Political Correctness Hurting Marvel Comics??

[Panfoot]

The character that they've been fleshing out and developing for 5+ issues now. Are you going to claim that in those 5+ issues Riri has been given no development, backstory, or personality?

You're acting like this hasn't been done in comics before with varying degrees of success. What you're complaining about is the EXACT same thing they did with Miles Morales, Kamala Khan, and Sam Alexander.

I haven't read those issues, she wasn't fleshed out in the 14 issues prior to her book(I'll be generous and leave out the 7 International Iron Man issues, even though that was really the only part of Bendis' run with any actual story). Why would I want to read about a character that the writer couldn't' even bother to give a good setup for taking over after erasing the normal cast, the characters I bought the book to read about, from the book? When the announcement came that she would become Iron Man she...built an armor based off a schematic she found online, then Tony met her and said she's awesome, and that's it.

Ok, but how is this different than Eric Masterson, Beta Ray Bill, John Walker, teen Tony, 50's Cap and Bucky, Artimus, Barbarian Aquaman, Kyle Rayner, Cassandra Cain, John Henry Irons, Cyborg Superman, Conner Kent, Azbat, Ted Kord, Jamie Reyes, Genis-Vell, Phyla-Vell, Johnny Storm, android Vision, multiple Starmen, etc...

How many of those characters are still around or even recognizable characters that people care about and not just footnotes?(Seriously, Teen Tony, the previous worst part of the Iron Man series?).

The same criticism applies to the Doom book to, it just comes off as Bendis' wanted to write Doom and that's it(I don't read that book either but I looked up the explanation for why he's calling himself Iron Man, its not good). The only reason that gets more of a pass is because people like Doom and are just happy he has a book, and seems like would lose nothing if you changed the title/Doom's armor(though somehow I doubt that book will be well loved by the end of it's run).

[Panfoot]

Just gonna leave this here...

Rhodey first appeared 52 issues before taking over as Iron Man and actually had his friendship and relationship established over that time. The lead-up to Rhodey taking over was well established with Tony's struggle with alcoholism and Tony even still remained as a character in the books while all this happened. Compare that to how we got Ironheart...

[penthotal]

Rhodey first appeared 52 issues before taking over as Iron Man and actually had his friendship and relationship established over that time. The lead-up to Rhodey taking over was well established with Tony's struggle with alcoholism and Tony even still remained as a character in the books while all this happened. Compare that to how we got Ironheart...

And so what? It's not a rule that a character must star in 50 issues before becoming a legacy. It's not «the best way», it's just the way some people experienced in the past the passing of a mantle. If Riri had starred in the previous issue people would have just gone the route «because of this damn Marvel diversity agenda Tony Stark has to share the book with this previously unseen character! I hate it! Whaaa whaaa, I want my mum!». I am sure of that. Whining it's all some people seem willing to do, sometimes I even suspect that without reasons to be outraged and vent in comics shops and online forums many people would just stop reading comics.

And 20 years ago comics were different. The lifespan of a book was way longer than now. You can't build a character for years in today comics, it's impossible for many reasons. Books don't last as they used to. Writers don't stay on the same book as they used to. Good writers after a few years in comics are lucky enough to end up writing for TV and movies. And you know why is this way? Because Marvel for decades pandered only to an aging legion of conservative fanatics that only want to keep reading the same characters acting the same way doing the same things that when they started reading them as teenagers. So the readership has shrunk, and shrunk and shrunk until sale attrition make impossible for 99% of the books to be profitable for more than 20 issues.

[CaptCleghorn]

Rhodey first appeared 52 issues before taking over as Iron Man and actually had his friendship and relationship established over that time. The lead-up to Rhodey taking over was well established with Tony's struggle with alcoholism and Tony even still remained as a character in the books while all this happened. Compare that to how we got Ironheart...

Yep. The point, though, is that "PC, SJW, agenda" Marvel is far from a new idea.

I'm actually OK with agendas in comics, even if I don't agree with them. Comics are stories and they should be different. Is Lunella part of a PC agenda? Maybe. I don't know, nor do I care. Ultimately, we all decides whether we want to read a book or not. Your criteria for that are your business and not for me to judge.

[penthotal]

I haven't read those issues, she wasn't fleshed out in the 14 issues prior to her book

If you haven't read stories about the character you are criticizing, please refrain talking about the characters, it's meaningless. You don't know it, you can't talk about it.

[Carabas]

It seems like many people want comics to be a safe space from politics.

It seems many people want comics to be a rightwing safe space.

The absence of LGBT, PoC, female... characters in starring roles is still something that is very political.

[Panfoot]

If you haven't read stories about the character you are criticizing, please refrain talking about the characters, it's meaningless. You don't know it, you can't talk about it.

I have read the stories about the character, the 14 issues leading up to the character becoming the focus of the book, as I clearly stated before.

[Redjack]

It seems many people want comics to be a rightwing safe space.

Yep. And 100% of those people can stick it.

The absence of LGBT, PoC, female... characters in starring roles is still something that is very political.

Yep. And it's a fight they're not going to win with the comics world. They need to go back to their tea parties.

[Panfoot]

And so what? It's not a rule that a character must star in 50 issues before becoming a legacy. It's not «the best way», it's just the way some people experienced in the past the passing of a mantle. If Riri had starred in the previous issue people would have just gone the route «because of this damn Marvel diversity agenda Tony Stark has to share the book with this previously unseen character! I hate it! Whaaa whaaa, I want my mum!». I am sure of that. Whining it's all some people seem willing to do, sometimes I even suspect that without reasons to be outraged and vent in comics shops and online forums many people would just stop reading comics.

And 20 years ago comics were different. The lifespan of a book was way longer than now. You can't build a character for years in today comics, it's impossible for many reasons. Books don't last as they used to. Writers don't stay on the same book as they used to. Good writers after a few years in comics are lucky enough to end up writing for TV and movies. And you know why is this way? Because Marvel for decades pandered only to an aging legion of conservative fanatics that only want to keep reading the same characters acting the same way doing the same things that when they started reading them as teenagers. So the readership has shrunk, and shrunk and shrunk until sale attrition make impossible for 99% of the books to be profitable for more than 20 issues.

How does comics being different excuse bad writing? I'm not arguing that replacing comic characters is inherently bad(I quite like All New Wolverine, and on the other side of the superhero pond i'm really enjoying New Super Man), I'm saying Marvel's writers haven't been doing a particularly great job in a couple of cases(with Ms. Marvel probably being the shining example of what to do, and I would argue Riri being the exact opposite). Ultimately the "PC agenda" stuff is mostly nonsense but when you start replacing heroes, and not just one or to but a majority of the most well known ones, there is gonna be push back. It would be nice if they put more thought into it, it's hard not to see it as more then another gimmick like the constant hero vs hero events in a fair bit of cases.

[Ra-El]

I don't hate politics in comics, as some have said here some of the best stories have a strong political nature. The stories don't even have to match my beliefs, Preacher is probably my favorite comic, is a book with a strong atheist and anti-religion tone, and I was raised to be catholic, and while I'm not a religious person I do believe in God. Garth Ennis is a fiercy atheist and a lot of his works like Preacher ridicules things that I like and believe, but he still is one of my favorite writers.
Tought as many other comic readers I don't like to have my favorite character replaced, it usually isn't motive enougth to make me drop a comic, the writers will just have to work more to keep me reading.

It was asked here before why people don't try new books, I can only answer for myself, when I don't try new comic is basically because nothing in it catch my interest, to try a new comic something has to attract me, a character that I like, a writer or artist, the concept of the story it is telling or mouth to mouth even. Unfortunely I have a limited budget and time so I'm not able to try even all the comics that interest me, so to give a chance to something that at first I have no interest in is highly unlikely.

If something is taking away my interst in Marvel comics is not the Polical Correctness or polics in general, but the constant events, specially the hero vs heroes ones, for example, I listened some really good things about both Captain America books, and I liked Nick Spencer run in Thief of Thieves, but when I had just finished the first issue of the Sam Wilson comic I find out about the Secret Empire event so I give up on the book.

[Kasper Cole]

I haven't read those issues, she wasn't fleshed out in the 14 issues prior to her book(I'll be generous and leave out the 7 International Iron Man issues, even though that was really the only part of Bendis' run with any actual story). Why would I want to read about a character that the writer couldn't' even bother to give a good setup for taking over after erasing the normal cast, the characters I bought the book to read about, from the book? When the announcement came that she would become Iron Man she...built an armor based off a schematic she found online, then Tony met her and said she's awesome, and that's it.

I have read the stories about the character, the 14 issues leading up to the character becoming the focus of the book, as I clearly stated before.

So basically you dropped the series as they began to flesh out Riri and tell her story, but you still have the audacity to imply the character lacks depth?

penthotal (who has actually read Riri's story) said he found her more interesting than Tony Stark. Beyond it just being a matter of his personal opinion, you can't argue otherwise because you haven't actually read Riri's story, so you shouldn't be making assertions like "what character?".

[Panfoot]

So basically you dropped the series as they began to flesh out Riri and tell her story, but you still have the audacity to imply the character lacks depth?

penthotal (who has actually read Riri's story) said he found her more interesting than Tony Stark. Beyond it just being a matter of his personal opinion, you can't argue otherwise because you haven't actually read Riri's story, so you shouldn't be making assertions like "what character?".

I have read Riri's story, issue #9 when she first appeared, issue #10 where she first actually used her suit, etc. Maybe she finally has had some depth added to her character in the recent issues, but that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about her introduction before becoming the main character. If somehow she's become a great character in those 6 issues(and her minor CW2 appearance) that are out now, how does that effect how much was lacking the the 6 issues leading up?

[Lee Stone]

I think it has, but not in the way some may think.
I think the over-importance has had an effect of everything being analyzed and put under microscopes, which has reduced any new PC characters as coming off as superficial tokens, rather than just new characters in their own right.

On the bright side, once things start winding down a bit, some of the new characters may eventually have more time to be developed without being overly scrutinized.

[Sighphi]

Ok, but how is this different than Eric Masterson, Beta Ray Bill, John Walker, teen Tony, 50's Cap and Bucky, Artimus, Barbarian Aquaman, Kyle Rayner, Cassandra Cain, John Henry Irons, Cyborg Superman, Conner Kent, Azbat, Ted Kord, Jamie Reyes, Genis-Vell, Phyla-Vell, Johnny Storm, android Vision, multiple Starmen, etc...

BRB didnt become the main character of Thor. 50's buck and cap are actual buck and cap until the later retcon. Cyborg Supes and the others came from a storyline specifically replacing a dead Supes.

Other folks contribute with the other characters.

[Fused]

It seems many people want comics to be a rightwing safe space.

The absence of LGBT, PoC, female... characters in starring roles is still something that is very political.

Funny, back in the 90's I was pretty stoked that Storm was running her own X-Men squad. That's a far cry from Ms. America Chavez beating up white people on college campuses, but hey I guess that's just me yearning for muh right-wing safe space...