America #2 - Synopsis + Spoilers + Opinions

[majormcmeat]

It'd almost be genius if it was satire.

I've got a question.

Exactly why do people have an issue with a comic book that sounds modern? Every era has it's own voice, and America is capitalizing on the voice of youth today. I've seen a lot of people upset with cultural references in this book, but like... did the Dazzler solo not have references like this? Any solo in any era is going to.

I work with teenagers and not one of them speaks like this.
Young people still talk like human beings. They aren't constant fountains of references and slang.

And at least this is well written with a compelling lead.

Maybe we're reading different books.
I'm still trying to figure out how the conflict with her girlfriend is supposed to make sense.

[Harpsikord]

The girlfriend thing is literally supposed to create conflict.

But okay, sure, you work with teenagers and none of them speak like this... but I have family that are teenagers are quite a few of them speak like this. I'm only 21, and while I don't exactly speak like this, I know a ton of contemporaries that do. It's supposed to not just be genuine, but also cheeky. Not satirical, true, but still filled with enough humor.

[Tiamatty]

Maybe we're reading different books.
I'm still trying to figure out how the conflict with her girlfriend is supposed to make sense.

America has abandonment issues, stemming from her moms dying when she was a kid. She's spent her whole life building a wall to keep people out, prevent them from knowing the real her, and to prevent her from getting close enough to them for them to hurt her. but she let her guard down with Lisa, and started to fall in love with her. So, when Lisa said she didn't want to move in with her, America panicked and bolted. She thought Lisa was going to break up with her, and America decided to do it first. Which actually is something that happens. People do that. Because people routinely don't make sense.

[majormcmeat]

The girlfriend thing is literally supposed to create conflict.

Yeah, but because the conflict makes no sense (You don't want to move? Well I'm using my TELEPORTATION powers to leave you!) it feels incredibly forced.

There's so little internal logic or consistency to anything that happens in the book, and it's only worse when viewed in the context of the Marvel universe as a whole.
Like, why does Moon Girl suddenly not talk or act even remotely like a kid while also suddenly being incredibly respected?

[Harpsikord]

I mean, Moon Girl is the smartest individual in the MU, so... I mean?

[majormcmeat]

I mean, Moon Girl is the smartest individual in the MU, so... I mean?

Yeah, but major aspects of her book are her struggles with earning people's respect and that despite her intelligence, she's still a little kid and generally acts like one.

[Anduinel]

I mean, Moon Girl is the smartest individual in the MU, so... I mean?

Moon Girl's seminar was one of my favorite parts of the book. I really enjoyed the way Rivera segued the explanation of good intention vs the actual results on Lunella into the assignment. And DD was cute.

[Tiamatty]

Yeah, but major aspects of her book are her struggles with earning people's respect and that despite her intelligence, she's still a little kid and generally acts like one.

This is a school located, apparently, between realities. This isn't a normal school at all. So I'm fine with the school recognizing Lunella's genius.

[kilderkin]

The art of issue 1 didn't work for me but I do like this character so I think I'll stay with it for at least the first 3 issues to see if the writing will be enough

[Harpsikord]

This is a school located, apparently, between realities. This isn't a normal school at all. So I'm fine with the school recognizing Lunella's genius.

There's also nothing stopping a child from speaking professionally, particularly if that child is the smartest person in the universe.

[Fokken]

Alright. I read through it again this morning, hoping that a 2nd pass might alter my perceptions and....well, no, it didn't help.
Anduinel, Tiamatty and majormcmeat have brought up the key issues I have, so I'll quote and add my 2 cents.

I'm still not really on board with this characterization of MAC, which is bugging the hell out of me, because I'm really liking almost everything that's going on around her.

Credit where Credit is due: The world around America is fun. Gabby created some unique elements for America to be explored within. There are several aspects that WORK. The inclusion of Lisa, Kate, the Ultimates and Prodigy for starters, however briefly they may get peppered in here and there. Fans appreciate that. A character need not be removed from an already established support cast to explore her "solo", nor need she be transplanted into an entirely new cast of characters, though it seems often that to be a writer's preference (creating newbies).

.... America's language is Gabby's language. So the way America speaks is the way Gabby's family and friends speak.

And it drives me bonkers.
Perhaps the charms of her novel are what caught Marvel's attention but those same charms seem to be crippling this book. I've seen similar complaints about Joss Whedon's writing. That he recycles voices and readers/viewers can easily swap characters in and out of his portfolio of works. A lot of X-fans argued this during his run of Astonishing X-Men, stating Kitty reads like Buffy and Emma reads like Cordelia, etc -- for those familiar. Granted, if that's your speed, well then power to you (personally, I thoroughly enjoyed his run of Astonishing) but I also believe that a talented writer ought to be able to tap into a character's voice -- particularly if that character already exists, with an assortment of reference material to work from.
Again I'll cite Al Ewing as a TREMENDOUS success in this regard. This guy has an uncanny knack of researching his characters and cultivating that knowledge to explore and enrich them, while dosing us with enough throw back material to satisfy long time fans.

It'd almost be genius if it was satire.

And speaking of Al Ewing -- he popped into my head again, upon reading this comment. Al's New Avengers and now USAvengers has that tongue in cheek, wacky slapsticky humor aspect weaved into his narratives. Like Gabby's sorrority, Leelumultipass is a perfect example of that same zany inclusion that gives readers a solid giggle, but then the additional elements -- the cyborg jocks(?) and the Hitler/Nazi punching or even Lunela's speech -- all of these things felt like they were symbolic inserts to comment on social issues/concerns etc. but .... I dunno. For me, reading them, it was like a big red blinking sign radiating messages of equality and commentary about inclusion and predjudice -- and I usually love that stuff. But all of these swirled into one book just felt like the book was grabbing me by the shoulders and shaking the message at me.

And circling back to America -- having read another interview with Gabby about issue 2, ( http://fusion.net/gabby-rivera-on-ho...-co-1794038810 ) I just feel like she's missing the mark on WHO America is or HAS BEEN to readers until this point. She regularly brings up how America has to cope with doing things alone. By herself. But that's the America that I understood her to be. A loner. Not afraid to make the tough calls and even alienate people for the cause, if necessary. And YES, she has abandonment issues (apparently) from the loss of her Moms, but MY understanding was that everything she's done from the moment she left the Utopian Parallel was to HONOR them and to give their sacrifice meaning by carrying on their heroic legacy -- not this "I lost my moms so now I'm wander the multiverse picking fights with bad guys and I'm so lonely I can't fathom going to college without my girlfriend holding my hand the entire time". C'mon.

Don't get me wrong, I can totally BUY that she's got unresolved issues that she buries to keep doing "the work" or "the mission". She is clearly burdening herself with glorious purpose (wink) but I just don't empathize with how its being dissected here. I want to feel sad for her when she cries about her Moms or missing Lisa but I don't. And complicating her powerset by making her a time traveler? I humbly Leelumultipass on that.

[majormcmeat]

There's also nothing stopping a child from speaking professionally, particularly if that child is the smartest person in the universe.

Nothing but consistency with that child's story and characterization.

This is a school located, apparently, between realities. This isn't a normal school at all. So I'm fine with the school recognizing Lunella's genius.

Seems like a convenient excuse for the writer to be lazy.

[rui no onna]

This series is not for me.

However, given the comments I've read thus far, it seems the writing might be more in line with the mass market. It may bug existing (direct market) fans of America but its tone may jive with book market preferences more.

I reckon this is one of those titles Marvel should let run for at least two trades and see if word of mouth helps once it's out in the book market even if sales via DM are appalling.

[JKtheMac]

I've got a question.

Exactly why do people have an issue with a comic book that sounds modern? Every era has it's own voice, and America is capitalizing on the voice of youth today. I've seen a lot of people upset with cultural references in this book, but like... did the Dazzler solo not have references like this? Any solo in any era is going to.

And at least this is well written with a compelling lead.

I am not sure people have an issue with it as such, I think it is difficult to relate to if you are not in the target demographic. And of course if you are not in the target demographic you by definition are not expected to relate to it.

I have given this book two issues and I now know for certain it isn't aimed at me. No problem, plenty of books are. However I can imagine a slightly more crotchety version of myself that would be annoyed that the book had moved the character away from my personal enjoyment.

When it comes down to it, my enjoyment of the character was entirely based on the writings of a white middle-class englishman that is only about ten years younger than myself, has similar hobbies and hangs around less than thirty miles from where I live. He even seems to have spent time living in London just like myself. It isn't surprising I am more aligned to his perspective on the character and less aligned to the perspective of a writer that has far more in common with the actual character than I do.

[Valamist]

While I do agree with the notion that MAC here feels rather different from the one in Ultimates, Young Avengers etc. I am still enjoying the book. The interdimensional collage has a lot of potential and Chavez is still a fun character. I am not much of a Moon Girl fan, but I did enjoy her cameo here. I like Gabby, and I hope Prodigy gets more to do in the future.

As mentioned in another thread, you can actually get the first issue for free until until 4/9 on Comix I do wonder how long the book would last. I hope it gets to #12, and does not die by #6... I hear that both the first two issues actually sold out and are getting a re-print, so thats something right?