Should they stay or should they go? Rucka's Reinventions

[Outside_85]

So a comment from the #20 discussion struck a cord with me:

Pretty ambivalent towards her personality as well. There are some aspects of Circe in there, while other aspects just seemed off. All in all, I hope this "reinvention" stays in this arc and never makes it out.

That is something we might want to consider: How many of Rucka's reinventions and tweaks do we want to retain when he moves on? How many of them will still work once Truth wraps up?

This is what I think of each:
The Amazons: They are ofc still very functional in their old guise... but I personally just find them rather boring and lacking identity.
Cheetah: I think this is a keeper, Barbara with a personal tragic connection to Diana is what I've been waiting for in this character thats always had potential, but never showed it.
Etta Candy: A a tough-as-nails ex-commando... ehh pass for me, it's kinda like Diana making friends with a less ruthless Amanda Waller, and wasn't Etta supposed to be fun?
Veronica Cale: Hardly any changes there, so no complaints. But I see her running into problems when someone who is not Rucka decides to use her.
Poison: Just no... DC has plenty of mercenaries and cultists in gimp-suits as it is that we need to extract all the uniqueness of Dr. Poison to make another gun-toting weirdo.
Dr. Cyber: I quite like her as AI system, so I think she's a keeper, but I will be more interested in her if she stops being Cale's sentient iPad.
Deimos/Phobos: I've repeatedly mocked this pair for their looks, and I will continue to do so. Be scared, here comes a pair of Lewis Carol cosplayers. Out with them.
Uzakawaka (or w/e): I'm still against a plant god being responsible for making the Cheetah because it makes no sense on any level. I liked the design though.
The Patrons: Having the Olympians appear as non-verbal animals is great, once, more than that... no so much. Humanoid forms and voices please.
Circe: No thanks, I prefer Circe reeking of superiority and power, not a cheeky 20-something that bargains for Springsteen tickets.
Ares: hard to say since I dont think we've even seen him yet... but returning him to his Dark Knight appearance just feels rather lazy.

So all in all, there are a few keepers and a few that need tweeks. What say you?

[numberthirty]

Like 'Em Or Not, I can't really see the point of setting up a new foundation just to start jettisoning it.

[Miles To Go]

Rucka indicated in his departure announcement the book had been given enough elements to sustain it for loads of stories to come with what we've seen so far, so we should see a lot of things kept for the forseeable future. I think we're all due now for people playing with the toys as opposed to discarding/breaking them

[CRaymond]

I anticipate Cale will be given an exit stage left. It's unlikely anyone else would utilize the character.

The rest will be left available and ripe for writers.

I'll add more opinions after I read some.

[Dr. Poison]

Considering what came before, I hope everything sticks this time around. Circe's appearance, personality, and power-level can be adjusted especially with her recent appearance being in in Diana's 2nd year in Man's World. Circe has plenty of time in between then and now to grow out her hair, change it to purple, and gain more power. I really like Rucka's interpretations of Diana, Etta, Steve, Cheetah, and Dr. Cyber so those are must-keeps. Dr. Poison could use some work but like Circe, she's easy to adjust. One quick accident with the Maru Virus and BAM - the Eric Luke version of Dr. Poison is back to her unhinged, sadistic self.

[Outside_85]

Like 'Em Or Not, I can't really see the point of setting up a new foundation just to start jettisoning it.

Well, that's part of the problem really. DC has shown themselves to be able and willing to let writers throw out and change whatever they want whenever they want. So atm, to me it just seem like there isn't any rule that any of Rucka's contributions will last more than 5min after he's gone.

Poison is right however than many of the more flawed contributions aren't that far away from what they used to be, a quick fix in most cases.
Thing I am asking however is, should they be fixed? Especially if we are now all hoping that things are now 'fixed' as far as WW and her enemies are concerned?

[Nyssane]

Here are my thoughts:

The Amazons - Absolutely keep! One of the best things Rucka did was ditch the horrendous New 52 Amazons and brought back classics like Philippus, Epione, and Io. I *hope* that future writers do bring in Mala, though. She's sorely missing for whatever reason.

Cheetah - Keep. The personal connection is what Cheetah needed most as a villain, but I do want to see her become more in control of her powers and maybe alternate between human form and cheetah form. I like her less as a victim and more as a powerful, confident woman who is in charge of herself despite the horrible circumstances.

Etta Candy - Change. Obviously I didn't hate Etta in Rucka's run, but I do want her to be more "woo woo!" fun.

Veronica Cale - Honestly, I just hope Cale is put to rest for the next few years. And Rucka didn't want anyone using the character after his first run, so it's possible he may ask subsequent writers now to not use her as well. Which would be for the best, I'm assuming her story will be completed after Rucka's final issue.

Doctor Poison - Change. I dig the new direction of Colonel Maru being a soldier, but I want to see some scientist aspects of the character brought forward. If she's a jack-of-all-trades (soldier and scientist), that'd be up my alley. And I'd like to see her Poison members fleshed out a bit.

Doctor Cyber - Keep. It irks me a little bit that Rucka felt the need to change her name from Cylvia to Adrianna, but whatever. She's fun, kooky, sarcastic... completely unique from WW villains that came before her. I do hope she branches off on her own as a villain.

Deimos & Phobos - Keep. I love them as pompous pretty boys.

Urzkartaga - I feel like his story is done, so it's a non-issue. I don't want to see Cheetah be a slave to him anymore.

The Patrons - Change. It would be nice to see them back in their outlandish designs from Azzarello's run.

Circe - A mixture of both. I liked her way more in my second read through of #20, but I do think she needs a few tweaks.

Ares - No idea, since we haven't really seen him yet. If he's that naked guy in the tree from a few issues prior, then I'm okay with it.

[millernumber1]

I pretty much agree with what Nyssane outlines, though I like Cale a bit more. I agree that her story will likely be concluded with #25, though - I can't imagine that Rucka will want to pull another Mission's End and leave so many threads hanging for Diana again.

[Fenix]

Hope we don't see Cale for a long time after this story. Don't really care for her at all.

I would like to see Diana's book tie into the overall Rebirth story. Once again, Batman and Superman are at the forefront for what's going on in the DC universe while Diana is just off doing her own thing.

[OBrianTallent]

Here are my thoughts:

The Amazons - Absolutely keep! One of the best things Rucka did was ditch the horrendous New 52 Amazons and brought back classics like Philippus, Epione, and Io. I *hope* that future writers do bring in Mala, though. She's sorely missing for whatever reason.

Cheetah - Keep. The personal connection is what Cheetah needed most as a villain, but I do want to see her become more in control of her powers and maybe alternate between human form and cheetah form. I like her less as a victim and more as a powerful, confident woman who is in charge of herself despite the horrible circumstances.

Etta Candy - Change. Obviously I didn't hate Etta in Rucka's run, but I do want her to be more "woo woo!" fun.

Veronica Cale - Honestly, I just hope Cale is put to rest for the next few years. And Rucka didn't want anyone using the character after his first run, so it's possible he may ask subsequent writers now to not use her as well. Which would be for the best, I'm assuming her story will be completed after Rucka's final issue.

Doctor Poison - Change. I dig the new direction of Colonel Maru being a soldier, but I want to see some scientist aspects of the character brought forward. If she's a jack-of-all-trades (soldier and scientist), that'd be up my alley. And I'd like to see her Poison members fleshed out a bit.

Doctor Cyber - Keep. It irks me a little bit that Rucka felt the need to change her name from Cylvia to Adrianna, but whatever. She's fun, kooky, sarcastic... completely unique from WW villains that came before her. I do hope she branches off on her own as a villain.

Deimos & Phobos - Keep. I love them as pompous pretty boys.

Urzkartaga - I feel like his story is done, so it's a non-issue. I don't want to see Cheetah be a slave to him anymore.

The Patrons - Change. It would be nice to see them back in their outlandish designs from Azzarello's run.

Circe - A mixture of both. I liked her way more in my second read through of #20, but I do think she needs a few tweaks.

Ares - No idea, since we haven't really seen him yet. If he's that naked guy in the tree from a few issues prior, then I'm okay with it.

This is pretty much my thoughts as well. The only divergence is I hated....HATED...the Azzerello gods. These were not gods of power or intimidation they were Saturday morning knock offs. The silent animal treatment was a most interesting take in that it showed their presence without taking over the story but if we are going to have present gods I would like a little more to them.
Cale I like as well. I would live to see her developed even more by capable writers. I would live to see her developed to even deeper complexities and power and disdain for Wonder Woman beyond Rucka.

[Pinsir]

If the question is will the cast stay or go then the answer is obvious; they won't stay given Wonder Woman's history.

[Avi]

I hope Etta does regain some of her old/early qualities. A mixture between what he had in LoWW last year and how she is now. Circe could easily be written differently the next time she shows up considering she only appeared in the past. Everyone else I like as they are.

[richalex]

No changes please. LEAVE IT ALONE!

[Mel Dyer]

KEEP EVERYTHING!!! Keep the rogues gallery and the supporting cast and build on all of it.

For the time being, Ares and the members of Godwatch - Cale, Cheetah, Cyber, Poison and the new Circe - should be set in granite as the power-playing top of the meffing food chain, among Wonder-villains. We need a rogues gallery, and here's a good start. For my money, the rest - First Born, Giganta, Adjudicator, Bushmaster, Queen of Fables, etc - can trickle in, as we go.

Veronica Cale should be given the chance - a chance - to assume the arch-enemy role, simply because she's already so complex and well-developed.

There's nothing wrong with this character, except that she's lacking in anything that makes her stand out, among Wonder Woman's rogues. I suggested on another post that, perhaps Cale will become Ares's 'Silver Swan' to save her daughter from being cursed with that job. At this stage in the revitalization of WW's villains, Wonder Woman needs someone, besides Cheetah, who can take a physical battle to her doorstep, and giving Cale that power would be BRILLIANT, ..which is why I know it will never happen in the comic. Seriously...Cale needs something else going on, than clichéd sinister industrialist, but throwing her AWAY, because some of us can't get over Circe not being 'top dog' would be grievously wasteful.

As far as I'm concerned, the core rogues gallery is in place...again, that's Cale, Cheetah, Cyber, Poison, the new Circe and ARES! Enough fooling around and experimentation! Let's get some stories in the canon and let the FANS decide who gets the arch-nemesis spot. There are NO sacred cows or reserved parking spaces here for Wonder-villains - not for Circe, Cheetah, Cale or anybody. Publish some classic stories with these ladies and let us decide, who we like the most.

I think writers need to quit clowning around with Cyber and grow her into the female Doctor Doom that she was in the 70s, because this comic needs a non-mythical heavy super-villainess - so does the rest of the DCU, really. Furthermore, Cyber, not being magical or mythical, is easier to use in stories, outside of the WW comic - JL, Batman, Superman, Aquaman, Titans, etc. Written well, Doctor Cyber can be a first-class DCU star, whose popularity could easily surpass Circe's and Cheetah's. Conceptually speaking, if there was ever a super-villain, who fits at the same table with Luthor, Darkseid, Raz Al Ghul and Brainiac, it's Doctor Cyber. It's so irritating to see a writer come so close to realizing her potential, but just can't or won't make it happen - doesn't see it. Cute, nerd-gurl Doctor Cyber - what a waste, so far!

This comic needs a definitive, regular supporting cast - Etta, Steve, Ferdinand and maybe, Artemis or Doc Julia - and REGULAR, as in they're in every other issue. Editors need to show some backbone and see that they're kept in the comic. Wonder Woman isn't a Batman-styled loner, and Paradise island isn't her Batcave ..or Daily Planet. Donna Troy, the Amazons, I Ching, Artemis and Champion are fine for recurring or 'guest star' characters, but, in my opinion, ..shouldn't be regular characters, hanging out at the water cooler.

Colorfully classic rogues gallery, classic regular cast, classic stories - that's the page that WW's creative team needs to be on, right now. Historically, this has been such a wasteful comic - maybe, the most wasteful comic in the industry. There's no way that Stan Lee would've tolerated the wasteful, neglectful treatment of supporting characters and super-villains, in WW, that DC's last two publishers have. There's no way Stan Lee would've let a comic go nearly THIRTY YEARS, without a top-drawer 'star villain' ..and no regular cast - NO WAY! For WW's editors, I think it's time to quit allowing one writer, after another, to throw away promising villains and supporting characters ..and to use them in the bloody comic.

So, no...I can't get behind ditching Cale and sluttying up Circe again, just to maintain a sucky status quo - or worse...to [I]punish [?][/B] Rucka for not propping up Circe, as automatic arch-nemesis and star super-villain? [Am I really hearing that?] Having given up on Hawk Man and Aquaman (also favorites of mine), a long time ago, I am really tired of seeing this comic fail. I am really tired of being ashamed of this comic, when it's come so close to being excellent, in the past. Editorially speaking, this comic is in the toilet, and Rucka's got it back on the road, again.

All WW's editors have to do, now, ..is show enough backbone to KEEP it, there.

[AmiMizuno]

Let's be honest reintroduction a are good since there aren't that many reintroduction for some Wondie villains that haven't been seem for years. One thing is Diana really needs her own teams to make sure there is continuity. There should always be con texting dots from one arc to another this is why I rather have a Wonder Woman writer than some new writer on Wonder Woman since they will just make a new foundation. There should be certain things about Diana's myths that are always true. We can't just keep always them to restart her all the time. This is why Diana is the worst character in the sense no one in DC cares who she is or what she stands for.