actually agreeing with that feedback. In the same interview, Gabriel also wonders whether it was just a overload of product that kept books from getting noticed ("Maybe the tipping point was that there was just too much out there and people turned away. Could be.").

But "Marvel Blames Sales Dip on Overload of Product" isn't scandalous enough to generate hits and it doesn't deliberately make anyone look bad so you can see why none of the tabloid-style sites went with that headline.

[rui no onna]

Two, he didn't do the "blame-game thingie". He discussed the feedback they've received from many retailers.

From the actual ICv2 interview:

Now the million-dollar question. Why did those tastes change?

I don't know if that's a question for me. I think that's a better question for retailers who are seeing all publishers. What we heard was that people didn't want any more diversity. They didn't want female characters out there. That's what we heard, whether we believe that or not. I don't know that that's really true, but that's what we saw in sales.


That quote has been turned by irresponsible "journalists" looking for easy hits into "Marvel blames diversity for sales dip." And that's not what was said. Discussing feedback from retailers is not the same as casting blame. And it's not the same as actually agreeing with that feedback. In the same interview, Gabriel also wonders whether it was just a overload of product that kept books from getting noticed ("Maybe the tipping point was that there was just too much out there and people turned away. Could be.").

But "Marvel Blames Sales Dip on Overload of Product" isn't scandalous enough to generate hits and it doesn't deliberately make anyone look bad so you can see why none of the tabloid-style sites went with that headline.

Perhaps I'm just being cynical but I read that as a passive-aggressive manner of passing the buck and saying "Customers told us they want diversity but when we gave them diversity they didn't buy it."

As for overload of product, I reckon that's the actual reason but it was one that was barely addressed on Day 1.

Expanding High Selling Franchise Titles
A related topic was the question of how many titles featuring a franchise is too many. "There's so many different Deadpools coming out that our numbers are just going down and down and down," a retailer said. "People are spread out. They don't know which ones to start with and which ones to read."

Gabriel responded. "Yes, we struggle with that as well," he said. "What's really difficult, and Axel was pointing this out to me a lot this week, is that Deadpool Kills the Marvel Universe that we did just a couple years ago with Cullen Bunn ends up being our number one trade for the past two or three years.

When you see another Deadpool miniseries coming up, it's because we're trying to make that happen. If it doesn't happen, then we do try to move on."

That? Feels very much like just throwing a million different things up against the wall and seeing what sticks. Problem is I don't think the wall is big enough for all the stuff thrown against it. Really, I reckon too many decisions to boost short-term sales at the expense of long-term.

[ViewtifulJC]

-Too many events
-Way too many books for any of them to be marketed properly with inconsistent creative talent behind them, lead to constant cancellations/relaunches/reshuffling/etc
-Everything $4 because reasons
-Stephen Wacker was the best editor they've ever had and his presence on Hawkeye/Spider-Man/Daredevil/etc is sorely missed
-The exodus of A-list writing talent in Hickman/Remender/Brubaker/Fraction/Gillen that have yet to be properly replaced
-Half their classic characters are either dead or just mishandled.

Right now there are a few gems like Squirrel Girl and Mighty Thor, but by and large its been a loooong time since Marvel's line-up has seemed so lackluster, so creatively and commercially bankrupt, so completely without an idea WTF to do so they just keep throwing hundreds of things out there and hoping they stick.

Gotta hope they get it together by 2018.

[ed2962]

One, pretty douchey to refer to someone you know nothing about - and someone who likely works hard at their job - as a "chump."

Two, he didn't do the "blame-game thingie". He discussed the feedback they've received from many retailers.

From the actual ICv2 interview:

Now the million-dollar question. Why did those tastes change?

I don't know if that's a question for me. I think that's a better question for retailers who are seeing all publishers. What we heard was that people didn't want any more diversity. They didn't want female characters out there. That's what we heard, whether we believe that or not. I don't know that that's really true, but that's what we saw in sales.


That quote has been turned by irresponsible "journalists" looking for easy hits into "Marvel blames diversity for sales dip." And that's not what was said. Discussing feedback from retailers is not the same as casting blame. And it's not the same as actually agreeing with that feedback. In the same interview, Gabriel also wonders whether it was just a overload of product that kept books from getting noticed ("Maybe the tipping point was that there was just too much out there and people turned away. Could be.").

But "Marvel Blames Sales Dip on Overload of Product" isn't scandalous enough to generate hits and it doesn't deliberately make anyone look bad so you can see why none of the tabloid-style sites went with that headline.

Exactly. Yet some people want to see it as, "See! PC diversity doesn't work! Marvel said so! Stop forcing it down my throat! Agenda!"

[skyvolt2000]

The exodus of A-list writing talent in Hickman/Remender/Brubaker/Fraction/Gillen that have yet to be properly replaced

How can I replace those guys when FANS & STORE OWNERS won't give the new guys a shot? Especially if they are on a book with a character folks have decided they will make it their business to get out of comics. Or the behavior Chelsea Cain got.

We saw WAY TOO MUCH I hate who is on the cover versus comments about story content. And when we got comments on story it was fans (mainly a certain fanbase) who tried to tell the writer what his character was about. Because they hated that he was Inhuman.

Right now there are a few gems like Squirrel Girl

Her book came out and NOBODY raised hell about. When books are left alone to fend for themselves without fans targeting those books like we see with Moon Girl & Mosaic-LOL they either succeed or fail.

Perhaps I'm just being cynical but I read that as a passive-aggressive manner of passing the buck and saying "Customers told us they want diversity but when we gave them diversity they didn't buy it."

As for overload of product, I reckon that's the actual reason but it was one that was barely addressed on Day 1.

It's hard to address that when the main books targeted are books with POC, LGBT & Inhumans.

Marvel at most has tossed out 60-80 books a month. Even if you bring everybody back and plan to put out 65 books a month. You would still have room for books like Moon Girl.

I tried it myself and even tossing out books for Darkhawk, Original Nick Fury, Namor, Sleepwalker, Quasar & 4 books for Peter Parker. I might post that list.

I think the wall is big enough but FANS have to realize-YOU have to support the books YOU like and stop worrying about the ones you don't. Even Miles's recent issue went off on that.

I mean IDW has tossed out books no one on the PLANET asked for. Who wanted dead properties like Jem, MASK & Rom? We have Saved by the Bell, Punky Brewster, Knight Rider and Garbage Pail kids with comics. I have YET to see a single complaint about those books. Nor kids books like Lumberjanes yet Marvel does a kid's book called Moon Girl and you see the results.

[rui no onna]

Her book came out and NOBODY raised hell about. When books are left alone to fend for themselves without fans targeting those books like we see with Moon Girl & Mosaic-LOL they either succeed or fail.

It's hard to address that when the main books targeted are books with POC, LGBT & Inhumans.

Marvel at most has tossed out 60-80 books a month. Even if you bring everybody back and plan to put out 65 books a month. You would still have room for books like Moon Girl.

I tried it myself and even tossing out books for Darkhawk, Original Nick Fury, Namor, Sleepwalker, Quasar & 4 books for Peter Parker. I might post that list.

I think the wall is big enough but FANS have to realize-YOU have to support the books YOU like and stop worrying about the ones you don't. Even Miles's recent issue went off on that.

I mean IDW has tossed out books no one on the PLANET asked for. Who wanted dead properties like Jem, MASK & Rom? We have Saved by the Bell, Punky Brewster, Knight Rider and Garbage Pail kids with comics. I have YET to see a single complaint about those books. Nor kids books like Lumberjanes yet Marvel does a kid's book called Moon Girl and you see the results.

That's because back when Squirrel Girl was released, the market wasn't as flooded with product yet. I believe same for Mighty Thor.

I actually don't know of an LCS in my area who carries any of those IDW titles you mentioned on shelf. Don't recall ever seeing Lumberjanes, either. Maybe they don't care because they don't order them in the first place? Meanwhile, there's a certain expectation that LCS have to carry each and every one of DC and Marvel main universe titles. If stores don't carry Black (Black Mask) or Heathen (Vault) or Lumberjanes (Boom), there's little backlash. If they don't carry Mockingbird, Mosaic or Moon Girl, it's discrimination. Note, I actually did have a 12-issue print subscription to Mockingbird that I transferred over to Hawkeye (Kate) after the former got cancelled.

I try to buy the titles I enjoy or have cool covers or that seem interesting. Problem is there are far more stuff that seem interesting than I have disposable income so I have to prioritize. Doesn't help that incentivized percentage gated Marvel variants tend to cost 30-40% more online than regular issues plus shipping (~$5 extra). If I get them from my LCS, it'll cost even more since I have to pay for all the extra regular copies needed in order to qualify. True, I'm feeding Marvel's belief that they need to put out more variants. It's hurting their other titles though because I'm trying less titles than I would otherwise. If they increase variant production even further, I'll just give up altogether. Again, too much chasing short-term money at the expense of long-term.

Big Two Comic Publishers Increased Production Dramatically This Fall

The Big Two comic publishers, Marvel and DC, increased their title counts dramatically this fall, but dollar sales didn’t follow, according to an analysis by ICv2 based on information provided by Diamond Comic Distributors. According to Diamond title counts, Marvel released 382 comics and graphic novels in the September – November period in 2016, up from 315 releases in 2015; while DC released 352 comics and graphic novels in Fall 2016, vs. 312 releases in 2015.

That means the Big Two comic publishers released 107 more titles in September through November 2016 than they did in the same period in 2015 (734 vs. 627).

That’s a 21% increase in title count for Marvel and a 13% increase in releases for DC in the September through November 2016 period vs. the same period a year ago, a 17% increase overall.

During that same period, Diamond reported that North American sales of comics and graphic novels to comic stores were roughly flat: 2.2% increase in September (see “DC Wins Third Month”), 1.09% increase in October (see “Marvel Returns to #1 Comic Publisher in October”), and a 4.25% decline in November (see “Comic Sales Slide in November”).

There have also been price cuts by DC to $2.99 from $3.99 with its Rebirth launch, which certainly helps, and in fact, DC sales do seem to be holding up better than some others. We took a quick look at November numbers and found 24 DC titles with sales over 50,000 copies in November of 2016 vs. only five with sales over 50,000 copies in November of 2015. The reverse was true for Marvel, with 19 Marvel titles over 50,000 in November 2016 vs. 32 over 50,000 in 2015.

[Biclopcicle]

I'm reluctant to accept this news. A part of me believes that if sales dip low enough, Marvel will do whatever they must to boost those numbers. If, after 12 months, sales are really tanking, then they'll cobble together some kind of event. It's how the business works.

In the end, fans have more power over this than they think. If fans buy more comics that aren't major crossover events, then Marvel will respond to that. They're a business. The reason they do these events in the first place is because they sell. Until they stop selling, they'll keep doing it. That's just the nature of the business. So at the end of the day, it's up to fans to let Marvel know with their money that they want less crossover events. If they don't, then expect something different.

They should have just skipped CWII. I absolutely loved Secret Wars. Yeah it was late but I had been following Hickman for awhule (I don't care what anyone says, the payoff was immense). And the minis were really fun too. I read Spencer's Standoff- that was great. He could easily have continued to build his HydraCap from there without Civil War. Yeah I know that's how he ultimately became director of SHIELD, but there could've been any number of paths there. We could've been riding along all this time building up to Secret Empire. Which is a story that Spenser evolved into a line wide event, not some brainstorming session 3 months before the event is supposed to begin. "Hey guys we need an event for this summer. Oh, you say theyre doing Civil War in the movies? Let's do Civil War 2! What's it gonna be about? Bendis, Go figure It out. And use the damn Inhumans, ok? And make sure somebody dies."

[jackolover]

He didn't say there had been no creative summits for 18 months. They've just had one this year, I believe.

That's what it read to me in that article. They haven't had any big event creative summits for 18 months, and they aren't having any big event summits anymore for another 18 months. But there still must be creative summits going on, just not for big events.

[fin5]

Marvel said after Secret Empire that no more events for 18 months a few month later more Events. i wonder what marvels reasoning is about this

[The Negative Zone]

No MAJOR line wide events. Smaller events are fair game apparently. It'd be wise to boycott them.

[skyvolt2000]

Marvel said after Secret Empire that no more events for 18 months a few month later more Events. i wonder what marvels reasoning is about this

Check the bins in your comic book stores.

While it's not limited to Marvel-I would think there is a HUGE issue if I can wait x number of months and your events are in bins for 25 cents and in some cases in bins a month after the issues (along with tie in) are there as well.

I got Secret Empire 1-8 for 25 cents and this was about a week before the last issue of the series.

Don't ask me about how many Civil War 2 issues were in bins during that mess. I got the variant of Civil War 2 issue 8 for 50 cents a week after it came out. Saw Powerman & Iron Fist & Thunderbolts CW issue in bins the day AFTER they came out.