Doomsday is superb

[Lightning Rider]

I only read the "Death" part, which was really just a long fight, but this thread wants to make me read the rest. I think it definitely gets too dismissed as a stunt and people who actually read the issues praise it. Funeral for a Friend gets a lot of praise too.

[Grim Ghost]

I thought the death part was badly handled. It was just them punching each other mindlessly over and over and we don't see Superman use his powers in any sort of creative way.

However AFTER his death things got fun and I enjoyed the rise of the Supermen, Funeral and Return quite a bit. Maybe drop the black suited long hair Kal with a gun part, that didn't seem to quite fit at the time.

[Kuwagaton]

That drag out fight to the finish is sort of uncommon now, even with so many riffs. But back then it was unlike anything. In the decades leading up, Superman hadn't had so many challenges that he couldn't literally spin into submission. It's lost on a lot of people that the point was that this time, there was no other way. For all of the stories that presented another way, this was not one of them. To introduce anything else for the resolution would have been a cop out. It's a shame that the lead up stories aren't collected, because they did some solid foreshadowing, including an acknowledgment of the thoughts that followed his execution of the pocket universe prisoners.

Even back when I liked the story less, it struck me when Jimmy went, "I don't think I've ever seen the big guy so fired up before!" Lois knew exactly what it meant, and it gives me chills seeing Superman come to that fatal decision. It's a little contrived how Doomsday took the fight to Metropolis, but it was a significant beat because Superman would never give less than his life to protect what's real to him.

It's no mystery why that story still creates new fans.

[Lightning Rider]

Question, does the Omnibus collect the entire arc?

[Adekis]

That drag out fight to the finish is sort of uncommon now, even with so many riffs. But back then it was unlike anything. In the decades leading up, Superman hadn't had so many challenges that he couldn't literally spin into submission. It's lost on a lot of people that the point was that this time, there was no other way. For all of the stories that presented another way, this was not one of them. To introduce anything else for the resolution would have been a cop out. It's a shame that the lead up stories aren't collected, because they did some solid foreshadowing, including an acknowledgment of the thoughts that followed his execution of the pocket universe prisoners.

Even back when I liked the story less, it struck me when Jimmy went, "I don't think I've ever seen the big guy so fired up before!" Lois knew exactly what it meant, and it gives me chills seeing Superman come to that fatal decision. It's a little contrived how Doomsday took the fight to Metropolis, but it was a significant beat because Superman would never give less than his life to protect what's real to him.

It's no mystery why that story still creates new fans.

Huh- that's a really good point to make on the story. I've lived in a comics market so saturated with those kinds of fight-to-the-finish that it doesn't effect me as much as its supposed to, and I find myself wishing that Superman could find "another way" more often. To think that for the generation who first read Death at the time it was utterly new to see that kind of slugfest should've been an obvious thought, but it had never occurred to me. Thanks on that note! Helps me to appreciate the story a good bit better.

[Kuwagaton]

Thanks a lot. I didn't entirely go in order, but I read just about everything post crisis starting from last March or so, so a lot of things are either fresh or rediscovered. I didn't even own Death until recently, just borrowed the trade forever ago.

Bogotazo, the omnibus listing is a little deceptive. The first few issues listed, like MoS #17 and Action #683, aren't really collected. They just add the last page of those issues as they relate to Doomsday. But other than those and two related but ultimately irrelevant specials that have yet to be collected elsewhere, it covers everything else. It's about 1028 pages.

[BeefBourguignon]

Yes, this why using Doomsday for the second Superman movie was such a poor decision. Doomsday is the villain Superman underestimate at first because he already a veteran superhero used to overpowering or outsmarting all of his greatest foes previously. All of the tactics that had work for Superman are now obsolete. And there is not enough time for Superman to regroup or think of or execute a plan because Doomsday cannot be contained long enough to prevent him from killing innocents (Superman's main weakness). This make Superman force to clash with Doomsday physically where he's simply outmatched. As the fight goes on, Superman more and more comes to realize he's not going to survive. It is like a countdown to death. While it is what comes after the death issue that make the whole saga special to me, I think there's an "art" to the Doomsday fight that easy to overlook or be cynical about, like with the Max Landis video (which I could only stand watching a small part of that but I heard how unfair/ignorant its criticism was from fellow fans).

[Grim Ghost]

Yes, this why using Doomsday for the second Superman movie was such a poor decision. Doomsday is the villain Superman underestimate at first because he already a veteran superhero used to overpowering or outsmarting all of his greatest foes previously. All of the tactics that had work for Superman are now obsolete. And there is not enough time for Superman to regroup or think of or execute a plan because Doomsday cannot be contained long enough to prevent him from killing innocents (Superman's main weakness). This make Superman force to clash with Doomsday physically where he's simply outmatched. As the fight goes on, Superman more and more comes to realize he's not going to survive. It is like a countdown to death. While it is what comes after the death issue that make the whole saga special to me, I think there's an "art" to the Doomsday fight that easy to overlook or be cynical about, like with the Max Landis video (which I could only stand watching a small part of that but I heard how unfair/ignorant its criticism was from fellow fans).

I really have to disagree with you on this. There were lots of things Superman could have tried. Doomsday can't fly. Get him into space and he just floats. Knock him into the sun... I realize this isn't a "rumbles" style fight, but even at the time I was disappointed that Superman wasn't more creative about taking care of Doomsday. This is a great example of the whole "Superman fighting dumb" thing that a lot of people bring up. But as I said I enjoyed the aftermath quite a bit.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

I think it was Mike Carlin that described DOS as a fight scene not a story, and Funeral for a Friend as the story.

[Kuwagaton]

I really have to disagree with you on this. There were lots of things Superman could have tried. Doomsday can't fly. Get him into space and he just floats. Knock him into the sun... I realize this isn't a "rumbles" style fight, but even at the time I was disappointed that Superman wasn't more creative about taking care of Doomsday. This is a great example of the whole "Superman fighting dumb" thing that a lot of people bring up. But as I said I enjoyed the aftermath quite a bit.

Well for one thing, forcing Doomsday into a different venue wasn't an effective strategy. He was strong enough to push through long range tactics and getting up close put Superman at a disadvantage. Moving the fight to space wasn't feasible.

But in truth, they could have had a one page fight or a maxi seties where Superman tries dozens of methods... it still wouldn't have been the point. If victory means death, does he go through with it for real? If victory means killing, is he bold enough and why? Bringing these questions to the fore and not answering them, as they're normally not really answered anyway, makes for a by the numbers story.

[Celgress]

Doomsday's introduction was indeed a great story. It was as near to perfect as any comic book tale I've ever read.

[Clark_Kent]

I really have to disagree with you on this. There were lots of things Superman could have tried. Doomsday can't fly. Get him into space and he just floats. Knock him into the sun... I realize this isn't a "rumbles" style fight, but even at the time I was disappointed that Superman wasn't more creative about taking care of Doomsday. This is a great example of the whole "Superman fighting dumb" thing that a lot of people bring up. But as I said I enjoyed the aftermath quite a bit.

Superman tried taking him to space; it ended up with Superman getting speared in the side and bleeding like a stuck pig. Physically moving him out of Metropolis, or anywhere else for that matter, was a no-go. Doomsday also stood up to Superman's heat vision, Gardner's ring, and every other long range blast from that era's Justice League and came out of it laughing. There was nothing to do but punch away.

Superman didn't "fight dumb", he tried in the early issues to do different things (bury him in a seabed, use heat vision, take him to space)...the result was always the same.

[manduck37]

Question, does the Omnibus collect the entire arc?

Yes it does. You get Death, Funeral and Reign plus some extras. Well worth the price.

[Grim Ghost]

Superman tried taking him to space; it ended up with Superman getting speared in the side and bleeding like a stuck pig. Physically moving him out of Metropolis, or anywhere else for that matter, was a no-go. Doomsday also stood up to Superman's heat vision, Gardner's ring, and every other long range blast from that era's Justice League and came out of it laughing. There was nothing to do but punch away.

Superman didn't "fight dumb", he tried in the early issues to do different things (bury him in a seabed, use heat vision, take him to space)...the result was always the same.

Fair enough, I haven't read it since it came out. I have absolutely zero memory of him trying to take Doomsday into space but I take your word for it.

[Clark_Kent]

I can't find a scan of the next page, but it didn't go well for Clark.

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