Real Talk: What is Rachel Grey giving us anymore?

[Havok83]

What I find ironic is that the reason she was given the codename Prestige and new costume was so she could forge a new identty for herself, one she could call her own but everything about Gold is built on 80s nostalgia! #1 felt so derivative and was a rehash of stuff done before with all the characters (i guess save Storm but thats another issue). She's like a walking contradiction for the tone of the book. Without making her a brat, MG could at least give her back her fiery personality bc Rachel reads as bland. All the characters read as safe and she could be the spitfire the team can use

[Blu Berri]

After a long night of hunting, Ahab didn't liked the session, so he gutted Rachel and set her on fire. But she didn't die, she had crystalized, and now she's a Claremazon bitch, ready for the runway.

We can see her new Phoenix costume here, done by the new XMG artist after Syaf was fired:

OMG. lol

10 char

[WallStreeter]

Rachel has the same problem most of the older, long-running characters have: her character development arc was finished decades ago. By the end of Alan Davis's run as writer on Excalibur, she'd gotten her memory back, resolved her bond with the Phoenix, and liberated her home timeline from the Sentinels. Shortly thereafter, she reconciled with Jean and then Scott in Cable's origin arc. She even got a well-done and thematically appropriate death from old age.

IMO, Marvel should've left her dead. Her story had been told. Since Weinberg brought her back via retcon, she's served as a Jean substitute. That's how Claremont used her in his mid-00s run. But, then along came Hope Summers, making her redundant. Then came the introduction of Jeen, making her doubly redundant.

If Marvel allowed the characters to age past their mid-to-late 30s (and stay that way) and let the generations truly turn over, I'd feel differently. That'd open up some more possibilities--the Phoenix Force as a power and a mantle passed from mother to daughter, Rachel as the oldest member of and thus "big sister" to the next generation of X-Men, Rachel pairing off and having children of her own, etc. But, of course, Marvel won't go there. Not for real. Illusion of change and all that.

As it stands, she's just sort of...there. They're using Jeen for the latest iteration of Phoenix stories, so Rachel doesn't even have that. She's X-Men Gold's Jean stand-in, Kitty's other best friend, and...that's about it.

Big deal. As I've said elsewhere, there are at least 5 Wolverine's. Rachel can have similar powers to Jean and similar enough characterization and still be written as unique. And it's not like Jean is the only telepath/telekinetic in the world. Plenty of people have similar powers, and plenty of characters in Marvel have family members. Wolverine has two or three children. Thor has a lot of siblings, etc.

I think Rachel has come across great as a character in her own right. In recent years she's been one of the best fights (she kicked butt in AvX), one of the better teachers, etc. She does have a separate life from her parents. She's good friends with Kitty and she's good friends with Rogue and the New Mutants. She and Monet bicker, but they have ongoing mutual respect. She's good friends with Nightcrawler and Colossus. She's not as close to Storm as Jean, but they still work well together.

[WallStreeter]

She had pretty much dealt with her past but that doesnt mean that there cant be any more stories which can be told about her. It is just a matter of interest which Marvel lacks when it come to her

I wouldn't say no interest ,and there's a reason why I think they brought her back to the team. Due to films and tv shows, some of the most unlikely characters have become major hits. If Legion of all people can have his own tv show, at some point we will see Rachel in the films, especially since the franchise now deals with time travel. Or they could say Sinister took Jean and Scott's dna and made Rachel in a test tube.

I can see Rachel more in the tv shows, which are using B and C list characters like Legion, Polaris, etc.

[WallStreeter]

Nightcrawler died. I'd say his death was pretty memorable. Unfortunately he came back as a dud. IA on Collosus as well. This is why Im with the other posters that said the younger kids should have been given a chance to shine.

The problem is they introduced all those younger kids that could not sustain a series, so they really had no choice but to bring back characters that fans liked such as Nightcrawler, Colossus and Jean. You don't kill good, popular characters off in favor of crappy new characters that haven't taken off.

Take Pixie. Despite an attempt to tack on portions of Illyana's powers, Pixie never took off. In fact despite an attempt to give Amanda Sefton's Illyana's powers and codename, she never took off either. But fans loved the return of Illyana herself, and her being a mainstay X-Man got her a place in the New Mutants film.

Quentin is an example of a newer character that's popular, but most of the new characters just did not take off.

[FUBAR007]

Big deal. As I've said elsewhere, there are at least 5 Wolverine's.

That's not a good thing, and it doesn't help your case. From both a story perspective and a branding perspective, there should be only one Wolverine at a time.

Rachel can have similar powers to Jean and similar enough characterization and still be written as unique. And it's not like Jean is the only telepath/telekinetic in the world. Plenty of people have similar powers, and plenty of characters in Marvel have family members. Wolverine has two or three children. Thor has a lot of siblings, etc.

I'm not arguing against characters having relatives with similar powers. I'm arguing against those relatives being used as generically similar substitutes for said characters.

I think Rachel has come across great as a character in her own right.

Aside from the type of stories Marvel generally refuses to tell (aging, having kids, generations turning over, etc.), what Rachel stories are left to tell that haven't been told already? At this point, what is her development trajectory? What personal challenge is there left for her to overcome? What personal conflict is there left for her to resolve?

I like Rachel, too, but unless Marvel ditches the "illusion of change" conceit for her, she's done. She's a complete person. Sure, Marvel can plug her into generic superhero stories, but that means she's just serving as filler.

To be clear, this isn't just a problem with Rachel. It's a problem with many of the long-running characters. Storm's character arc was done in the late 80s. Scott and Jean's arcs were done in the mid 90s. And so on.

[FUBAR007]

The problem is they introduced all those younger kids that could not sustain a series, so they really had no choice but to bring back characters that fans liked such as Nightcrawler, Colossus and Jean. You don't kill good, popular characters off in favor of crappy new characters that haven't taken off.

Take Pixie. Despite an attempt to tack on portions of Illyana's powers, Pixie never took off. In fact despite an attempt to give Amanda Sefton's Illyana's powers and codename, she never took off either. But fans loved the return of Illyana herself, and her being a mainstay X-Man got her a place in the New Mutants film.

Quentin is an example of a newer character that's popular, but most of the new characters just did not take off.

Historically, most characters don't take off. Creating hit characters is a volume business.

Also, Marvel and DC, being corporate and risk-averse, are more apt to create a new incarnation of an old character instead. They already own the trademark and the IP, and it allows them to kick off with at least some audience leftover from the previous incarnation.

[Park Slope Pixie]

The problem is they introduced all those younger kids that could not sustain a series, so they really had no choice but to bring back characters that fans liked such as Nightcrawler, Colossus and Jean. You don't kill good, popular characters off in favor of crappy new characters that haven't taken off.

Take Pixie. Despite an attempt to tack on portions of Illyana's powers, Pixie never took off.

She worked. Under Frac/Gill/Carey.

Not her fault that noted 'resting on long ago laurels' Bendo came not shortly afterwards to essentially 'retire'. And Marvel (and the x-editorial fresh out of a college frat mixer) to eagerly kowtow to his cheap macguffinery.

She brought a fresh young dynamic that didn't skew 40 year old still tryin' to be down (kitty) or the gen x wallpaper (who?).

At any rate, she had an identity. What the hell is Rachel's identity besides being Kitty's footstool? If that's enough, cool. Just give me the leather again, pls.

[Havok83]

She worked. Under Frac/Gill/Carey.

Not her fault that noted 'resting on long ago laurels' Bendo came not shortly afterwards to essentially 'retire'. And Marvel (and the x-editorial fresh out of a college frat mixer) to eagerly kowtow to his cheap macguffinery.

She brought a fresh young dynamic that didn't skew 40 year old still tryin' to be down (kitty) or the gen x wallpaper (who?).

At any rate, she had an identity. What the hell is Rachel's identity besides being Kitty's footstool? If that's enough, cool. Just give me the leather again, pls.

She didnt work. I know you love her, but Pixie wasnt exactly a popular character.

[Park Slope Pixie]

She didnt work. I know you love her, but Pixie wasnt exactly a popular character.

People here think x-23 is fresh and good. I wouldn't exactly trust 'vox populi'

[victor borkowski]

She's a badass telepath on a team that could use one. On the personal side of things, I tend to agree that she runs of the risk of moving in circles and playing the same character beats. That's why, although I don't like the costume, her quest to find her own identity is something I appreciate. It's different for her.

agreed. she was great way back in Xmen against Selene, and good in Excalibur, and I liked her in outer space Xmen. she needs to finallt find her spot and shine. it's been way too long.

[Thievery]

She didnt work. I know you love her, but Pixie wasnt exactly a popular character.

Well I will become unpopular with a lot of people here and defend Pixie. I would rather have Pixie in Blue than characters like Jimmy. I hope you do not take offense at this Havok83. I realized as soon as I typed this it could look offensive and I am editing in an apology.

[blanchett]

I think it's execution with Rachel and the key is her past.

• Rachel is someone with the power levels and life experience of Magneto, why has she not gone that route? I think that's worth exploring as a counterpoint.
• She is a displaced person in a time were displacement of people from their homes is very common. So her story is relevant to today.
• She is someone who has lived through a war that cost her entire family, that's worth exploring and relevant to today. Survivors guilt.
• She is someone who has lived through legalised prejudice, that's very relevant today.
• At least in one timeline she became an incredibly competent leader and propagandist that sustained a cold war against Apocalypse and his forces until old age. Her leadership potential is worth exploring.
• Her sexuality(not Kitty or Kurt or anyone who she could have referred to as uncle or aunt in her own timeline) is worth exploring. She lost her "husband", so there's that loss. I think it could be interesting to explore sexuality from her perspective as a telepath, how much would appearrance matter to someone with her insight?
• She lived through that totalitarian government that seems to be on the rise.

When you actually think about it, depending on execution she's actually the most relevant person on that team right now to the concept of the X-Men and the current state of the world.

[Havok83]

Well I will become unpopular with a lot of people here and defend Pixie. I would rather have Pixie in Blue than characters like Jimmy. I hope you do not take offense at this Havok83. I realized as soon as I typed this it could look offensive and I am editing in an apology.

No offense taken. We all are entitled to our opinions even if yours is wrong

P.S. No offense LOL

[Tycon]

Well I will become unpopular with a lot of people here and defend Pixie. I would rather have Pixie in Blue than characters like Jimmy. I hope you do not take offense at this Havok83. I realized as soon as I typed this it could look offensive and I am editing in an apology.

Who wouldn't?