Batman TAS confession

[Kid A]

Maybe not, but then what is? I mean, if we were to expand to all cartoons (not just action), then I'd probably say that Looney Tunes is the greatest cartoon series of all time. But for action cartoons, only, looking at quality and overall fan-reaction, what is the "Sopranos of cartoons"?

Either Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood or Avatar the Last Airbender.

[ABH]

Either Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood or Avatar the Last Airbender.

Really? I'd have to take your word for it -- I've only seen a little bit of Full Metal and I've never watched Airbender. I know both have large fan followings, but is the quality really there?

[Jeff Brady]

Avatar: The Last Airbender is completely wonderful. Seriously, just watch the first episode. The quality never lets up.

FMA makes no sense to me.

[sunofdarkchild]

FMA Brotherhood is an anime. Don't think it counts.

I'd say BTAS is the Star Trek of cartoons. Star Trek was followed by TNG and other shows, while BTAS was followed by Superman, JLU, and a literal 'next gen' in Batman Beyond. Both shows were almost purely episodic, but their successors varied between episodic and overarching plots. Of course BTAS had a much more immediate influence on the cartoon medium as a whole than Star Trek did for live action television, with shows like Gargoyles following it after just a few years.

[Billy Batson]

Avatar: The Last Airbender is completely wonderful. Seriously, just watch the first episode. The quality never lets up.

Except in the sequel.

[Kid A]

FMA Brotherhood is an anime. Don't think it counts.

Are you serious?

[doctormistermaster]

Having just written an annotated bibliography on animated media I would argue that a critical consensus on what could be considered the mediums "Sopranos" (1999) would be an endless debate with little to no consensus. I would personally argue Neon Genesis Evangelion (1995) as the most critically evaluated animated series from my own research, but my studies pertain more towards film scholarship rather than television.

I think that Cowboy Bebop (1998), Twelve Kingdoms (2001), Avatar the Last Airbender (2005), The Legend of Korra (2012), Batman the Animated Series (1992), Pinky and the Brain (1995) and Genndy Tartakovsky's various works particularly Star Wars:Clone Wars (2003) and Samurai Jack (2001) would be in consideration.

I know that currently Archer (2010), Attack on Titan (2013) and Adventure Time (2010) are huge hits.

This is a very small list and it is limited by my own viewing experiences and focusing on recent works that received critical acclaim or accolades. I also attempted to avoid animated sitcoms like Family Guy (1999), King of the Hill (1997) or the Simpsons (1989). I am not sure how to classify South Park (1997) which may actually be the closest in terms of popularity/critical acclaim and various transgressive material though oppositional to the Sopranos in tone.
Also everyone should do themselves a favor and watch the Fleischer Superman film serials which helped lead animation to tackle genres outside of comedy.

[LoneNecromancer]

Having just written an essay on animated media I would argue that a critical consensus on what could be considered the mediums "Soprano's" would be an endless debate with little to no consensus. I would personally argue Neon Genesis Evangelion (1995) as the most critically evaluated animated series from my own research, but my studies pertain more towards film scholarship rather than television.

I think that Cowboy Bebop (1998), Twelve Kingdoms (2001), Avatar the Last Airbender (2005), The Legend of Korra (2012), Batman the Animated Series (1992), Pinky and the Brain (1995) and Genndy Tartakovsky's various works particularly Star Wars:Clone Wars (2003) and Samurai Jack (2001) would be in consideration.

I know that currently Attack on Titan (2013) and Adventure Time (2010) are huge hits.

Attack on Titan is garbage and Legend of Korra isn't bad, but nowhere close to being that good.

[ABH]

Having just written an essay on animated media I would argue that a critical consensus on what could be considered the mediums "Soprano's" would be an endless debate with little to no consensus. I would personally argue Neon Genesis Evangelion as the most critically evaluated animated series from my own research, but my studies pertain more towards film scholarship rather than television.

I agree -- we'd never come to any consensus, but I was curious as to what some of the contenders might be.

I know that currently Attack on Titan and Adventure Time are huge hits.

I just started watching Attack on Titan (on CN/AS), and while it's entertaining enough to keep watching, I'm not really drawn in yet. Basically, I'm watching it because it's free, but I wouldn't pay for it.

[sunofdarkchild]

By 'critically evaluated' I assume you mean talked about rather than praised. Most of those other shows you listed have a fraction of the detractors EVA has.

[Jeff Brady]

Except in the sequel.

I think Korra is pretty good. A little wobbly here and there, but it improves very quickly.

[doctormistermaster]

Attack on Titan is garbage and Legend of Korra isn't bad, but nowhere close to being that good.

I should have clarified that I am not a fan of either Adventure Time or Attack on Titan but both series have amassed quite a respectable following. I love Korra but to each their own. Overall I was not attempting to qualify the validity of any of the series mentioned as that is a highly subjective response, I was just compiling a quick list of series that have developed large cult followings or a degree critical acclaim. The shows listed are those I am familiar with that fit this criteria I tried to stay away from placing a value judgement based on their quality. I neglected many of my favourite series as I knew they would simply present a bias. I also wish to apologize for editing the post numerous times as it likely made my point much harder to follow.

By 'critically evaluated' I assume you mean talked about rather than praised. Most of those other shows you listed have a fraction of the detractors EVA has.

You are absolutely correct the series is quite controversial and has a great deal of critical discourse associated with it.

[SiegePerilous02]

Having just written an annotated bibliography on animated media I would argue that a critical consensus on what could be considered the mediums "Sopranos" (1999) would be an endless debate with little to no consensus. I would personally argue Neon Genesis Evangelion (1995) as the most critically evaluated animated series from my own research, but my studies pertain more towards film scholarship rather than television.

Dude, I was just gonna mention Neon Genesis! One of my favorite things EVER, it actually tops B:TAS for me (though, apples/oranges, etc.) for my favorite animated work. No other series has an Author Insert character like Shinji Ikari, who highlights all the author's flaws, and not just the strengths, which is something of a rarity. It inspires a lot of hype backlash, which is inevitable, but something that inspires as much debate as that series still manages to do to this day has to be something special.

[ReverseReverseFlash]

I have about 100 TPBs of Batman, action figures, lego sets, and movies laying around my house but I've never actually watched The Animated Series. Well actually I just started watching this series, about 5 episodes in. I've watched pretty much every other Batman cartoon but never the MAIN series. Sure I would catch an episode here and there but never watched it in any real order. I'm not sure why, i think it came on during a period of my life I was too COOL for cartoons.

First thought:
I have no idea what the big deal about this series is. I'm fighting to get through episodes at this point. Does it get better? I love Batman Beyond and rewatch it all the time but so far TAS has been a snooze fest, but again it is only the first 5 episodes so I figure there is a good chance it gets better. Right?

Second thought:
Im not a hugh Kevin Conroy fan to begin with (as he sounds nothing like Batman in my head) but he is painful to listen to in these first 5 episodes. Though he's not half bad in BB. Hopefully he gets better with the show goes on.

Please tell me it gets better.

I'm glad this forum existed so that you could give us your non-conformist hipster opinion. Go ahead and tell yourself that you're still too cool for cartoons. That's all I can advise.

[doctormistermaster]

Oh no worries, I didn't think you sounded negative. Hope I didn't sound antagonistic. I too prefer 2D animation when it is done really well, like the Clayface or Ra's al Ghul episodes, among others. The AKOM episodes look like crap, but the TMS ones still look stunning.

Yes, I think B:TAS is more mature in its own way than many of the other adaptations. In fact, I think some forms of entertainment aimed at younger audiences can be more mature than adult oriented outputs, especially when they're not as concerned with featuring excessive gore, sex, drug use and profanity. The pathos and tragedy of things like Annie being "killed" by Clayface, the Joker torturing Tim into insanity, the final fates of Freeze and Talia as seen in Batman Beyond, and Harley's endless cycle of abuse with the Joker had more of an impact on me than anything from the comics or live action films. I don't think I've ever seen another kids action cartoon be so downright nihilistic as this one was at times.

Great summation of why this series works so well for so many and great use of examples.