Batman #21 Preview/Discussion

[Assam]

Slow night in Gotham? It was there to establish a reason for Flash to be delayed to coming to Bruce's aid.

Well, they really could have used anything for that. The scene was there for the "Isn't this supposed to be fun?" commentary.

[Caivu]

Slow night in Gotham? It was there to establish a reason for Flash to be delayed to coming to Bruce's aid.

I get that it was there to delay Barry and serve as a counterpoint to the fight in the Batcave. It's just that the initial situation of Batman watching it at all is a bit odd. It's not a huge deal, though.

Well, they really could have used anything for that. The scene was there for the "Isn't this supposed to be fun?" commentary.

A riot after a hockey game could've worked even better, I think. It would still allow for that "This was supposed to be fun, and now it's not" stuff, while giving Batman a more plausible reason to keep an eye on it, while also being a reflection of the Thawne fight.

[AcesX1X]

so is thawne dead?

[gwangung]

so is thawne dead?

It'll be undone within the story. (Barry fights Thawne next month in his own book).

[AcesX1X]

oh very cool. i am kind of glad they are doing this slow burn with saturn girl and the legion too. makes things more enticing

[Assam]

oh very cool. i am kind of glad they are doing this slow burn with saturn girl and the legion too. makes things more enticing

hehehe...as a Legion fanboy who hasn't had a good Legion story since Final Crisis, I'm not exactly in the camp excited for the slow burn, but rather in the camp wondering WHEN THE HELL IS THE NEW LEGION BOOK COMING?!!!

[UnderTheRedHood]

Its Ok. I kinda Expected More but cool
I Felt Bad About The Letter But I'm Sure Batman Can Put Back together whats a few pieces to World's Greatest Detective?
I hope we see more of thomas in this

[AcesX1X]

Its Ok. I kinda Expected More but cool
I Felt Bad About The Letter But I'm Sure Batman Can Put Back together whats a few pieces to World's Greatest Detective?
I hope we see more of thomas in this

well if he gets to have an adventure with his dad before this is over, i think bruce will love that more than some crummy old letter

[bat39]

On the whole, a great start to the story-arc.

I loved the Batman vs. Reverse-Flash fight, particularly the way Batman managed to find a way to 'outwit' Thawne with the 'stab him in the foot' gambit. I also liked Batman's assertion that he didn't need to win...he just needed to keep Thawne occupied long enough for Flash to show up. A more 'realistic' take on Batman fighting superhumans arguably.

I actually liked the hockey game thing. Since it was tied to Saturn Girl's plot, her 'predictions' coming true kinda spoke to the nature of time and the immutability of fate in some cases...both of which are themes that will no doubt be explored as this Rebirth story continues to pan out. I also liked that it was the reason for Barry to be late - not only from a narrative perspective, but also because stopping off for a few seconds to see if he can help a dying sportsman seems a very 'Barry Allen'-ish thing to do!

So...what I gather so far is that the button, or the temporal energies (linked to Manhattan?) that emanate from it somehow 'awakened' Eobard Thawne's pre-Flashpoint memories. He was drawn to the button somehow, hence he invaded the cave and grabbed the button. But then he was transported somewhere (Mars?) and when he returned, he was burnt by Manhattan's blue energies (in a manner somewhat reminiscent of Flash's death in COIE).

The button's energies also somehow presented an echo of Flashpoint (namely, the Thomas Wayne Batman). We don't know if it was actually Flashpoint Batman somehow, or a hallucination of Bruce's triggered by the button, or if proximity to the letter had something to do with it. The button also reacted to Psycho Pirate's mask (Psycho Pirate being soeone who traditionally has been able to access memories of erased timelines).

Could the button somehow bring back Jay Garrick (who I think might be making an appearance in this arc, and who has been teased in the Flash series)? And what exactly will happen to Thawne?

[Heinrich Mahler]

Twice in the same week.

There are way too much parallelisms between this issue and Watchmen just like happened the same with Trinity 8 and Infinite Crisis 1.

First, it is very obvious by the iconic nine panel grid of Watchmen that is used until the end of the issue, after the prelude with Saturn Girl, that Dr. Manhattan is assuming control of reality, shaping it.
All the issue since the apparition of Eobard is a homage to last moments of the presumed real button owner, the Comedian. All the beats of the flashback of Comedian murder by Ozymandias and the investigation of Rorschach of the button are relieved by Batman and Eobard.

1. Unexpected apparition of a ally. (Batman though it was Barry, the Comedian saw Ozymandias)
2. Punch in the face (one to Eddie Blake, 11 to Bruce)
3. A destroyed paper (the burned map for Blake/ the letter for Bruce and Eobard also mentioned that Thomas burned just before destroying the letter)
4. Bruce in the floor in the exact same position of Blake.
5. Bruce crashed through the monitor just like Eddie was thrown through the window.
6. The button is picked by someone intrigued by it's mistery (Rorschach /Eobard)
7. That is killed by Dr. Manhattan with his powers.

And then we have at the same time that Batman is fighting the fist fight between players and in Watchmen the fist fight between the lesbian couple and all the street comotion at the same time Veight is giving us the final flashback to the Comedian's death before the clock reaching 00 /12.

Of course it seems decompressed. The original version of this event ocurred in ... 12 panels.

This is certainly more an idea of Geoff Johns, and King only had to script the issue.
So, don't blame him... it was actually very well executed, if you know what you need to see.

[HsssH]

So...what I gather so far is that the button, or the temporal energies (linked to Manhattan?) that emanate from it somehow 'awakened' Eobard Thawne's pre-Flashpoint memories. He was drawn to the button somehow, hence he invaded the cave and grabbed the button. But then he was transported somewhere (Mars?) and when he returned, he was burnt by Manhattan's blue energies (in a manner somewhat reminiscent of Flash's death in COIE).

I'm not well versed on Thawne, but I thought that these energies resurrected version of his that was killed by Thomas in Flashpoint. Or is it always same Thawne?

All in all really strong start.

[Godlike13]

This was especially dark. Good though, interesting.

[bat39]

I'm not well versed on Thawne, but I thought that these energies resurrected version of his that was killed by Thomas in Flashpoint. Or is it always same Thawne?

All in all really strong start.

From what I understand, it re-awakened the memories of the New 52/Rebirth version of Thawne.

Much like how Wally retained some pre-Flashpoint memories due to the Speed Force.

[Clark_Kent]

Twice in the same week.

There are way too much parallelisms between this issue and Watchmen just like happened the same with Trinity 8 and Infinite Crisis 1.

First, it is very obvious by the iconic nine panel grid of Watchmen that is used until the end of the issue, after the prelude with Saturn Girl, that Dr. Manhattan is assuming control of reality, shaping it.
All the issue since the apparition of Eobard is a homage to last moments of the presumed real button owner, the Comedian. All the beats of the flashback of Comedian murder by Ozymandias and the investigation of Rorschach of the button are relieved by Batman and Eobard.

1. Unexpected apparition of a ally. (Batman though it was Barry, the Comedian saw Ozymandias)
2. Punch in the face (one to Eddie Blake, 11 to Bruce)
3. A destroyed paper (the burned map for Blake/ the letter for Bruce and Eobard also mentioned that Thomas burned just before destroying the letter)
4. Bruce in the floor in the exact same position of Blake.
5. Bruce crashed through the monitor just like Eddie was thrown through the window.
6. The button is picked by someone intrigued by it's mistery (Rorschach /Eobard)
7. That is killed by Dr. Manhattan with his powers.

And then we have at the same time that Batman is fighting the fist fight between players and in Watchmen the fist fight between the lesbian couple and all the street comotion at the same time Veight is giving us the final flashback to the Comedian's death before the clock reaching 00 /12.

Of course it seems decompressed. The original version of this event ocurred in ... 12 panels.

This is certainly more an idea of Geoff Johns, and King only had to script the issue.
So, don't blame him... it was actually very well executed, if you know what you need to see.

This is actually really interesting. I've read Watchmen, of course, and while reading your post I could see the parallel's in my mind, but it's something that completely went unnoticed by me during my first read. When I get home, I just might have to pull out Watchmen & compare.

Thanks for posting that.

[Frontier]

This was especially dark.

Boy was it. I mean we had:

- Saturn Girl still locked up in Arkham and going crazy because there's seemingly nothing anyone can do to save that guy or the Legion.

- A hockey game in Gotham that devolves into one player murdering the other in a fight.

- Reverse-Flash beating the tar out of Batman and tearing up his memento of Flashpoint Thomas Wayne.

- Batman's plan for Flash to show up to rescue him from Thawne fails because Barry tried to save the player, making him late for their meeting, and the player still ended up dead anyways.

- Thawne apparently encountering Manhattan, "god," and getting vaporized as a result.

Ain't comics fun ?

From what I understand, it re-awakened the memories of the New 52/Rebirth version of Thawne.

Much like how Wally retained some pre-Flashpoint memories due to the Speed Force.

Yeah, New 52 Thawne basically transformed (or was Rebirthed) into Post-Crisis Reverse-Flash, complete with his memories and classic costume back.

The odd thing is that he was hit with blue lightning when it happened, which seems to be a sign of Manhattan's interference, whereas here Thawne seems to encounter Manhattan and get vaporized...