Harley Quinn Losing her innocent style and push for crazy is bad or good ?

[Cmbmool]

One of the many reasons I'm not a big fan of the Harley Quinn push was the fact that they pushed her craziness a bit and made her a murder without any remorse or innocence within her.


Harley always had that innocent within her that made her sympathetic to fans. Now they're pushing her a bit too far.

I know she had to fight for herself, but this is just goes far beyond her normal remorse style that she once was.

In fact this video sort of explains my point a bit better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtXv01FcOMo

As fans of Harley Quinn what do you say to the fact of DC pushing her character beyond her innocent roots, but making her more crazy ?

[Assam]

Innocent? Uh, Harley's ALWAYS been a crazy murderer since her first appearance.

[Pohzee]

There is nothing good about modern Harley. I was never enthralled with her character like some other B:TAS fans seemed to be, but whatever abomination has the current ongoing is not even remotely the same character.

[batnbreakfast]

There is nothing good about modern Harley. I was never enthralled with her character like some other B:TAS fans seemed to be, but whatever abomination has the current ongoing is not even remotely the same character.

This. When she showed up in the first SS pics I thought. "Argh. They're doing N52 SS. Bummer." Hopefully she won't be around in the sequel.

[MajorHoy]

If you miss old-school Harley, she did appear in two issues of Scooby-Doo Team-Up (#'s 12 and 21), and she's back in a back-up feature co-written by Paul Dini starting in the current run of Harley Quinn (#17).

[sakuyamons]

One of the many reasons I'm not a big fan of the Harley Quinn push was the fact that they pushed her craziness a bit and made her a murder without any remorse or innocence within her.


Harley always had that innocent within her that made her sympathetic to fans. Now they're pushing her a bit too far.

I know she had to fight for herself, but this is just goes far beyond her normal remorse style that she once was.

In fact this video sort of explains my point a bit better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtXv01FcOMo

As fans of Harley Quinn what do you say to the fact of DC pushing her character beyond her innocent roots, but making her more crazy ?

I like Harley well enough, but she had always been crazy to the point of being ruthless, an example of this it's like on Beyond where she helped Joker to brainwash Robin onto a mini Mr. J. Haven't read her solo in a long time (nu52 time) but so far to me they are heading onto an anti-hero role, a la dead pool (which I dislike but it's not the point)

[mathew101281]

Yeah I'm not sure she ever was the innocent character people think she was. Even the animated Harley probably had numerous murders on her wrap sheet. Example the Joker fish adaption where she's helping the Joker Commit mass murder. Or in the Harley/ Ivy episode where she tries to kill those guys in the car with the bazooka. Not to mention her first appearance where she's helping the Joker murder a whole room of cops. No she was a killer from the start.

[Nite-Wing]

I can find a random episode of BTAS where she kills someone or attempts to kill someone
Harley is not some innocent little girl she is a woman in her mid to late 30s who has made her life choices.
Saying she had innocent style is what her appearance conveys her actions however are that of a hardened criminal.

[PurpleGlovez]

She was never as bloodthirsty or insane* as she has been from New 52 onwards, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Current Harley is a disgrace to humanity, I really try not to think about it... such a shame. I'd like to see her integrated back into the Bat-universe and made into some semblance of what she originally was (in her original, superior costume as well) with her appearances a bit more sporadic, to make them special.

*EDIT: Okay she has always been insane but in a different way. DC now envisions her as an otherwise normal person who just became really evil and psychotic and the Joker was just tangentially related to that. Originally she was the Joker's most tragic victim and she genuinely wasn't in control of some of her actions. Everyone has this idea that Harley's endgame is to outgrow the Joker and lead a normal happy life, but I disagree; if we're being realistic, there are only a couple things that can end up happening to her and few of them are good. Sweet innocent Harley being molded like Play-Doh by the Joker, psychologically tortured, and made to commit unspeakable atrocities helps demonstrate the utter depravity and f*cked-up-ness of Batman's world and shows just how high the stakes are.

[Arkham]

She was innocent originally cause the whole world where she was born was innocent, how many people died in the animated series? likely nobody, if I remember rightly batman always had an antidote, magic thing to heal people

Harley wasn't murderous, an interesting proof of this was her first comic in 2000, she killed a lot in that comic, in comics villains usually kill people but Harley needed to be a good person so they invented something: she was crazy, so she couldn't understand when she hurt people, in that comic often she couldn't understand the death, it was dark and sad sometimes. From her eyes you could see the gunfire as cartoons in the style of the animated series.

So I didn't like that aspect in N52, I don't like it so much in Suicide Squad neither but at least in SS they don't pay attention to this, they just go around shooting like in a 80's movie.

About the new animation and the nightwing business, the new movie, I'm going to wait to watch the movie then I'm going to complain but yes, I don't think they should make her...promiscuos in this way. In comics sometimes Paul Dini wrote her being a little immoral (Sirens, Mad Love and Batman - HQ in 2000), Paul Dini, he was trying to say that even if Joker was in Mad Love an abusser and a jerk in the other comics she had her part of guilt in their relationship, her behavior was supposed to be bad and wrong.

Nowadays she's two or more different characters. In her solo Harley is deadpool and they're pleasing a specific public, those girls on internet who want gay material, Do you remember when Selina became bisexual? something like that but worse, her solo book is dropping so we'll see a new version soon. It's a good thing that young girls usually aren't good customers for comics.

However DC seems to think scandalous relationships are a good way to catch interest and It's disgusting to say it plainly and yeah, they don't have any respect for the characters.

[marvelprince]

I can't get into new Harley cause I can't reconcile the person she was with this character they want her to be. I can understand trying to turn over a new leaf and being different but I can't forget the ultra violent willing things she used to do for Joker. Saying "Joker did it" is a cop out that doesn't work for me and watching her try to pal around with the heroes now just makes my head spin. Kudos to those that enjoy it but she's not a character than you can just Deadpool cause she's popular now.

[Arkham]

I can't get into new Harley cause I can't reconcile the person she was with this character they want her to be. ...but I can't forget the ultra violent willing things she used to do for Joker. Saying "Joker did it.

I'm just curious but what those ultra violent things were?

[Doctor Bifrost]

...they're pleasing a specific public, those girls on internet who want gay material, Do you remember when Selina became bisexual? something like that but worse...

It's a good thing that young girls usually aren't good customers for comics.

However DC seems to think scandalous relationships are a good way to catch interest and It's disgusting to say it plainly

I am not a fan of Harley, as I am not usually a fan of characters in the DCU who are on the one hand murderous and unrepentant, and on the other hand presented as "cool" or, in this case, "cute." (This is not a gender issue. I find Batman inviting Lobo to join his JL appalling.)

But I simply don't know what her bisexuality has to do with it. Some people are bisexual, just like some people are straight and some people are gay. It's not disgusting and it's not scandalous and young girls are not going to be in any way damaged because they read about a bisexual character. Whether it's Harley, Catwoman, or someone else.

Nor do I feel sure that they had those characters turn out to be bisexual because "those girls on internet who want gay material." (I'm not sure what girls you're talking about, but I bet they exist in real life as well as on the internet. Right now in this conversation we're all on the internet - including you. Does that mean your opinion should be dismissed?) Traditionally, a lot of young straight men are quite interested in seeing hot women (and these characters are certainly presented as hot women) making out. You can find that on the internet as well.

I don't like the Harley/Poison Ivy relationship. But that's because I don't like Harley, and I think Pamela deserves better.

(My opinions on Poison Ivy are not entirely consistent with what I said earlier about anti-heroes. That may be because I have a version of Ivy in my head that doesn't quite match what we see on the page. I suppose all readers do that with some characters....)

[Arkham]

But I simply don't know what her bisexuality has to do with it.

Of course you don't know but we're going to talk about what both of us know. When the bat sex between Bruce and Batgirl appeared in the movie "the killing joke" there was a scandal and the movie got attention, the wrong kind of attention but I think people talked about BruceBatgirl more than they talked about the killing joke itself.

Nor do I feel sure that they had those characters turn out to be bisexual because "those girls on internet who want gay material." (I'm not sure what girls you're talking about, but I bet they exist in real life as well as on the internet.[...]Traditionally, a lot of young straight men are quite interested in seeing hot women (and these characters are certainly presented as hot women) making out.

Do you know what a business is, right? well, they thought queerbaiting was a good business. It has been demostrated that young girls are the demography more interested in social justice and lesbian relationships, whatever is gay in that sector gets popular but is not that every young girl has this taste. Straight men find it hot when two girls are making out but they don't like real lesbians in their comics, they don't like relationships or romantic feelings or anything else after a sexy pose or a hot kiss. Likely isn't the case with everybody but the vast majority and practically 100% of the readers are men who by the way try to ignore the idea so bad sellings in that chunk of the population.

[Assam]

Of course you don't know but we're going to talk about what both of us know. When the bat sex between Bruce and Batgirl appeared in the movie "the killing joke" there was a scandal and the movie got attention, the wrong kind of attention but I think people talked about BruceBatgirl more than they talked about the killing joke itself.



Do you know what a business is, right? well, they thought queerbaiting was a good business. It has been demostrated that young girls are the demography more interested in social justice and lesbian relationships, whatever is gay in that sector gets popular but is not that every young girl has this taste. Straight men find it hot when two girls are making out but they don't like real lesbians in their comics, they don't like relationships or romantic feelings or anything else after a sexy pose or a hot kiss. Likely isn't the case with everybody but the vast majority and practically 100% of the readers are men who by the way try to ignore the idea so bad sellings in that chunk of the population.

Wow...I don't know if you're homophobic or plain ignorant, but...wow